News & Discussion: Public Transport Contracts, Service & Policy

[ml69]

One thing that annoys me about Adelaide's rail network (particularly the heavily-used Gawler and Seaford lines which account for around two-thirds of all rail trips in Adelaide) is the closeness of the stations.

Stations are roughly 1km apart, meaning frequent stopping and starting and a much longer ride from the outer suburbs. Surely this must add an unnecessary extra 10 mins coming from Gawler or Seaford? Why can't we get rid of all the low-frequented stations (saving maintenance costs) and improving park and ride facilities and safety at the remaining highly-frequented stations?

This may result in the reduction of, perhaps, half of our stations. But I don't see a problem with this, a metro rail system should provide fast and efficient transport for lots of people. It shouldn't be designed to provide a stop within 500m of each house along the rail corridor. That's the role of buses and trams.

This principle already works well for the Obahn. There are only 3 stops on the Obahn - Klemzig, Paradise and TTP. Buses feed these interchanges, and the car parks are usually full. It only takes 6 mins from Paradise to Hackney Rd on the edge of the CBD in peak hour!

Another great example are the Joondalup (now Clarkson) and Mandurah rail lines in Perth. The Clarkson line is 33km long (about the length of the Seaford line) with just 10 stations. The Mandurah line is 70km long with 8 stations. However each station is very modern with extensive floodlit car parking and allows for connecting buses to the local catchment area. Both these lines each carry over 50,000 passengers per day.

Why can't we do the same? We have similar low density sprawling outer suburbs like Perth. Any thoughts?

[monotonehell]

One thing that annoys me about Adelaide's rail network (particularly the heavily-used Gawler and Seaford lines which account for around two-thirds of all rail trips in Adelaide) is the closeness of the stations.

Stations are roughly 1km apart, meaning frequent stopping and starting and a much longer ride from the outer suburbs. Surely this must add an unnecessary extra 10 mins coming from Gawler or Seaford? Why can't we get rid of all the low-frequented stations (saving maintenance costs) and improving park and ride facilities and safety at the remaining highly-frequented stations?

This may result in the reduction of, perhaps, half of our stations. But I don't see a problem with this, a metro rail system should provide fast and efficient transport for lots of people. It shouldn't be designed to provide a stop within 500m of each house along the rail corridor. That's the role of buses and trams.

This principle already works well for the Obahn. There are only 3 stops on the Obahn - Klemzig, Paradise and TTP. Buses feed these interchanges, and the car parks are usually full. It only takes 6 mins from Paradise to Hackney Rd on the edge of the CBD in peak hour!

Another great example are the Joondalup (now Clarkson) and Mandurah rail lines in Perth. The Clarkson line is 33km long (about the length of the Seaford line) with just 10 stations. The Mandurah line is 70km long with 8 stations. However each station is very modern with extensive floodlit car parking and allows for connecting buses to the local catchment area. Both these lines each carry over 50,000 passengers per day.

Why can't we do the same? We have similar low density sprawling outer suburbs like Perth. Any thoughts?

I have no thoughts on this matter for I have been saying the same things for about a decade now.

[Torrens_5022]

I agree in part to having stations further apart and connecting buses but only in low density outer suburbs - for example from Mawson Lakes to Gawler you could remove quite a few stations, Greenfields, Parafield Gardens, Chidda, Nurlutta, Elizabeth South, Womma?? (could become a park and ride if land to to west is developed), Broadmeadows, Kudla, Tambelin (then relocated and renamed Evanston Gardens just south of the Gawler bypass bridge), Evanston and Gawler Oval. This is 10 stations removed one relocated and one redeveloped in the future if needed. The inner stations would remain the same since housing density is going to increase. Having stations far apart in the inner area would just be a disincentive to growth.

[Nathan]

Aside from removing stations (sorry, "stops/platforms"), what about true "express" trains, where trains only stop at major stops along the entire route, rather than this idea of express trains skipping the first half and then each stop thereafter? If you run both express and all-stops trains at the same time, then you have the option of either jumping on a train and never transferring (takes longer, but less fuss), or take the all-stops/local train up to the next major station, and then transferring to the express (you have to transfer, but it's faster). I know it works really well in Tokyo, but not sure whether it's something that would work universally or if it depends on certain levels of density to become feasible (aside from the obvious need of additional bypass tracks at local stations).

[jk1237]

I disagree that there is too many stations on the Gawler line. I think they are well spaced apart (except Greenfields to Mawson Lakes). Noarlunga line is not too bad either (Brighton to city maybe a bit clustered). I really don't find Perth's northern and southern line as perfect as everyone thinks - these 2 lines are just encourage low density sprawl as far as you can see, because its so fast to get from the outer northern and southern suburbs of Perth into the city. The actual patronage of the lines is very successful though. We have added just as many people to inner Adelaide as inner Perth over last decade, however Perth is growing by thousands, and its all going on endless outer sprawl. In Perth you can drive your car to your local station, and taken the train 35km into Perth CBD in just 20 mins, I find this a bit silly, as its doesn't encourage density close to the city. Perth has just completed another extension to the northern line, and in a few more years there will be another.

[ChillyPhilly]

Certain peak services along the Gawler line are fine. Some skip stations or stop at major ones only. Get a bit crowded, but that's part of PT. For instance, it's quicker for me to get to Adelaide via the 8.10AM weekday service from Salisbury (~20 km) than it was travelling at any time from Seaton Park (~7 km).

I do agree about the spread of stations though, it's congested between Parafield Gardens and Mawson Lakes. Most of the stops have low patronage and are often skipped anyway.

