News & Discussion: Regional Transport

[Heardy_101]

Mitch, every thing is Cool Bananas

I have been watching the Vics and there fast train projects, they are lucky because it's a small State and they have some very dense populate country towns and that helps, especially if they are marginal seat

No worries Politics - enough said I think

SA does plan ahead more that a four year term now, I've just finish reading the 30 year plan that was released last year, although there is no regional rail issue in it there is mention of Concordia, Roseworthy and Aldinga extensions, and that is better than nothing.

Of course I personally think Aldinga is a stretch considering the cost it incur.

Roseworthy could happen now if they really wanted it to, or heck even Kapunda. A Roseworthy service could be simply an extension of the current Gawler service (not to be confused with a Gawler Central service ). A Kapunda run could be comparable to the current Frankston - Stony Point line - a shuttle service that connects with the main suburban line. I could also go as far as saying another station could be built between Gawler and Roseworthy.

The regional rail network will survive or will be rebuilt if there is significant demand for that corridor by the mining company's, i just read recently that the Snowtown Wallaroo line or part of it may/could be used to transport the minerals from the Yunta/Maldorky area, and I hope that happens, it would have to be rebuilt because the rail is not heavier enough, but the main thing is the corridor is there and protected for future use.

From what I have heard from a GWA "higher up" that came into my work a while back, there was a $2m feasibility study being done, I have tried to look into it more but haven't found any more info since. However the Kadina - Wallaroo section has been ripped up by the council and converted to a (wait for it) bike path . From what I here though, the current Snowtown - Bute section will be as normal, then a new line will deviate from the original corridor just out of Kadina to a new port North (???) of Wallaroo.

One success for regional rail that people never seem to mention is the Balco intermodal on the old broad gauge corridor at Bowman's that is a little gem.

Indeed. They have recently expanded their facility there, and I won't be surprised to see an extra rail service added as well.

I'm also surprised there isn't a connection to the similar facility at Balaklava (can't remember the name of the company), but it too has recently completed an upgrade/expansion of the facility and I think it is near the corridor just outside of Balaklava heading towards Owen. I might have to have a look next time I head that way.

[Heardy_101]

Also before I forget, here are some references:

http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j ... 74%2cd.aGc

That is in regards to Chris Hall and AN, it is a Newsletter from 2007.

Also, in regards to the lease agreement between GWA and the SA Govt, Dennis Hood from Family First (?) , through the FOI Act, originally obtained several parts of the Lease Agreement in 2003 - 2004, which was when the Nurioopta RS was demolished I think. Further excerpts were obtained by Robert Brokenshire I think a few years later. I believe Dan van Holst Pellekaan may be getting the whole Lease Agreement this time around.

[train driver]

Also before I forget, here are some references:

http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j ... 74%2cd.aGc

That is in regards to Chris Hall and AN, it is a Newsletter from 2007.

Also, in regards to the lease agreement between GWA and the SA Govt, Dennis Hood from Family First (?) , through the FOI Act, originally obtained several parts of the Lease Agreement in 2003 - 2004, which was when the Nurioopta RS was demolished I think. Further excerpts were obtained by Robert Brokenshire I think a few years later. I believe Dan van Holst Pellekaan may be getting the whole Lease Agreement this time around.

I read it right through about a decade ago when Olsen was Premier, and if I remember correctly from what I read and remember they are complying with it.

[train driver]

From what I have heard from a GWA "higher up" that came into my work a while back, there was a $2m feasibility study being done, I have tried to look into it more but haven't found any more info since. However the Kadina - Wallaroo section has been ripped up by the council and converted to a (wait for it) bike path . From what I here though, the current Snowtown - Bute section will be as normal, then a new line will deviate from the original corridor just out of Kadina to a new port North (???) of Wallaroo.

The government owns the Wallaroo corridor and I suppose they knew the rail wasn't going to be any good for future rail use because it was not heavier enough and the chance that the EPA would allow a train through the middle of Wallaroo was remote they would shift it to help Steamranger with there track maintainance, they own the Steamranger track as well.

[Heardy_101]

I read it right through about a decade ago when Olsen was Premier, and if I remember correctly from what I read and remember they are complying with it.

Is there any evidence to suggest this though?

Currently, all the evidence is pointing the other way. The lines, and the infrastructure, are not in a "good and clean condition", they are being left to rot. Any stations that are not privately owned are being left to rot. Saddleworth and Nuriootpa are evidence of this. When they were demolished, there were local groups trying to restore them either through Government grants or local funding. Sounds a bit strange that they were demolished when GWA wouldn't have needed to spend money on them themselves, especially in the case of Saddleworth which, from what the locals told me, "vanished into thin air". The Station was virtually demolished overnight with no evidence of it left behind. I, along with some associates of mine, are still in the process of trying to find out who carried out the demolition and, most importantly, why, especially given that, like Nuriootpa, the locals would have been the ones doing the work, not GWA or the Government. Very strange. Given that there have been recent calls and attempts to have Tarlee restored, I am very worried that Tarlee will see a similar fate.

