News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

[monotonehell]

I think the main reason that the Gawler electrification keeps being delayed is because electrifying the line would render 1/3 of the train fleet unusable; the 2000/2100 class diesel trains can't be run under electric wires because their cabs are too close to the wires.

The O-Bahn is costing $160M. You could probably electrify the Gawler line for this, however you would then need to buy more trains with this greatly increasing the cost.

Once all 22 electric trains are delivered and are operational then the Diesel trains will be able to be cascaded to the other lines and services along these lines will be able to be increased. Electrification is great but it isn't the 'be all, end all'.

Does anyone have a estimate on how much quicker Gawler services would be if the line were to be electrified? Is the time saving more than 4 minutes?

This is what I was asking a few pages back. OBahn can be done now, electrification can not. There had to be a reason behind the decision.

[SouthAussie94]

Correct. From memory Gawler electrification is somewhere at around $150 million. The trains have already been ordered and paid for as far as I am aware.

The only trains that have been ordered are the 22 electric trains for the Seaford/Tonsley line. When all 22 are in service there will be enough trains to allow 15 minutes frequency during the day plus a more frequent peak service, also allowing for 1/2 trains to be in for servicing.

In other words to run a high frequency Seaford/Tonsley service you need roughly 20 trains.

If Gawler were to be electrified now this number would have to more than double to run a purely electric service. Even if only half of services were run using electric trains, this would still be a significant number, with all of these additional trains needing to be ordered. Until the Government is able to afford more electric trains then the Gawler electrification will continue being delayed.

[crawf]

Wasn't the electric order for the Gawler line aswell?, with the 3000-class also being converted to electric?

The new electric trains are faster, more reliable, quiet and attractive. Not to mention being permanently coupled as 3-set trains, they are more safer compared to the current diesel fleet. For example recently I had an issue with a fellow passenger (complete toolbag) and you really do feel isolated in the end carriage.

This is why it's crucial that the Gawler line is electrified ASAP, even to Mawson Lakes/Salisbury. The northern suburbs were promised back in 2007 of full electrification, yet fast track to 2014 and the project has been post-poned to 2017/18 and it's only to Salisbury!

Sure the extra diesel services will definitely improve the reliability and frequency. Though most of the older diesel fleet are ready for the scrap heap. At the end of the day, Adelaide's railway network is still the worst in the country and needs of lot of investment and common sense to bring it up to a national standard.

[ChillyPhilly]

One existing, legitimate reason for holding back the electrification of the Gawler line is the length of some station platforms: although I've never disembarked at some of these, off the top of my head Ovingham, Dudley Park, Islington, Kilburn, Dry Creek, Greenfields, Parafield Gardens, Nurlutta (and others that I don't travel past beyond Elizabeth), are all under length and below standard, incapable of meeting the length and surfacing standard (i.e. finished floor level of the platform especially) of a permanent, three-car electric set.

The following meet the above requirements: Mawson Lakes, Parafield (in progress), Salisbury, Elizabeth South, Elizabeth Interchange and I'm sure only a small few beyond Elizabeth, like Broadmeadows for one.

[ml69]

One existing, legitimate reason for holding back the electrification of the Gawler line is the length of some station platforms: although I've never disembarked at some of these, off the top of my head Ovingham, Dudley Park, Islington, Kilburn, Dry Creek, Greenfields, Parafield Gardens, Nurlutta (and others that I don't travel past beyond Elizabeth), are all under length and below standard, incapable of meeting the length and surfacing standard (i.e. finished floor level of the platform especially) of a permanent, three-car electric set.

The following meet the above requirements: Mawson Lakes, Parafield (in progress), Salisbury, Elizabeth South, Elizabeth Interchange and I'm sure only a small few beyond Elizabeth, like Broadmeadows for one.

Those stations (Ovingham, Dudley Park, Islington, Kilburn, Dry Creek, Greenfields, Parafield Gardens, Nurlutta) should all be de-commissioned and closed in my opinion.

They are all below standard because they are very low patronage stations, and hence haven't been upgraded. Replace Kilburn with a new modern station with park n ride facilities adjacent the Churchill Centre (Coles, Costco) shopping precinct. Call the station "Churchill".

Keep the high patronage stations only, but improve access, security and passenger facilities with more park n ride, car park floodlighting, local bus connections at these stations. A fast, frequent line shouldn't have stations every kilometre or so located in the middle of nowhere.

Great example to follow ... Joondalup (Northern) line in Perth. About 40km long. 10 modern stations. 15 min off-peak services. Extensive park n ride and local bus connections at most stations ... 50,000+ daily passengers.

My suggestion for Gawler line stops is below. This could work for a 15 min off-peak, all-stops service.
1. Ovingham (possibly - and upgraded). So that Dudley Park residents don't feel put out by the closure of their station
2. Churchill (new station adjacent Churchill Centre)
3. Mawson Lakes (fine as is)
4. Parafield (currently being upgraded by DPTI)
5. Salisbury (needs upgrade to Elizabeth standard)
6. Elizabeth South (fine as is)
7. Elizabeth (fine as is)
8. Smithfield (requires upgrade)
9. Munno Para (fine as is)
10. Evanston (requires upgrade)
11. Gawler (fine as is)
12. Gawler Central (fine as is)

My two cents worth : )

[Nathan]

My suggestion for Gawler line stops is below. This could work for a 15 min off-peak, all-stops service.

