The Federal Politics Thread

Message

[Shuz] · #316 Post by **[Shuz]** » Thu Jan 09, 2014 1:18 pm

Credit where credlin's due. (pun intended)

Peta Credlin, his chief of staff, despite all her bad press, is actually an extremely good minder. She's the one restraining Abbott on a daily basis. You thought being a Prime Minister was a tough gig - I reckon she would have a tougher job than Abbott himself.

claybro · #317 Post by **claybro** » Fri Jan 10, 2014 5:51 pm

On a very touchy subject, just where do the media get off, demanding answers from the government on what the government is/or isnt doing with assylum seeker boats. The former government made the mistake of using the media to announce every policy alteration, only to have the media savagly attack their lack of controll of the borders. Now the government of the day takes the approach that these people are illegally entering our waters, it is a nationa ldefence issue and as such is being treated accordingly. Now we have channel 7 in a lather because evidentally people on board boats are being manhandled and hancuffed!! Sorry media, but you beat the public into a frenzy over out of control boat arrivals, got the result you wanted (a tougher approach) and now you are demanding answers as to why the government is hancuffing illegal and sometimes aggresive people entering our territory. I am fully in support of the government telling the media to sod off, because if they dance too closely with the media, it will turn and undermine until ,as with that Labor government, it is gone regardelss of what it does.

Aidan · #318 Post by **Aidan** » Fri Jan 10, 2014 9:57 pm

claybro wrote:On a very touchy subject, just where do the media get off, demanding answers from the government on what the government is/or isnt doing with assylum seeker boats. The former government made the mistake of using the media to announce every policy alteration, only to have the media savagly attack their lack of controll of the borders. Now the government of the day takes the approach that these people are illegally entering our waters, it is a nationa ldefence issue and as such is being treated accordingly. Now we have channel 7 in a lather because evidentally people on board boats are being manhandled and hancuffed!! Sorry media, but you beat the public into a frenzy over out of control boat arrivals, got the result you wanted (a tougher approach) and now you are demanding answers as to why the government is hancuffing illegal and sometimes aggresive people entering our territory. I am fully in support of the government telling the media to sod off, because if they dance too closely with the media, it will turn and undermine until ,as with that Labor government, it is gone regardelss of what it does.

So you think the media should give the government an easy run just because they're doing something different from what their predecessors did? Most people would regard them as failing in their duty if they did that.

In reality this has never been a national defence issue. Our borders are not under threat, and are much more secure than those of nearly every other country. So the government are basing their policy on a lie. A vicious lie. AN EVIL LIE because they're using it to persecute asylum seekers. So it's right for the media to go in hard.

And don't forget, the media aren't a homogenous entity. SevenWest are quite different from News Limited, and even within one media group there are varied opinions.

claybro · #319 Post by **claybro** » Sat Jan 11, 2014 9:48 am

Aiden, rightly or wrongly most Austrlians think that thousands of people arriving by boat is a border security issue. Luring people sometimes to their death is a result of lax border security measures and the promise of a guaranteed place in Australia by breaking international law ie travelling without documents through several countries resulted in many deaths at sea. The media whipped the population into an absolute frenzy over this, and demanded answers from the former government on what they planned to do. There were 2 options.....pluck them out of the sea in RAN boats and bring them to Australia safely, or tighten border controlls. Both governments have decided to tighten the borders, Indonesia dont like it and now the media has been left without a bleeding heart story of poor souls dieing at sea, so they are demanding one from the government. In this instance I am happy for the government to say Sod off.

Aidan · #320 Post by **Aidan** » Sat Jan 11, 2014 2:47 pm

claybro wrote:Aiden, rightly or wrongly most Austrlians think that thousands of people arriving by boat is a border security issue.

Of course it's a border security issue. But border security has very little to do with border protection. Border protection is one of the most basic duties of any government. Some would say it's the most basic duty. Border security is a much lower priority, and you can count on one had the countries that have more secure borders than Australia.

Luring people sometimes to their death is a result of lax border security measures and the promise of a guaranteed place in Australia by breaking international law ie travelling without documents through several countries resulted in many deaths at sea.

International law does not prohibit people from travelling without documents. Only genuine refugees were guaranteed a place in Australia when they got here. And they're only risking their lives because Australia's denying them the opportunity to come here in a safe way. And the few who do come here by boat in a safe way (across the Torres Strait in calm conditions) don't get treated any better, which suggests the governent's using the deaths at sea as an excuse for a hostile policy rather than it being the acutal reason.