GWA are also supposed to run a LE Loco along the lines once every 12 months, in order to keep the lines in their possession. This is not the case as not even a section car or Hi-Rail have been seen along the lines since at least 2007 when the last Roseworthy Grain was run. This was also included in the lease agreement as far as I know. There is also a mention of "maintaining the line in a dormant condition" as I was told on my Facebook page, however there is no evidence to suggest this is true and even if it is, the line isn't even been maintained in such condition either.

[claybro]

Where did country coucils get on to this bike path idea? Any time I have driven along any of the old country lines, I have not seen one cyclist on the tracks...not a single one! Seems if they put as much effort into at least maintaining the lines for trains ie, weed removal or run a train along the line themselves every so often, they might attract some people to their towns for one off events.Bike paths do not add to our gross domestic product, they do not manufacture or export anything and at best might produce a few nights at the local B&B. As for ripping up the lines, who is authorising this?? and who is getting the money from the scrap??? We as South Australians paid for these lines many years back afterall.

[train driver]

I read it right through about a decade ago when Olsen was Premier, and if I remember correctly from what I read and remember they are complying with it.

Is there any evidence to suggest this though?

Currently, all the evidence is pointing the other way. The lines, and the infrastructure, are not in a "good and clean condition", they are being left to rot. Any stations that are not privately owned are being left to rot. Saddleworth and Nuriootpa are evidence of this. When they were demolished, there were local groups trying to restore them either through Government grants or local funding. Sounds a bit strange that they were demolished when GWA wouldn't have needed to spend money on them themselves, especially in the case of Saddleworth which, from what the locals told me, "vanished into thin air". The Station was virtually demolished overnight with no evidence of it left behind. I, along with some associates of mine, are still in the process of trying to find out who carried out the demolition and, most importantly, why, especially given that, like Nuriootpa, the locals would have been the ones doing the work, not GWA or the Government. Very strange. Given that there have been recent calls and attempts to have Tarlee restored, I am very worried that Tarlee will see a similar fate.

The SA Gov (SAG) has not owned any of those rail assets since the SAR was sold around 1978, when they were sold to the Com Wealth Gov (CWG) who sold them to ASR now GWA.

The SAG only owns the land/dirt which the rail corridor sits in and the buildings sit on, I think the same apply's to Adelaide & Parafield airports, from that you can see it's like owning a house, it's yours and you can virtually do what you like with it subject to certain law, example heritage and in most case the GWA assests are not State heritage listed, some are local but not State.

GWA are also supposed to run a LE Loco along the lines once every 12 months, in order to keep the lines in their possession. This is not the case as not even a section car or Hi-Rail have been seen along the lines since at least 2007 when the last Roseworthy Grain was run. This was also included in the lease agreement as far as I know. There is also a mention of "maintaining the line in a dormant condition" as I was told on my Facebook page, however there is no evidence to suggest this is true and even if it is, the line isn't even been maintained in such condition either.

[i]GWA DOES NOT have to run a loco on the rail lines like you say, that is a MYTH, the line are kept in something like a dormant condition scenario. If the lines were classed as operational, then what you say is mostly correct.
[/i]
Sorry for not supporting you on all your points, I'm only trying to keep you from being misled by past incorrect info that is circulation out there in cyber space.

[train driver]

Where did country coucils get on to this bike path idea? Any time I have driven along any of the old country lines, I have not seen one cyclist on the tracks...not a single one! Seems if they put as much effort into at least maintaining the lines for trains ie, weed removal or run a train along the line themselves every so often, they might attract some people to their towns for one off events.Bike paths do not add to our gross domestic product, they do not manufacture or export anything and at best might produce a few nights at the local B&B. As for ripping up the lines, who is authorising this?? and who is getting the money from the scrap??? We as South Australians paid for these lines many years back afterall.

I understand that at this stage there is one between Nuriootpa -Angaston, possibly one in part of the corridor at Kapunda and that one going to be developed between Kadina - Wallaroo. The rail which has been removed has gone to Steamranger to help maintain there old track, nothing wrong with that because we as tax payers own that line.

It's a good idea I think, the Gov introduced it to protects the rail corridor that the State own, you have to remember that not all former rail corridors have track on them and where there is track, in most cases it's stuffed, the sleepers are rooted and the rail is not heavier enough for freight trains of today standards with 23-25 ton axle loads.

The bike track between Nuri & Angaston adds significant tourist spending $$$ value in to those areas, ask the locals like I have, they are rapped with the concept and reckon after the fuss made by a few has died down it was a great outcome.

