[U/C] M2 North-South Motorway

[[Shuz]]

It took them two years to develop that!?

It could take a group of university students 6 weeks to present the same thing!

Half of the information is stating the blindingly obvious, and the other half is just regurgitating the same point over and over again.

It seems to me the $10m spent was just basically to cover staff wages and nothing else. Complete and utter incompetence strikes DPTI again.

[phenom]

Without seeing the actual terms of reference or whatever it was underpinning this study it's hard for me to judge what it was supposed to do.

There's certainly no way you'd get even basic engineering studies for all of those segments of the NS corridor for $10m though.

Either way, both Governments need to get their act together because there's a really good chance we need to have 'shovel ready' projects in the next few years if the goldilocks scenario for the world economy (and therefore ours) doesn't pan out.

The only way big time Federal funding will come for this (in a hurry) is in the event of a bigtime economic downturn if China slows etc and we absolutely must be ready to go. NSW missed out during the GFC because they seemed to have the same aversion to preparing projects ready to fund.

[rev]

It took them two years to develop that!?

It could take a group of university students 6 weeks to present the same thing!

Half of the information is stating the blindingly obvious, and the other half is just regurgitating the same point over and over again.

It seems to me the $10m spent was just basically to cover staff wages and nothing else. Complete and utter incompetence strikes DPTI again.

Shuz this is how governments operate.
If they got all technical and in depth in public documents, people would accuse them of wasting money and complicating things.


Anyway, today Hockey is saying we will need TOLLS to make the further upgrade of South Road into a non-stop corridor viable.

I'm struggling to see where the 44km of South Road has already been upgraded to non-stop? I know it's the Crapvertiser, so accurate reporting and fact checking is beyond their capabilities, so I assume they are referring to the Northern Expressway-23km and Southern Expressway -21km.

[ChillyPhilly]

Some interesting stuff in that. One aspect that stood out to me was the preparation of an alternative N-S route.

[Nathan]

Anyway, today Hockey is saying we will need TOLLS to make the further upgrade of South Road into a non-stop corridor viable.

Wasn't Hockey complaining a week or so ago that SA didn't have any infrastructure projects he could spend money on?

[rhino]

I'm struggling to see where the 44km of South Road has already been upgraded to non-stop? I know it's the Crapvertiser, so accurate reporting and fact checking is beyond their capabilities, so I assume they are referring to the Northern Expressway-23km and Southern Expressway -21km.

That is correct. They mention that the North-South Corridor stretches from Gawler to Old Noarlunga, so both the expressways are included in the corridor - it's not just South Road.

[rev]

Well the amateurs should have included the 4+km section that is the "North-South motorway" aka Superway.

Anyway, from what I can see in that document, it looks like we have another 5 stages at least, if they don't break down the bigger "areas" into smaller ones.
Torrens to Torrens and Darlington are going ahead now, that's Area 3 and 7.
Area 5 is fairly large but could be done in one stage. Area 6 on the other hand south of the Glenelg tram line is huge.
Why have they split the section between Regency and Torrens roads into two areas? And Area 4 between 5 and 3, that little bridge some of you were talking about near the Cemetary at Hindmarsh between T2T and Ashwin Parade..

[claybro]

No point anyone blaming the Federal Gov for delays with this project. Both Labour and Liberal FEDERAL governments via infrastructure Australia have made it quite clear over many many years now, they are prepared to commit funds to this whole corridor project if
1. There is a detailed plan in place, and
2. There is consideration for a funding plan ie Tolls.
As the state governent is still stuggling to come up with point 1. and has made it clear point 2 is not an option, well the Feds have nothing to spend money on as yet for the middle and most difficult sections. The blame needs to be placed squarely at the state governments feet, and to do otherwise just lets them off the hook to continue pointing the finger elsewhere.

[Patrick_27]

No point anyone blaming the Federal Gov for delays with this project. Both Labour and Liberal FEDERAL governments via infrastructure Australia have made it quite clear over many many years now, they are prepared to commit funds to this whole corridor project if
1. There is a detailed plan in place, and
2. There is consideration for a funding plan ie Tolls.
As the state governent is still stuggling to come up with point 1. and has made it clear point 2 is not an option, well the Feds have nothing to spend money on as yet for the middle and most difficult sections. The blame needs to be placed squarely at the state governments feet, and to do otherwise just lets them off the hook to continue pointing the finger elsewhere.