Agreed, but add in North Adelaide as well (with improved access through the golf course to Mills Tce, rather than a partial dirt trail / desire line)

[metro]

The state govt cant even afford to improve the worst station on the network, Islington station is in the most appalling condition, and the funny thing is they've designated it a main station and yet giving it some minor improvement works wouldn't even cost that much; new fencing, shelters and better lighting and signage could all be done for less than half a mil.

[Brucetiki]

Those stations (Ovingham, Dudley Park, Islington, Kilburn, Dry Creek, Greenfields, Parafield Gardens, Nurlutta) should all be de-commissioned and closed in my opinion.

They are all below standard because they are very low patronage stations, and hence haven't been upgraded.

Hey I use Nurlutta, oh wait I'm the only person that uses Nurlutta

I thought Nurlutta recently just had some minor upgrades to it - I'm sure the Gawler platform was recently extended.

Having said that I wouldn't object if Nurlutta closed, I'd just use Salisbury (and the 3 people that use Nurlutta could easily use Salisbury or Elizabeth South).

[ml69]

Those stations (Ovingham, Dudley Park, Islington, Kilburn, Dry Creek, Greenfields, Parafield Gardens, Nurlutta) should all be de-commissioned and closed in my opinion.

They are all below standard because they are very low patronage stations, and hence haven't been upgraded.

Hey I use Nurlutta, oh wait I'm the only person that uses Nurlutta

I thought Nurlutta recently just had some minor upgrades to it - I'm sure the Gawler platform was recently extended.

Having said that I wouldn't object if Nurlutta closed, I'd just use Salisbury (and the 3 people that use Nurlutta could easily use Salisbury or Elizabeth South).

Interesting feedback Brucetiki .... out of interest, do you drive or walk to Nurlutta station? How would you get to Salisbury or Elizabeth South in the future if Nurlutta closed?

[ChillyPhilly]

Closing any station 'because it's low patronage' would be a detriment and a major convenience to those who either do use it or ARE reliant on it. Rather, improve these stations and improve access and 'visibility' among many other things to increase patronage. They don't need to be removed even without these upgrades, as numerous services skip selected stations along the line already, or serve only the major stops.

[ml69]

Closing any station 'because it's low patronage' would be a detriment and a major convenience to those who either do use it or ARE reliant on it. Rather, improve these stations and improve access and 'visibility' among many other things to increase patronage. They don't need to be removed even without these upgrades, as numerous services skip selected stations along the line already, or serve only the major stops.

If we want to achieve the goal of the often-quoted "fast and frequent" service, keeping these low patronage stations open does not help us achieve either the fast or frequent goal. All it helps is to convenience a small minority of passengers (possibly only 5-10%) to the detriment of the vast majority (90-95%).

As for the "express" type services you mention which only stop at major stations, these are fast but NOT frequent, certainly not every 15 mins in the off-peak.

At the same time, I believe local connecting bus services need to be improved/redirected, and park n ride facilities improved on the stations being retained. I don't think you can close the low patronage stations until improved alternatives are first in place.

[Torrens_5022]

So you want to close every station before Mawson Lakes? Islington, Ovingham, Dudley Park and even North Adelaide are in areas where housing density will increase, Islington will have a housing estate with apartments etc built next to it some time in the futures, North Adelaide is very close to the Bowden development - good for people commuting north to work and/or uni and Churchill road will have growth with apartments and higher density housing in the future. The train line is for everyone not just people who live the furthest from the city. Elizabeth Station is 26km from ARS and has express services that only take 29mins and an all stops is only 36mins. Removing these stops will save you a max of 6mins.

[Aidan]

Those stations (Ovingham, Dudley Park, Islington, Kilburn, Dry Creek, Greenfields, Parafield Gardens, Nurlutta) should all be de-commissioned and closed in my opinion.

Take another look at them and see why they shouldn't:
Ovingham has a lot of potential as a bus interchange when frequencies increase. Housing density in the area is quite high, so the staton should have quite a good catchment.
I admit there's a case for the closure of Dudley Park station as the area's quite well served by buses, but if the station's kept open then there's significant redevelopment potential when the nearby factories close.
Islington station is useful for accessing destinations along Regency Road, and E-W buses. There's plenty of regeneration potential on the eastern side. The housing estate on the western side is far from any bus route to the City.
Kilburn needs a western entrance. This would put it within walking distance of a large industrial area that's not well served by buses. Admittedly a western entrance would be expensive, but it would be much cheaper there than at your Churchill station site (which would also be inferior for serving the factories).
Dry Creek also serves an industrial area that's not well served by buses. There's potential for interchange with a new E-W bus route to give good public transport access to Adelaide's biggest industrial area.
Greenfields is the obvious target for closure, but there's a lot of local opposition to that. The lack of any roads through to Mawson Lakes prevents buses from alleviating the inconvenience. And industrial development is planned on the adjacent part of the Parafield Airport land.
Commercial development is planned on the Parafield Airport land next to Parafield Gardens.
Nurlutta also serves a significant busless area, and there is great regeneration potential for the GMH site.

[Hooligan]

Islington would be a good hub if it was redeveloped ala Mawson Lakes style.

[Aidan]

Islington would be a good hub if it was redeveloped ala Mawson Lakes style.

How do you mean?