The media whipped the population into an absolute frenzy over this, and demanded answers from the former government on what they planned to do. There were 2 options.....pluck them out of the sea in RAN boats and bring them to Australia safely, or tighten border controlls.

Yet the third option of letting them come here without risking their lives is not even acknowledged as existing!

Both governments have decided to tighten the borders, Indonesia dont like it and now the media has been left without a bleeding heart story of poor souls dieing at sea, so they are demanding one from the government. In this instance I am happy for the government to say Sod off.

The Libs have been pushing simplistic solutions without admitting that these solutions bring problems of their own. Who, if not the media, can hold them accountable?

#321 Post by **monotonehell** » Sat Jan 11, 2014 7:07 pm

So now we see the Government's modus operandi emerging.
1. First they decide what they want to do, based on ideology despite evidence.
2. Then they launch a phoney review panel, stacked with friends to the cause, with the outcome already decided.
3. Then they completely mess it up.

First it was the NBN which has basically been packed up and dropped off a bridge into the harbour. Now it's 'education'. With one of the panellists promoting that more religion needs to be taught.

Education reviewer Kevin Donnelly makes case for more religion to be taught in public schools
There should be more religious education in Australian schools, says one of the men tasked with reviewing the national curriculum.

Former teacher and ex-Liberal Party staffer Kevin Donnelly says Australian education has become too secular, and the federation's Judeo-Christian heritage should be better reflected in the curriculum. The review was announced yesterday by Federal Education Minister Christopher Pyne, after concerns the curriculum had become too left-leaning and was failing students.

Mr Donnelly says religion does not have enough of a presence in Australia's "very secular curriculum", and that it needs to be taught "more effectively. I'm not saying we should preach to everyone, but I would argue that the great religions of the world - whether it's Islam, whether it's Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism - they should be taught over the compulsory years of school," he said. "When you look at Parliaments around Australia - they all begin with the Lord's prayer. If you look at our constitution, the preamble is about God. You can't airbrush that from history - it has to be recognised."

Mr Donnelly is also making the argument that Australian education has lurched to the "cultural left".

"The curriculum, as with most of the Western nations - England, America, New Zealand, Australia, over the last 20 or so years - they've adopted a curriculum that I call progressive, new age. On the left side, if you like," he said.

"I have argued in the past, as Minister Pyne has, that we need to get the balance right in terms of Asia, Indigenous, sustainability - that's OK - but the pendulum has swung too far towards what I call a politically correct view.

"So we do need to emphasise the fact that we are a Western, liberal, democratic nation."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-01-11/c ... ls/5195410

"Left leaning", "right leaning", these are phrases used by people driven by ideology. Government should be evidence driven. What we are seeing is an ideology being inflicted on us by stealth and deceit.

Dog · #322 Post by **Dog** » Sat Jan 11, 2014 7:07 pm

Apparently according to the Libs there is not enough religion and Gallipoli taught in schools, strange I thought it was not enough maths and science.

Both Christopher Pyne and Cory Bernardi are just an embarrassment to the rest of South Australians. Paint us as a loony city of Churches backwater. When is Adelaide going to shake off this crap, you can't even watch the cricket with out of one of the commentators referring to The "city of Churches" makes me cringe, Melbourne is full of bloody churches!

I would much rather be the city of Science, medicine and education.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

rev · #323 Post by **rev** » Sat Jan 11, 2014 7:45 pm

There should be more focus on Australian history in schools. It should be mandatory.
Religion not so much since we there's more then just Christians in Australia..last thing we need is some Muslim extremists demanding we teach Islam too..and the typical left wing fake refugee loving wankers of this country jumping up to champion their cause.

And if our navy is finally turning back the boats, ABOUT BLOODY TIME.
Refugees don't burn their identification documents when they see navy and airforce.
Did anyone catch the Indonesian official on ABC I think last night who said if it continues it could force Indonesia to take military action?

Matt · #324 Post by **Matt** » Sat Jan 11, 2014 7:54 pm

Perhaps if you'd been taught about Islam at school, you wouldn't automatically associate Muslims with extremists.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Dog · #325 Post by **Dog** » Sat Jan 11, 2014 8:16 pm

Perhaps if the Libs are going to promote Christian religious education they could take a lesson from the major churches. Both the Catholic and Uniting churches have condemned Australia's harsh treatment of refugees.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

#326 Post by **monotonehell** » Sat Jan 11, 2014 10:21 pm

rev wrote:There should be more focus on Australian history in schools. It should be mandatory.

I hear this said quite a bit. Apparently not by anyone who knows even just the outline of the curriculum that they teach in school. Australian history does and always has paid a part in school.