Hate to get political, but you couldn't have made it more obviously which side of politics you swing.

I completely disagree. The NC plans have been there for years, Darlington's plans were there for years. The federal government/s (until recently) have been pretty consistent in only funding road projects that have a direct benefit to freight.

[claybro]

Hate to get political, but you couldn't have made it more obviously which side of politics you swing.

HMM, my comment clearly states that federal Gov of BOTH persuasions over many years have wanted to commit to a plan for this corridor. Fail to see how this is biased.
As for the Darlington plans? How many times has this been changed in the past decade?
As for the freight priorities?...this corridor is clearly aimed primarily at freight and is therefore attracting the attendtion of infrastructure Australia, who have demonstrated absolute dismay at the South Australian government for many years ove the constant mixed messages on this.

[Wayno]

I agree claybro. I'm politically agnostic and 9 of 10 fingers point at the state govt.

[rev]

If you want to get political, you can blame both sides of politics stretching back decades. Why? Because a north-south freeway/motorway has been needed for decades. Right now it's at the critical stage. I dare anyone to disagree, then I suggest they spend the day simulating dry runs between random businesses across Adelaide, sticking to the speed limits.
Both sides of politics, federal and state, could have done something to fix South Road properly. No side of politics did, until now.
And now we have a stoush between federal liberals and state labor about planning studies and funding and whatever other bullshit. This is why I hate politics and politicians.
Because while they argue and point the finger at each other, nothing gets done and we suffer.
And lets not pretend that this isn't to do with state politics exclusively. The state government is trying to stay in power and keep the liberals out, while the federal liberals are trying to hurt the state labor government to benefit the state liberals. That's the bottom line.
Now lets not buy into this crappy game of politics, and simply demand that they get on with the bloody job of improving our city's and states infrastructure.

[Jaymz]

Let's hope this gets done. And I for one am more than happy for it to be a toll road. Let's move into this century and
stop thinking we live in some overgrown country town.

[[Shuz]]

It took them two years to develop that!?

It could take a group of university students 6 weeks to present the same thing!

Half of the information is stating the blindingly obvious, and the other half is just regurgitating the same point over and over again.

It seems to me the $10m spent was just basically to cover staff wages and nothing else. Complete and utter incompetence strikes DPTI again.

Shuz this is how governments operate.

I know how government operates. I spent four years in State Government. It's all about paper shuffling, long lunches, and convoluted bureaucracy. Nothing ever sticks to the brief, gets done on time, or on budget. The way some departments operate just simply would not be tolerated in the real world.

Ive since moved into the real world. A private firm would have delivered twice the content, in half the time and on budget.

[rubberman]

It took them two years to develop that!?

It could take a group of university students 6 weeks to present the same thing!

Half of the information is stating the blindingly obvious, and the other half is just regurgitating the same point over and over again.

It seems to me the $10m spent was just basically to cover staff wages and nothing else. Complete and utter incompetence strikes DPTI again.

Shuz this is how governments operate.

I know how government operates. I spent four years in State Government. It's all about paper shuffling, long lunches, and convoluted bureaucracy. Nothing ever sticks to the brief, gets done on time, or on budget. The way some departments operate just simply would not be tolerated in the real world.

Ive since moved into the real world. A private firm would have delivered twice the content, in half the time and on budget.

Actually shuz, the evidence is clear that private firms are costing huge amounts of money. I have worked in both private and public areas, and seen some shocking ripoffs of the taxpayer by private firms. All quite legal of course.

I have no doubt that you are correct, that they could deliver twice the content in half the time and on budget, but they don't. They charge like wounded bulls. That is, yes they do it cheaply as you say, but those savings are not passed onto the taxpayer. Indeed, why should a private firm pass savings onto the taxpayer? A private firm is not there for the benefit of the taxpayer, it is there for the benefit of its share holders. Almost all work is done by private firms, from investigations right through to final construction. So if things cost a lot, that's where most of the money goes right now. Almost nothing is done by government except dither.

In this case the reason for the dithering is because every time anyone suggested a Freeway (sorry for using the F word folks), all the NIMBYs have come out swinging and killed the idea. Blaming politicians for doing what the public wants is a bit rough in my view. Even now, we can't call this thing a F***WAY (shhhhhhhh), it's got to be a convoluted form of words that mean the same thing. I mean if we were to point out that this is pretty much what the MATS Plan was going to do, it would probably cause a bit of a problem...so let's not go there.