News & Discussion: Public Transport Contracts, Service & Policy

[duke]

I have been accepted for the trial but I have not collected the card yet.

The process to get on it is

- You have to be on a route that is fully fitted out with the new ticket machines
- People then give out fliers at eligible stops. They ask if you travel 3 or more times a week and if you are willing to provide feedback
- You then have to SMS a number with your name, email address and bus route
- They then call you and do a 10 min survey

If you pass the questions they then provide more information. You then have to wait until another SMS is sent saying you can go pick up the card.

The card is free and comes with $5 credit "as a thank you" for doing the trial.
At the moment there are only a few places around which do recharges of the card. One is the Adelaide Metro center in the city. There are about 4 other locations around various suburbs from memory.
In the future everyone will be able to recharge online.

I think she said there is a limit of $1,000 on the card.
I wonder what sort of security they have for cancelling cards if people start loading hundreds of $$.

[Vee]

Yes, Shuz, real time information on public transport for commuters is a 'no brainer'. It is an expectation in our busy, technology-rich, connected world. So glad Adelaide is joining the club.

A great choice by the government to open up an API and let developers develop their own systems based upon the data.

I suspect this is all possible because they are purchasing the off-the-shelf Atlas system. What was melbourne thinking in developing myki? We now have a situation where Perth, Adelaid and Brisbane have rolled out smartcard systems with little expense and Sydney and Melbourne have been catastrophic failures with an order of magnitude more expense.

Agree with muzzamo's comments above on the government's open approach to this. Data such as needed here should not be locked away or only made available for mega dollars. There has been a big change in thinking by state governments in recent years with so called 'Web2.0' approaches gaining favour.

And an off-the-shelf 'tried and trusted' smartcard system makes so much sense. What was Melbourne thinking in their expensive, trouble plagued, long drawn out timeline experiment in going it alone with Myki?

On another matter, any thoughts on the just announced Myki "tourist/visitor pack" deal - $14 is not cheap for a day trip, especially if you are a short term visitor eg for a footy match and not interested in heading out to various tourist attractions. (comes with $8 pre-loaded for travel)
How are we likely to handle short term users and provide for their P/T needs? This Victorian deal sounds silly.

[Tonsley213]

The train station is a place to recharge, and when they went through the list with me there was a lot of places to recharge.

[PeFe]

Next time I go to Melbourne I will pre-order a Myki card online so when I get off the plane and want to travel into the city I can avoid the $17 Skybus fare. Instead use your Myki to catch SmartBus 901 from Melbourne (Tullamarine) Aiport to Broadmeadows Train Station to access the train network. ($5.50 and 3 hours allowed to travel to your destination) This is a far better option for tourists arriving at Melb Airport than the "tourist" card pre-loaded with $8 that has to be used in one day and discounts to attractions that you are not necessarliy interested in.

[The Scooter Guy]

Transport Services Minister Chloe Fox and Adelaide City Council Lord Mayor Stpehen Yarwood put out the following release this morning:


PRIORITY BUS LANES FOR CURRIE AND GRENFELL STREETS

Dedicated bus lanes will be established on Currie and Grenfell Streets and East Terrace by July to
improve bus movement in the city.

Transport Services Minister Chlo? Fox said a Terrace to Terrace bus corridor for the CBD was integral
to improving the reliability of bus services across Adelaide.

“There are a lot of projects going on in Adelaide, but with that welcome growth, there comes increased
congestion, especially for buses. Priority bus lanes will help to reduce the impact of that congestion on
bus commuters,” she said.

