News & Discussion: Regional Transport

[claybro]

yes I now understand.

[Heardy_101]

Just out of interest, the I have heard on the grapevines that the Redhen Railcars at Riverton are being scrapped.

[Heardy_101]

Been a while....(again).

However with a State Election coming around the corner (it's in March, so less than six months) it's time to ramp things up again to try and get some support and/or answers from local MPs and candidates.

I will provide a running commentary of the last month or so, highlighting what Labor is proposing in regards to Public Transport in this state, even though most of the focus is in Adelaide itself (more on that later).

In my personal opinion, and despite the fact that I have openly criticised the Labor Party, but this plan is fantastic for SA. One of the major parts includes rebuilding most of the Tram Network to it's once former glory, and also having interstate trains (eg The Ghan, Indian Pacific) terminate at the Adelaide Railway Station as opposed to leaving/entering Keswick (which, to be frank, is impractical and with no connecting services of any use, one may as well hop off at Greenfields).

It is such a shame that rather try and come up with a similar plan, or even constructively criticise Labor's plan, or heck, even agree with it, the SA Liberals would rather attack it without, as I just said, any plan of their own to back up their argument.

The other main disappointing thing is that again, Regional SA misses out. As I understand it there are plans from both parties to upgrade regional roads and highways (these include Port Wakefield Road/Augusta Highway/Highway One, the Barrier Highway and Dukes Highway) however no mention of improving public transport for Regional South Australians. This isn't just about rail, either, but also includes coach services as well.

I will be writing a series of letters - nothing radical as such - that highlight the need for better access and connections to Public Transport as well as improving current services. I will also highlight which roads need improving the most. This will be biased to the Mid North, as I reside in the Mid North and have little knowledge of any other regional areas such as the Hills (although I have lived down there in the past as well) and the South East (eg Mount Gambier). So if anyone from any other regional area, or anyone in general, would like to chip in, please feel free to do so by contacting me on here or directly (I can be found on Facebook).

[MessiahAndrw]

One of the major parts includes rebuilding most of the Tram Network to it's once former glory, and also having interstate trains (eg The Ghan, Indian Pacific) terminate at the Adelaide Railway Station as opposed to leaving/entering Keswick

This is fantastic! The appeal of train travel (I could see it used seriously for Adelaide<->Melbourne travel) is that it drops you off right in the CBD, within walking distance of your hotel.

I would love to see the tram network mostly restored;

[Heardy_101]

Currently myself and a rail associate of mine are putting together documentation and evidence and intend to publish such in the push for Country Rail in South Australia.

Currently the title of this documentation is "Regional Railway Development Investigation".

The title comes from a little side-project of mine which was called the Regional Rail Development. It was basically a bunch of ideas put into documentation form and it sat there for a while, until now. It wasn't a Consortium or a scam or a whatever it's completely unrelated, I've actually had it sitting around on my USB since Year 11 or 12 and lost interest in it until recently, mainly because I was in one of those moods where I simply could not be bothered.

The Development part refers to this, as well as a now wider collective group of ideas and documentation in relation to the push for regional rail, which also includes the various petitions and surveys that have been conducted in the past and still are being conducted to this very day. A lot of the latter stuff has only been added recently since I've become involved with the push, while most of the ideas are either rehashed ones which you've probably heard from me before, or others, but in a more realistic form so as to speak.

The Investigation refers to the investigations that are also being conducted about why regional rail in this state was systematically shut down, the lies that were told to make the public believe it was unviable, as well as the continued systematic shut down and removal of country lines by rail operator Genesee & Wyoming Australia, including the illegal demolition of local rail infrastructures, some of which were HERITAGE listed.

Again, I wasn't aware of half the crap that was happening when I was at School, and didn't find out a lot of it or read the evidence. Most of this is still available online, but some that was online has actually been taken down very recently and can't be traced.

Anyway, feel free to contribute, either on this thread or PM me or whatever.

[MessiahAndrw]

Thanks for the update. I hope you know a lot of us are supporting you wholeheartedly and want to see regional rail in our great state.

