"The living dead"Patrick_27 wrote:Dear God... Look at them all!crawf wrote:Taken from their Facebook page, ACC meeting.
Look at all the young folk
Similarly a protest in the mall had ten or so oldies holding signs and talking to the media. How is it that the media in this city can't have a reporter to cover on real issues but can spare a reporter to rock up to these stupid protests?
News & Discussion: O-Bahn
Re: News & Discussion: O-Bahn
Re: News & Discussion: O-Bahn
One way to significantly increase the size of the parklands would be to remove the CBD from the middle.Wayno wrote:you can read the APPAs full submission here: http://www.adelaide-parklands.org/pdfs/ ... 0FINAL.pdf
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Re: News & Discussion: O-Bahn
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/messenger ... 7358298224
Norwood, Payneham & St Peters Council refuses to endorse O-Bahn tunnel
Daniela Abbracciavento East Torrens Messenger
The Advertiser
May 17, 2015 10:13PM
THE State Government’s $160 million plan for an O-Bahn tunnel under Hackney Rd has failed to win the support of the local council.
At its meeting last week, Norwood, Payneham & St Peters Council refused to endorse the government’s O-Bahn upgrade plans amid concerns the changes would create traffic chaos on Hackney Rd and congestion in nearby residential streets.
Instead, the council called for more detailed designs and traffic-management solutions.
A report to the council said, under the current plans, access to and from Hackney Rd from side roads including Westbury, Botanic and Richmond streets and Athelney Ave would be compromised.
It also raised concerns with potential traffic congestion on residential streets as motorists attempted to avoid expected delays at the North Tce/Hackney Rd intersection.
An artist’s impression of the planned O-Bahn tunnel from Hackney to Rundle Road. This is
An artist’s impression of the planned O-Bahn tunnel from Hackney to Rundle Road. This is Hackney Rd looking south.
Questions over pedestrian and cyclist safety along Hackney Rd were also highlighted.
Councillor Sophia MacRae told the meeting it was hard to make a decision without having all the details about how the concerns would be alleviated.
“It’s difficult to really give this project our full support when we don’t have all the details and it is important that these concerns are addressed and taken seriously,” Cr MacRae said.
“We should get a detailed (report) … then we will be able to make a more considered decision.”
The tunnel entry and exit points on Hackney Rd, looking north.
The tunnel entry and exit points on Hackney Rd, looking north.
Hackney resident Serena Coulls, who has been leading a community push against the O-Bahn changes, applauded the council’s decision but demanded it do more to formally oppose the plans.
“The report itself didn’t take the opportunity to advocate for local residents, so that was very disappointing,” Ms Coulls said.
“It was very heartening to see that the councillors were largely aware of the issues and were taking a wider view because that’s required.
“I think that at the moment Hackney and College Park are the sacrificial lambs for the O-Bahn project and I’m hoping the government consider our requests for changes and address our concerns.”
She estimates the changes will stop more than 1300 Hackney and College Park residents turning right from Hackney Rd into residential streets.
Speaking after the meeting, Mayor Robert Bria said the council “made the right call”.
“Right now, there are still too many outstanding details in terms of the impact the proposed changes to Hackney Rd will have on local residents,” Mr Bria said.
In an emailed statement, the Transport Department refused to say when a more detailed report would be released.
But the statement said feedback from the consultation was being reviewed and the department
“acknowledged the importance of issues raised by the community and would continue to work with residents and key stakeholders”.
*Looks at Dyson Airblade Factory* "I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit, it's the only way to be sure"
Re: News & Discussion: O-Bahn
Ignoring the off-hand disparagement of the APPA submission - I think the recent submissions from the impacted Councils demonstrate that this is a political project and not fully thought through as yet - and we must stop to think through strategically how best to allocate $160M to maximise the opportunity - I hope DPTI and Government sit back and think more broadly about this entire NE cnr of the city and conclude that we can achieve something much better for all concerned than simply ramming through a promise made to secure some politicians seats.