“This decision also reflects our vision to create a more vibrant, pedestrian and cycling-friendly city,
supported by an efficient public transport system.
“We’ll be financing these bus lanes from existing resources, given that we have imposed fee reductions
on bus contractors of more than $250,000 in the past six months.”
Dedicated bus lanes will operate from 7am to 7pm, Monday to Friday, in both directions – along the
length of Currie and Grenfell Streets and along East Terrace between Grenfell Street and North
Terrace.
One lane will be retained in each direction for cars with drivers able to cross bus lanes to make turns.
It will require the closure of median openings, restricting some right turn and U-turn movements.
To enhance the operation of the new bus lanes, Adelaide City Council will investigate adjustments to
on-street parking, particularly to standardise the operating times of parking restrictions.
Adelaide Lord Mayor Stephen Yarwood said the creation of priority bus lanes falls in line with the
council’s recently released Integrated Movement Strategy.
“In conjunction with the State Government we are making it much easier to get around, but we have to
complement that with initiatives that make it easier to get into the city in the first place,” he said.
Between now and the scheduled start of operations in early July, the Department will work with a range
of stakeholders to address any issues associated with the project.

[BillD]

Here's Flexity 114 on its way to Adelaide, parked at Tailem Bend just before sunset on Friday the 25th of May 2012. Unlike previous deliveries, they didn't press on to the Mt Barker truck stop.

Delivery should be at the Entertainment Centre in the small hours of Saturday.

[ChillyPhilly]

I applied for the trial a few days ago. It'll be good once the system is up and running, away from the archaic Crouzet system we've been stuck with for years and years now.

[mattblack]

How many more trams do we have coming?

[mutt]

why are they buying more trams? are they sending the nice looking spanish ones back?

[BillD]

How many more trams do we have coming?

One more - Flexity 115 in a few weeks.

[monotonehell]

why are they buying more trams? are they sending the nice looking spanish ones back?

With mutt on this point, sort of.

As a passenger, I prefer the ex-Spain trams. They are much more comfortable. Their interior is human shaped, unlike the Flexitys in which none of the space is designed for most people.

Now the metal-wheeled members amongst us will bang on about how the Amigos will fall off the tracks or some gunzel logic like that. But I'm looking at this from someone who uses the interior, not someone who gets excited over grease nipples.


(And no, mutt we are keeping both fleets)

[rubberman]

I guess the problem with the Citadis (and to a slightly lesser extent) the Flexitys is that they are basically single truckers. Modern looking single truckers I will grant you, but single truckers.

What that means is that they are necessarily slower than equivalent sized bogie cars, otherwise they do what all bibs and bubs do, that is buck and sway and cause corrugations and wear on the track. You get a good ride as long as you have all day to get somewhere.

To illustrate where Adelaide has gone with this:

In 1917, the train (yep, that's right, the Thomas the Tank Engine) took 25 minutes to get from South Terrace to Glenelg. Today our loverly Citadis and Flexitys manage it in, oh, 27 minutes - same distance.

Perhaps it is unfair to compare the modern trams' performance with that of steam engines of the 1880s, so let's look at the H Cars - I think the patents for the controls on those cars was about 1899 or thereabouts. Glenelg to North Terrace was 29 minutes pre 1955. Flexity and Citadis? 38 Minutes. (I would point out that in those days King William St had a lot more trams clogging the way, there were no boom gates at intersections, or grade separation at South Road either).

Go to a city where they really know how to run trams, and get on a real modern tram like the Skoda 15T and it is like chalk and cheese. What's more, the Skoda 15T is cheaper at $3.5m per unit compared to $6m for the Citadis. Sort of like paying $60000 for a Yaris.

Put it another way, something like the Skoda 15T would probably cut a minute or three off the H car times. It is not just a matter of admiration of grease nipples or fancy technology, it is a matter of cutting 25-30% off travel time. If steam trains and trams with technology dating from the late 1800s can outpace the Citadis and Flexitys I wonder that we bothered to get rid of the H cars. In the Citadis, Adelaide has bought a Yaris for the price of a Lexus. Beautiful plumage though Guvnor.

Actually, if you like the interior of the Citadis, you would probably also like the interior of the Skoda 15T 'Forcity'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%A0koda_15_T
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKOxAwEh ... re=related

[mutt]

i liked the interior of the H class. comfortable seats and more of them.

its all a game of corporate favours for kickbacks though, this is how the world works. efficiency and value for money, when its taxpayers dollars we're talking about takes a back seat to other priorities.