[[Shuz]]

I "support" the idea, but put quite simply it's just not viable in South Australia. We don't have lots of big regional centres (25,000+ people) like QLD, NSW and VIC do, within close proximity to the major capital city to even make it feasible. I think the best we can realistically push for is services to Mount Barker.

If you really want to make regional rail viable, how about putting in a submission suggesting ideas as to how to make regional centres like Victor Harbor, Murray Bridge and the Barossa more attractive for people to live in. And then, with that add the regional rail component to it to further support the submission.

[Waewick]

I "support" the idea, but put quite simply it's just not viable in South Australia. We don't have lots of big regional centres (25,000+ people) like QLD, NSW and VIC do, within close proximity to the major capital city to even make it feasible. I think the best we can realistically push for is services to Mount Barker.

If you really want to make regional rail viable, how about putting in a submission suggesting ideas as to how to make regional centres like Victor Harbor, Murray Bridge and the Barossa more attractive for people to live in. And then, with that add the regional rail component to it to further support the submission.

I agree with the second paragraph.

[[Shuz]]

I would focus on encouraging population and infrastructure development of the Victor Harbor Port Elliot - Middleton - Goolwa urban conglomeration. This area, as of the 2011 Census have a resident population of 23,849 people, which makes it South Australia's 3rd largest city, after Adelaide and Mount Gambier. I would expect at the 2016 Census, it will be the 2nd largest. (I don't care what the ABS says, I personally count Gawler and Mount Barker as being part of the Adelaide metropolitan area).

This urban conglomeration already has the infrastructure and services to accommodate another 30,000 people, which is what the City of Victor Harbor Council estimates that the resident population swells to during the peak holiday season. In my opinion, it is the prime candidate for further population and economic growth that can easily be absorbed within its existing infrastructure capacity, and with that, is an entirely feasible prospect for the introduction of regular regional rail services, like Victoria's V-Line network.

Furthermore, you could easily argue the case that this could ride off the back of the future extension of the Seaford line to Aldinga. And from what I know also, the land reservation for the rail Aldinga corridor could easily accommodate 4 tracks - 2 for regular suburban services to Aldinga, and 2 dedicated regional services to the Victor Harbor / Goolwa area. I recommend using Victoria's $3 billion Regional Rail Project as an example of achieving this goal.

[Waewick]

An area I believe is under utilised is the Riverland

There is at least two major towns - Berri and Renmark which could easily provide accommodation for another 10-15k with significant infrastructure invested in the area- other smaller towns such as Waikerie, Loxton, Bamera and Paringa also have historically held significantly more people than currently do.


The area is also well placed for a large population being close to Adelaide and Melbourne as well as having ample areas of development and recreation. They just need industry to be stimulated.


but that is just me

[Aidan]

Almost every part of SA could accommodate more people, but until we get high speed rail (which is unlikely to be any time soon) there are very few areas where rail services would attract many more people to settle there. It probably could in the Barossa, the Fleurieu Coast (NOT the Encounter Coast) and the Mid North, and possibly the Upper Yorke Peninsula. But everywhere else the lines are too indirect for rail to be competitive with roads.

However I do think there is some potential for feeder rail services linking Whyalla, Port Pirie and Mount Gambier with our interstate train services.

[Norman]

Why don't we improve our existing regional bus services first and provide a true integrated booking system instead of the wish-wash we have now. This will make it a lot easier and provide SA with a consistent regional public transport brand. Then we can talk about rail services and the like.

[ChillyPhilly]

Sent you a PM, Heardy

[AG]

Even with some of the larger regional areas around Australia, it's difficult to get much of a rail service once they are more than about 100-200km from the major city. The only regional centres of any sort of notable size in SA within distance of Adelaide are the Victor Harbor-Goolwa corridor and Murray Bridge.

Take a look at the tilt train services in Queensland for example. The electric tilt service runs only once a day between Rockhampton and Brisbane, and twice on some days between Bundaberg and Brisbane. The diesel service that runs all the way to Cairns only runs twice a week. Between Rockhampton and Brisbane, there are 5 centres with over 50,000 people, and another two with about 20,000 and the service is still infrequent.

