News & Discussion: O-Bahn

[The Scooter Guy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=418LRQBz4OA
And that would be another 10 years before we get more new tramways!

[[Shuz]]

Its better than what it was before. But I still do not see the need for a tunnel. We really should be focusing on the long term solution here, which is to convert the O-Bahn to a heavy rail corridor.

[Kasey771]

Bloody awesome suggestion!

Aside from the obvious transportation benefits, anything that works towards increasing use of the parklands is a great thing in my opinion. They're clearly one of Adelaide's greatest yet most underused assets - in any other city they'd be teeming with people, bikes, events, pop-ups, cafes, festivals, sports yet most of ours sit largely empty most of the time.

This will turn a good event space into a great event space and should be used accordingly. Plus, diverting through traffic away from Rundle Street will be great for the area - hopefully paving the way (no pun intended) for an eventual single-direction shared zone with greater space for outdoor dining and more of a focus on pedestrians...

Sadly I think this will be similar to the tram extensionin that it will creat a shitstorm of public comment, most of it self centred and negative, BUT if the govt can get this built, it will have thousands of "why didn't we do this before?" type comments.

[dsriggs]

Ohhhhh boy, the exit of the tunnel is in the middle of parklands. I can hear people scribbling on protest signs now...

[Nathan]

Video from DPTI

[metro]

The updated proposal is an improvement, however, rather than just throwing $160m at building a tunnel, I think the State govt should at least consider doing a trial of bus lanes and better traffic light sequences to favour the obahn buses along the existing streets to determine if they can get that 5-10min time saving without throwing $160m away, funds which could be better spent on electrifying more of the rail network

[Patrick_27]

It's a good start. Though, it's only a start.

I'd like to see either:
- Buses removed from the city streets with bus-ways under the city; similar to what Brisbane have now, and what they have planned for the future. One running from North to South and another from East to West, like Brisbane's you could build the bus-way tunnels on-top of an eventual underground rail tunnel.
- Removing a bulk of car traffic from the city by improving the city ring route (freeway grade), widen pedestrian strips and decrease the lanes on the major city streets (particularly Grenfell and Currie).

Here's the proposal for Brisbane's bus-way expansion.

[how good is he]

I think it's a good idea to join Rundle Park and Rymill Park but still think there is a need for an (underground) Rundle Road beneath the new joined parklands or an alternative was if this whole area was used for a massive underground car park under the parklands as there is a severe lack of parking in the East end. Thoughts?
Also the potential East Tram image reducing Grenfell St to one lane (already crowded with buses etc) may not be the best outcome if it eventuates. I would have thought North Terrace past the Uni, Museum etc would make more sense esp.with the Old RAH site going. I think North Tce would also allow more room for road widening.

[EBG]

It seems Jay has just found a 1950's street directory- when trams ran down Grenfell St then straight across the parklands (through Rymill park) to Dequetteville Tce and on to Norwood via Rundle St Kent Town. See map at
http://www.trammuseumadelaide.com.au/im ... decity.pdf
So it 's back to the future.

[Nathan]

I think it's a good idea to join Rundle Park and Rymill Park but still think there is a need for an (underground) Rundle Road beneath the new joined parklands or an alternative was if this whole area was used for a massive underground car park under the parklands as there is a severe lack of parking in the East end. Thoughts?
Also the potential East Tram image reducing Grenfell St to one lane (already crowded with buses etc) may not be the best outcome if it eventuates. I would have thought North Terrace past the Uni, Museum etc would make more sense esp.with the Old RAH site going. I think North Tce would also allow more room for road widening.

Severe lack of parking? There's seven (seven!) multi-level car parks in the East End.

The tram line along Grenfell St in the 30yr transport plan is for the West-Link and East-Link lines. A city loop tram would use North Tce.

[Nort]

I like this plan. It creates a great events space on the east of the city and will make for lightning fast public transport into town from the North East.

Its better than what it was before. But I still do not see the need for a tunnel. We really should be focusing on the long term solution here, which is to convert the O-Bahn to a heavy rail corridor.

Out of curiosity, why is that?

I don't know the O-Bahn numbers but I imagine it has quite a lot of space to grow before reaching capacity. Also unless it was orphaned off from the rest of the network, heavy rail connection would involve much more expensive tunnelling, and if there was the political will for train tunnels under town I think a connection of the North/South lines to create a city loop would be much more beneficial.

[Nort]

I think it's a good idea to join Rundle Park and Rymill Park but still think there is a need for an (underground) Rundle Road beneath the new joined parklands or an alternative was if this whole area was used for a massive underground car park under the parklands as there is a severe lack of parking in the East end. Thoughts?
Also the potential East Tram image reducing Grenfell St to one lane (already crowded with buses etc) may not be the best outcome if it eventuates. I would have thought North Terrace past the Uni, Museum etc would make more sense esp.with the Old RAH site going. I think North Tce would also allow more room for road widening.

Severe lack of parking? There's seven (seven!) multi-level car parks in the East End.

The tram line along Grenfell St in the 30yr transport plan is for the West-Link and East-Link lines. A city loop tram would use North Tce.