The current curriculum which the Libs want to turf, not because it's bad, but because they did make it, contains Australian History...
http://www.australiancurriculum.edu.au/ ... to-year-12

(Hurry before the Libs take the website offline like they did with the NBN website.

rev · #327 Post by **rev** » Sat Jan 11, 2014 10:46 pm

I was trying to keep my post brief as I'm on my phone, but yes I know it's still taught. To what extent I don't know(been a long time since I finished school). Wouldn't surprise me if that was why they want to change things. I don't think it's mandatory in high school, it should be broken down between primary and high schooling and be mandatory up to year 10.

And Matt, I probably know more about the true nature of Islam and it's followers(I come from a place that was occupied by such people for400 years...the negative effects of which are still felt today...nothing good came of it either..a region of the world where nobody has anything nice to say about it..) then you. Not being cocky but Australia's and Australians in general haven't really experienced real Islam yet.
So if you are going to give me some bleeding heart leftist lecture on Islam and it's followers don't.
It's not a coincidence that everywhere they migrate their are societal problems. I might post a video for you later when I'm home..more and more people are waking up..hopefully Australia wakes up before we have to learn the lessons others have the hard way. If the navy really is turning boats back now it's the best thing they can do in service of their country aside from defending it in war and providing disaster relief.

What's sad is how nobody seems to ask why Indonesia doesn't do anything substantial against people smuggling. Nobody asks why Indonesia doesn't go and help boats I'm distress 20-30 miles off its coast and why our navy has to go.

rev · #328 Post by **rev** » Sat Jan 11, 2014 10:48 pm

Isn't the NBN website still online? I thought they just changed the way it worked re the rollout map?

Matt · #329 Post by **Matt** » Sat Jan 11, 2014 11:00 pm

Please do share your video. It'll be good for a laugh.

The rest of your post is so ridiculous and self righteous it doesn't warrant reply, other than to say that friends and colleagues (who happen to be Muslim) would be (rightly) offended at being called extremists, when they are among the most gentle and peaceful people I know.

Call me a bleeding heart leftie all you like, but judging peoples' character purely on their religious beliefs isn't my thing.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

rev · #330 Post by **rev** » Sun Jan 12, 2014 10:08 am

Matt wrote:Please do share your video. It'll be good for a laugh.

The rest of your post is so ridiculous and self righteous it doesn't warrant reply, other than to say that friends and colleagues (who happen to be Muslim) would be (rightly) offended at being called extremists, when they are among the most gentle and peaceful people I know.

Call me a bleeding heart leftie all you like, but judging peoples' character purely on their religious beliefs isn't my thing.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What's good for a laugh is naive westerners who've had a few good experiences with a few westernized muslims, who then try talk down others who warn about Islams dangers to western society. I know more then a few westernized muslims too, I work with a few like you, what's your point about your work colleagues?

Look around the world. Everywhere they go, they cause huge problems to societies. If they're not rioting about someone not handling the quran as if it was some 10,000 year old fossil, they are busy spreading their hate and turning parts of neighborhoods into ghettos. Many of them are trafficking drugs, guns you name it, and the proceeds get sent back to their homelands to fund extremist/terrorist groups. These are facts I'm providing you with. You can look them up your self and maybe open your eyes up to the real world, and not the little fantasy world you live in currently where everyone is peaceful and loving of each other.

We've had how many of their "spiritual" leaders preaching hate right here in Australia, even in Adelaide. These are the ones who've been exposed. What about those who haven't? In the years that followed 9/11, there was a terror cell busted in Melbourne and I think Sydney who were planning attacks right here in Australia.
Spiritual leaders of theirs who say our women should be raped because of the way they dress. In other words, cover your selves up like their women do, or you deserve to get raped by them.

Maybe when the terrorism that happens overseas starts happening here you'll wake up.

It's a ticking time bomb for Australian society. Let's hope what happens overseas doesn't end up happening here.
But you can see already they are starting with their demands with a soft approach..with that professor the other week suggesting that all new buildings in Adelaide be built with squat toilets to accommodate them. This is just the tip of the iceberg. This is how it starts.

To keep this post and discussion on topic, if Abbott has the navy turning back the boats, then that's a good thing for Australia. They really don't know whose coming over in many cases, and even ASIO has hinted at times publicly that they have concerns regarding terrorism with quite a few of these people coming on boats.

What made me laugh this week regarding the illegal boats issue was Bill Shorten asking Abbott what's really going on. Like Labor doesn't know what's going on with boat arrivals.