[crawf]

The Outer Harbor line is quite crowded and could do with some closures.

I do agree about the spread of stations though, it's congested between Parafield Gardens and Mawson Lakes. Most of the stops have low patronage and are often skipped anyway.

Probably because Greenfields and Parafield Gardens are very intimidating stations. I would not be game to use either station at night.

Greenfields needs to be demolished.

[Hooligan]

How far is Greenfields from Mawson Lakes? It would only be about 600 metres or so away? That's bus stop distance.

[Aidan]

How far is Greenfields from Mawson Lakes? It would only be about 600 metres or so away? That's bus stop distance.

Yes it's bus stop distance... but there's no bus route and the street layout prevents one from being introduced (you can't drive from Greenfields to Mawson Lakes without detouring to the Salisbury Highway). So although it had originally been planned to close Greenfields station when the Mawson Interchange opened, the residents of Greenfields and the southern part of Parafield Gardens successfully campaigned against the closure.

[Hooligan]

Maybe people could learn to walk 600 metres?

[Brucetiki]

Maybe people could learn to walk 600 metres?

Like driving, they would have to walk via Salisbury Highway, and the way the Mawson Lakes station is designed it would be difficult to set up a path from Greenfields to Mawson Lakes.

[Hooligan]

There is a path along the rail line.

[Aidan]

Maybe people could learn to walk 600 metres?

The main problem isn't walking 600m, it's walking another 600m beyond the distance they already walk.

Another problem is land value. Those who live very near Greenfields station (and originally paid a premium to do so) would lose a substantial part of the value of their houses.

[ml69]

Maybe people could learn to walk 600 metres?

The main problem isn't walking 600m, it's walking another 600m beyond the distance they already walk.

Another problem is land value. Those who live very near Greenfields station (and originally paid a premium to do so) would lose a substantial part of the value of their houses.

Are you serious?? Paid a premium to live near Greenfields station? I very much doubt that crappy train stop would add very much value to the nearby houses (quite a different story if it was a decent well-equipped train station).

[PeFe]

From Adelaide Now

Transfield and South Link bus drivers to strike on Sunday


TICKET inspectors have been out in force along Adelaide's busy O-Bahn this morning on the first day of industrial action launched by the unions.

Confusion over whether commuters will be fined for not validating tickets has escalated, with Transport Services Minister Chloe Fox saying on FIVEaa radio this morning that people would not be fined.

A spokesman for the Minister said that while commuters could technically be fined, "common sense would prevail" and they would not be.

This stance contradicts that of the Transport Department, who yesterday said passengers without tickets would face $220 on-the-spot fines because they are "legally and morally obliged to pay".

Public Transport Services deputy chief executive Lino Di Lernia said commuters had an obligation to pay for the service despite industrial action.

"As far as (today) being a free public transport day, it's definitely not the case," Mr Di Lernia said.



A ticket inspector boards an O-Bahn bus at Paradise interchange this morning to ensure commuters validated their tickets. Pic: Sam Wundke.

Have you been fined today for not validating your ticket? Tell us below.

Commuters on many buses along the O-Bahn this morning were given a choice not to pay for tickets as union drivers waived fares in order to receive better working conditions.

One driver told a female student she was "obliged to pay" but would not tell her "what to do".

At the Paradise Interchange ticket inspectors boarded city-bound buses announcing to passengers to have their validated tickets ready.

One inspector would not comment when approached by The Advertiser.



Commuters at the Tea Tree Plaza Interchange.

Many commuters said they were happy to pay as they had Metrocards, but some said they were disappointed with inspectors revenue raising on a day when the union is shining a light on the industry.

"It's blatant revenue raising," one man said.

"I won't be validating my ticket because they have ticket inspectors out today."

"I'll get on the bus and see what happens," another female commuter said.

"I support the strike."



PAIN: Early morning commuters line up for a bus at the Noarlunga Centre Interchange.

Drivers told The Advertiser that despite the industrial action most commuters were validating their tickets.

On the return trip to the city The Advertiser was ordered to validate its ticket by a driver who said he was not a member of the union.

Transport Workers Union state branch secretary Ray Wyatt said he would welcome bus inspectors on the network today.

"If the Government is going to have investigators on buses that will work for us because it will make buses more safe, which is what we want,'' he said.

The union has stepped up its industrial action against Transfield and SouthLink bus companies by deciding to strike this Sunday.

Union members will walk off the job between 10am and 2pm and attend an "awareness campaign'' with their families in the city to highlight their cause.

The first round of industrial action begins today, with union members driving for the two companies refusing to collect fares or enforce ticket validation indefinitely.

Services affected include the O-Bahn, some in the Adelaide Hills and northern and southern suburbs.

Opposition Transport spokeswoman Vickie Chapman said 92 per cent of bus fares go to Government revenue "so it's obviously in the Government's interest to say passengers have to pay anyway''.

Commuters who use the Park 'n' Ride facilities at Tea Tree Plaza could also feel a sting if they fail to validate their ticket.

The system that charges $2 parking for O-Bahn users will resort to casual fares if the commuter has not validated their ticket within two hours of exiting the car park.

This will result in a charge of $10 for using the Park 'n' Ride facilities.

A spokesman for Transport Services Minister Chloe Fox referred questions about the Government's handling of the industrial dispute to Attorney General John Rau, whose office said the action was "primarily a matter between the employers, the union and their representatives".


http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/sout ... 6812151805

And as an astute reader on the comments page pointed out, one of the photos was taken last year when the weather was colder.......that really is dishonest journalism, passing off older photos as relating to the bus strike.