Rundle Road does currently provide a lot of car parking spots that are great for when popping to Rundle Street for a bite to eat without costing an arm and a leg.

That said, these plans are designed to reduce congestion, and while I'd personally miss those parking spots, it would definitely encourage travelling into town in other ways while improving the efficiency of public transport so it succeeds.

[[Shuz]]

I like this plan. It creates a great events space on the east of the city and will make for lightning fast public transport into town from the North East.

Its better than what it was before. But I still do not see the need for a tunnel. We really should be focusing on the long term solution here, which is to convert the O-Bahn to a heavy rail corridor.

Out of curiosity, why is that?

I don't know the O-Bahn numbers but I imagine it has quite a lot of space to grow before reaching capacity. Also unless it was orphaned off from the rest of the network, heavy rail connection would involve much more expensive tunnelling, and if there was the political will for train tunnels under town I think a connection of the North/South lines to create a city loop would be much more beneficial.

That's why I said the long-term plan should be to make it a train tunnel. I agree the O-Bahn has some capacity yet before it maxes out. Having said that, the short / medium term plan should be to just paint the town red with bus lanes along Hackney Road from the O-Bahn portal at Gilberton to the realigned Rundle Road and onto Grenfell Street.

That would still deliver travel time savings at absolutely minimal capital cost. The tunnel itself would only save a couple of minutes, which is rather expensive for $160m. Surely it'd cost only $20m at most, to paint a couple of lanes red for bus only use, lay down some asphalt for a realigned Rundle Road and associated urban design works. The other $140m could then go into things that reallllllly need to be done like the Gawler electrification which should've been done 7 years ago as first promised!

If we're going to be building train tunnels, I also agree we should be joining up the Gawler and Seaford lines as a priority. However, second priority to that would be to convert the O-Bahn to heavy rail and link it to the Adelaide Railway Station / CBD Loop.

[ml69]

I like this plan. It creates a great events space on the east of the city and will make for lightning fast public transport into town from the North East.

Its better than what it was before. But I still do not see the need for a tunnel. We really should be focusing on the long term solution here, which is to convert the O-Bahn to a heavy rail corridor.

Out of curiosity, why is that?

I don't know the O-Bahn numbers but I imagine it has quite a lot of space to grow before reaching capacity. Also unless it was orphaned off from the rest of the network, heavy rail connection would involve much more expensive tunnelling, and if there was the political will for train tunnels under town I think a connection of the North/South lines to create a city loop would be much more beneficial.

That's why I said the long-term plan should be to make it a train tunnel. I agree the O-Bahn has some capacity yet before it maxes out. Having said that, the short / medium term plan should be to just paint the town red with bus lanes along Hackney Road from the O-Bahn portal at Gilberton to the realigned Rundle Road and onto Grenfell Street.

That would still deliver travel time savings at absolutely minimal capital cost. The tunnel itself would only save a couple of minutes, which is rather expensive for $160m. Surely it'd cost only $20m at most, to paint a couple of lanes red for bus only use, lay down some asphalt for a realigned Rundle Road and associated urban design works. The other $140m could then go into things that reallllllly need to be done like the Gawler electrification which should've been done 7 years ago as first promised!

If we're going to be building train tunnels, I also agree we should be joining up the Gawler and Seaford lines as a priority. However, second priority to that would be to convert the O-Bahn to heavy rail and link it to the Adelaide Railway Station / CBD Loop.

I think the O Bahn tunnel proposal effectively indicates that the government has no intention whatsoever of converting O Bahn to heavy rail. If they did, they wouldn't be spending so much money on it now.

I think the O Bahn work very effectively for the area that it serves. And bear in mind future Adelaide growth will be minimal in the NE suburbs. Growth will be predominantly in the Northern suburbs with some in the Southern suburbs. With our limited resources, we are better served by spending it on the CBD tunnel linking Gawler and Seaford lines, and East and West tram links.

[jk1237]

It seems Jay has just found a 1950's street directory- when trams ran down Grenfell St then straight across the parklands (through Rymill park) to Dequetteville Tce and on to Norwood via Rundle St Kent Town. See map at
http://www.trammuseumadelaide.com.au/im ... decity.pdf
So it 's back to the future.

it just makes basic sense to have the busy wide road (Grenfell St) continue through the parklands to Kent Town rather than a narrow little high street (Rundle St) that is trying to discourage car traffic and encourage foot traffic. I have never understood why this ever happened after the tram line was ripped up, its almost moronic. We now have brain dead car drivers clogging up Rundle Street atm because they realise that Rundle St continues onto to be Rundle Road through Kent Town. However all they need to do is drive east along Grenfell, turn left at East tce and the right onto Rundle Rd and they would have saved themselves 15 mins from being stuck in a Rundle Street traffic jam. If Grenfell St was the through Rd to Kent Town and not Rundle Street, you wouldn't have one little bit of traffic build up on Rundle St which is currently what happens, and it will make alfresco dining a little bit nicer without endless car fumes. Who cares if the obahn thing goes ahead, just reroute the road from Kent Town direct to Grenfell St now, as it would make the traffic flow 300% more efficient than the set up currently