[claybro]

All well and good to have a bike track preserving the alignment. however try getting trains back on those lines in 20 years after locals have become used to the quiet of bike trails. As for the significant income????? It is the dismantling of this infastructure that has slowly but surely made regional areas unable to compete in manufactured goods and now causes major delays in getting grain to port, the income from bike enthusiasts pales in to insignificance compared to the extra cost bourne from inefficiency. How many trucks does it take to replace 1 grain train? f the old rail is not heavy enough for modern trains, well that would surely be a reason to upgrade it, with australian steel, manufactured in SA on concrete also manufactured in SA from raw materials, mined in SA rather than rip it all up and not replace it. This could easily be financed by a fuel levy that forces trucks/buses and private motorists to fund the real cost of the roads and freeing up some money for rail, getting some trucks off the road, and therefor reducing the required maintenance of the roads.
Again, if trucks and buses were forced to compete on a level playing field, road transport would not be such a financially easy option. Meanwhile our roads, particularly in the Mallee and mid North are falling to bits.

[Heardy_101]

Who gets the scrap? Good question.

I know that SteamRanger got the tracks from Wallaroo - Kadina, but who got the tracks from Nuriootpa - Angaston?

It is worth noting that GWA/ARG are also responsible for ripping up the lines from Kapunda - Eudunda - Robertstown, conveniently after a very large company wanted to set up shop in Eudunda and wanted to utilise Rail.

[train driver]

Who gets the scrap? Good question.

I know that SteamRanger got the tracks from Wallaroo - Kadina, but who got the tracks from Nuriootpa - Angaston?

GWA owned the rail, apparently you haven't read what I said previously, GWA owned the infrastructure on the Nuri - Angaston line and they have stored the rail for using elsewhere within their system.

It is worth noting that GWA/ARG are also responsible for ripping up the lines from Kapunda - Eudunda - Robertstown, conveniently after a very large company wanted to set up shop in Eudunda and wanted to utilise Rail.

I would say that is rubbish, another MYTH.

[train driver]

All well and good to have a bike track preserving the alignment. however try getting trains back on those lines in 20 years after locals have become used to the quiet of bike trails.

I understand that there is a clause in the lease with council that clearly state if the govt require the corridor council has to release it back.

As for the significant income????? It is the dismantling of this infastructure that has slowly but surely made regional areas unable to compete in manufactured goods and now causes major delays in getting grain to port, the income from bike enthusiasts pales in to insignificance compared to the extra cost bourne from inefficiency. How many trucks does it take to replace 1 grain train? f the old rail is not heavy enough for modern trains, well that would surely be a reason to upgrade it, with australian steel, manufactured in SA on concrete also manufactured in SA from raw materials, mined in SA rather than rip it all up and not replace it. This could easily be financed by a fuel levy that forces trucks/buses and private motorists to fund the real cost of the roads and freeing up some money for rail, getting some trucks off the road, and therefor reducing the required maintenance of the roads.

I said before the economics don't stack up -- who would want to invest $40-60m to get a rail line up to scrach for 40,000 tons of grain a year, that would be similar to Greece's economic trouble, even a mad man wouldn't do that

Again, if trucks and buses were forced to compete on a level playing field, road transport would not be such a financially easy option. Meanwhile our roads, particularly in the Mallee and mid North are falling to bits.

I don't disagree with a level playing field or increasing the fuel levy to pay for it, but the Australian people will not cop that so that idea is stuffed to.

[claybro]

Who said it only has to be for grain? I only used grain as an example as it is most recently carried by rail on regional lines. Look at the SE for example. Logs, grapes/wine, wood pulp, dairy, farm machinery, manufactured goods, bulk mulch and yes grain. As the city of Mt Gambier is setting itself up as a retirement town advertising to retirees to re-settle in the Mount, there may also be alot of retirees travelling by train and relatives visa versa rather than a 7 hour bus trip or a $200 flight. I would rather put my kids on a train then pay over $200 a piece for flights to visit nana (they do this twice a year). I would not send them on the bus and Nanna will neither drive to Adelaide, or take the bus and doesnt like the small planes. If decent regional lines where available, then our near country towns could support all sorts of industry and serve an expanding population. I think what you will find, is Australians will not continue to cop the state of our roads, if road transport grows in the amount expected, the roads will not cope. The 40-60 mil you mention for upgrading a track does not fund much of a road either, and all the while, we have cyclists using our rail coridors, on shiny new bike tracks.

[skyliner]

The last three pages have provided an extremely interesting read! Perhaps some further factual input might be appreciated and not cause anyone to get too agitated. This again uses Mount Gambier.-

In the 1950's, when the population was only 10000, rail traffic to MG included one large freight train in (every morning - to be dissected in the goods yards and then reformed for a second freight train back to Adelaide. There was also a daily incoming passenger train of up to 12 passenger vehicles travelling overnight and a return train each day. I realize accessability to cars has greatly increased since then, but the fact remains that a MUCH smaller plac e could support a service with said frequencies.

Since those days, there has been a major population increase and and a huge increase in the forests as well as a substantial increase in secondary industry. Coupled with this has also been Mr Scott. But I beleive the potential is there to make rail work - esp with a link to Vic.- this, in addition to what others have said to this point.

[Heardy_101]

I believe there is a proposal for the SE from a Private Company that also intends to connect to Heywood and Portland as well as the Penola Mill hoo-ha, but haven't heard much about it. Then again it usually pops up every few months, so I'd fathom a guess it's due to re-appear in the press soon considering it has been 6 months since the last report