[rubberman]

Mutt, I agree that the H cars were nice inside. The only problem was that they were hard to get into, not only for wheelchairs, but also for anyone that had a problem climbing the steps. However, there was also the problem that the equipment was getting to be 80 years old. Way past economic repair and maintenance - nobody was making PC5L2 parts anymore for the controllers for example.

Having said that, rather than buy the Citadis for $6m a pop, I can't see why they didn't keep the H cars going for another few years. That would have meant they could either have standardised on Flexitys or had another 9 or 10 Skoda (better tram lower price) bypassing the Citadis and converting the second quota of Flexity into a Skoda order (Or Pragoimex). Even if they had to modify the tram stops in the city to make that happen, the price savings would make that easily feasible.

Here is a link to the Pragoimex (just in case anyone thinks I am just a Skoda fan). http://www.pragoimex.cz/en/

As to your comment about the corporate favours for kickbacks, I have to say that whenever there is a choice between conspiracy or just dumb ignorance to explain something gone wrong, I always vote for the dumb ignorance option.

If you look at the signalling that the Glenelg line has to put up with (its a bit like a railway set up), it is clear that nobody looked at the German BOSTRAB regulations which would have revealed that such signalling was not required in our case. Similarly, nobody that has ridden a tram in Prague or Warsaw would believe that it is possible to run a system as slowly as Adelaide does - and for what reason I cannot imagine. Also, as I mentioned above, the stops would have to have been modified to allow the H cars to work in traffic (other than as tourist cars). However, someone in the design of those stops never thought to design them so that they could be extended - so it would be a costly exercise and disruptive (nonetheless you can spend a lot of money and still have plenty of change with the money saved had the Citadis not been purchased). Again, overseas experience would have informed a better stop design. I am sure there was no kickback involved, after all it would just have been a different layout of stops.

[Hooligan]

I guess the problem with the Citadis (and to a slightly lesser extent) the Flexitys is that they are basically single truckers. Modern looking single truckers I will grant you, but single truckers.

What that means is that they are necessarily slower than equivalent sized bogie cars, otherwise they do what all bibs and bubs do, that is buck and sway and cause corrugations and wear on the track. You get a good ride as long as you have all day to get somewhere.

To illustrate where Adelaide has gone with this:

In 1917, the train (yep, that's right, the Thomas the Tank Engine) took 25 minutes to get from South Terrace to Glenelg. Today our loverly Citadis and Flexitys manage it in, oh, 27 minutes - same distance.

Perhaps it is unfair to compare the modern trams' performance with that of steam engines of the 1880s, so let's look at the H Cars - I think the patents for the controls on those cars was about 1899 or thereabouts. Glenelg to North Terrace was 29 minutes pre 1955. Flexity and Citadis? 38 Minutes. (I would point out that in those days King William St had a lot more trams clogging the way, there were no boom gates at intersections, or grade separation at South Road either).

Go to a city where they really know how to run trams, and get on a real modern tram like the Skoda 15T and it is like chalk and cheese. What's more, the Skoda 15T is cheaper at $3.5m per unit compared to $6m for the Citadis. Sort of like paying $60000 for a Yaris.

Put it another way, something like the Skoda 15T would probably cut a minute or three off the H car times. It is not just a matter of admiration of grease nipples or fancy technology, it is a matter of cutting 25-30% off travel time. If steam trains and trams with technology dating from the late 1800s can outpace the Citadis and Flexitys I wonder that we bothered to get rid of the H cars. In the Citadis, Adelaide has bought a Yaris for the price of a Lexus. Beautiful plumage though Guvnor.

Actually, if you like the interior of the Citadis, you would probably also like the interior of the Skoda 15T 'Forcity'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%A0koda_15_T
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKOxAwEh ... re=related

i'm guessing you are someone who gets excited over grease nipples?