It's only south of Gympie where the passenger service runs more frequently.

[Heardy_101]

Thanks for the update. I hope you know a lot of us are supporting you wholeheartedly and want to see regional rail in our great state.

Thanks, it is good to see some positive feedback and responses, as well as real constructive feedback, compared to the personal attacks and vilification I received on Railpage.

I "support" the idea, but put quite simply it's just not viable in South Australia. We don't have lots of big regional centres (25,000+ people) like QLD, NSW and VIC do, within close proximity to the major capital city to even make it feasible.

How is it not viable? People always say that without ever providing a further explanation. The passenger services to places such as Burra and the Barossa were closed while they were viable. Given that towns such as Nuriootpa, Angaston, Tanunda and Lyndoch would all have populations than what they were on 16/12/1968 when the last Barossa passenger train operated, and only Burra would be less. In fact after passenger trains to Burra ceased, the population of Burra and the towns the train service dropped substantially.

As of the 2006 census, the population of the major towns in the Barossa, combined, is 14287. This does not include the out regions of the towns. The above is divided into the towns of Nurioopta, Angaston, Tanunda, etc:

Nurioopta: 4,144
Tanunda: 4.153
Angaston: 1,865
Williamstown: 1,432
Lyndoch: 1,415
Greenock: 685
Mount Pleasant: 593

Only Williamstown, Greenock and Mount Pleasant aren't connected by the Barossa line.

What many people fail to realise is that a Barossa passenger service does not necessarily have to run from Adelaide. It could run from Gawler (not Gawler Central). The running costs would be far far cheaper and it would be far more "viable". There will soon be surplus Jumbo railcars, they can be used.

I think the best we can realistically push for is services to Mount Barker.

A train to Mount Barker, while it would be well patronised, wouldn't be favourable due to the amount of time it would take - and a gauge conversion would be required from Mount Barker to Mount Barker junction, with dual gauge at Mount Barker Station to allow SteamRanger to continue to operate. Alternatively the platform would have to be extended.

Almost every part of SA could accommodate more people, but until we get high speed rail (which is unlikely to be any time soon) there are very few areas where rail services would attract many more people to settle there.

I don't think high speed rail should be a pre-requisite. HSR isn't all that viable in Australia. Even between Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane, where the sheer expense of the infrastructure involved, which would include a separate right of way, new signalling and the same electric system Adelaide used (25 kVa), it would take a significant amount of years for $$ to be re-couped. Only solution I can think of that would help this would be making the Hume Highway a Tollway from Sydney - Melbourne, with cheaper rates for cars, with heavy trucks paying a higher rate.

It probably could in the Barossa, the Fleurieu Coast (NOT the Encounter Coast) and the Mid North, and possibly the Upper Yorke Peninsula. But everywhere else the lines are too indirect for rail to be competitive with roads.

Well using the above population statistics, I firmly believe there is enough to justify peak services from Gawler - Barossa. With the major centres on the line having a combined population of 11,557, if we assume that 25% of the population used peak or weekend services, that equates to 2889.25. Given each Jumbo railcar holds 64 passengers for a Power car, and 104 for a trailer car (keep in mind this does not including standing passengers), how many Jumbo sets would be needed? More than what were made, I'm thinking.

However I do think there is some potential for feeder rail services linking Whyalla, Port Pirie and Mount Gambier with our interstate train services.

I fully agree with you. The combined population of the three majot cities in the Spencer Gulf - Whyalla, Port Pirie and Port Augusta, are high enough to justify a service, even if it terminates at Keswick. Now yes, it is quicker to drive, however lets look at it this way. A service would not have to be an every day one. Three days a week, with a motorail service available for passengers to take their cars, would easily be viable.

Mount Gambier is the same story.

Why don't we improve our existing regional bus services first and provide a true integrated booking system instead of the wish-wash we have now. This will make it a lot easier and provide SA with a consistent regional public transport brand. Then we can talk about rail services and the like.

This is exactly what needs to be done. The current regional bus arrangement doesn't suit many people, especially the timetabling.