Re: News & Discussion: O-Bahn
What's so off hand and disparaging about comments regarding the lies the APPA spread?zippySA wrote:Ignoring the off-hand disparagement of the APPA submission - I think the recent submissions from the impacted Councils demonstrate that this is a political project and not fully thought through as yet - and we must stop to think through strategically how best to allocate $160M to maximise the opportunity - I hope DPTI and Government sit back and think more broadly about this entire NE cnr of the city and conclude that we can achieve something much better for all concerned than simply ramming through a promise made to secure some politicians seats.
They are claiming a damn highway is going to be built through the parklands, when that's not the case.
For all concerned? You mean the APPA and other fringe lunatic groups?
Sorry, but these lunatic groups and their insane rants and "concerns" should be ignored and cast aside like three day old left over chicken.
Re: News & Discussion: O-Bahn
I did actually read the APPA submission - and I cannot see why so much rage at this document? It is after all: public consultation, roadworks in parklands that are protected by legislation and as per my previous posts, a poor scheme that really needs a re-think before proceeding. Apart from some funny photo-shopping, they do raise a significant number of valid concerns - and the level of information released by the Government for said "consultation" does seem to indicate that it is tokenistic only and to humour the people!
Consultation requires all groups to be able to provide a response - and yes, groups that have a single mission statement such as APPA will always have a single position on projects such as this - but hell, I took my kids to play in Rymill park last weekend - and once the multitude of trees get removed and the glorified "tunnel" which will really be a cut and cover trench runs past the northern edge of the lake - then pop out at grade, it will become crap there.
Then again - that's just my view - but why does Adelaide insist on doing things half-baked like this - the parklands are a globally unique asset and so either stick to existing roadways or truly go underground via a real tunnel and not this other crap proposed!
Consultation requires all groups to be able to provide a response - and yes, groups that have a single mission statement such as APPA will always have a single position on projects such as this - but hell, I took my kids to play in Rymill park last weekend - and once the multitude of trees get removed and the glorified "tunnel" which will really be a cut and cover trench runs past the northern edge of the lake - then pop out at grade, it will become crap there.
Then again - that's just my view - but why does Adelaide insist on doing things half-baked like this - the parklands are a globally unique asset and so either stick to existing roadways or truly go underground via a real tunnel and not this other crap proposed!
Re: News & Discussion: O-Bahn
I agree ZippySa that if the O'Bahn project goes ahead then it must include a 'better than the existing Rymill Park' solution in the plan. What makes Rymill Park fantastic is only partially it's physical location. It's mostly the great amenity and aspect provided in the park, and it's actually a superb example of what the greater park lands could become.
Lobbying could be aimed at mandating a Rymill Park equivalent or better be created BEFORE even one spadeful of soil is removed for the O'Bahn project.
I do understand the governments plans will produce a net increase in park lands and include plans to increase amenity of that space, but it will be used annually for lengthy periods (fringe, etc). So a separate park, equivalent or better than Rymill Park (with a lake, cafe and more) is required - the western side of park 15 (bounded by bartels, wakefield, east terrace, dequetteville) may be suited.
Lobbying could be aimed at mandating a Rymill Park equivalent or better be created BEFORE even one spadeful of soil is removed for the O'Bahn project.
I do understand the governments plans will produce a net increase in park lands and include plans to increase amenity of that space, but it will be used annually for lengthy periods (fringe, etc). So a separate park, equivalent or better than Rymill Park (with a lake, cafe and more) is required - the western side of park 15 (bounded by bartels, wakefield, east terrace, dequetteville) may be suited.
Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work.
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Re: News & Discussion: O-Bahn
Trouble is, it is not particularly clear what the problem is with the proposal. Yes, people are agin it, I get that, but when one looks at the substance of the objections, they are not really that great. Most of them are relatively minor in the scheme of things. Some of these no doubt will be attended to as part of the consultation process. Meaning that probably there will be only a few minor things that can't be dealt with.
I guess what is annoying is that the Government has asked for consultation, so people can naturally bring up issues like they have. But really, they should be saving their ammo and anger for the situation if and when the government doesn't take any notice. At the moment it smells of grumpy old men trying to assert their relevance.
Let's just wait and see what the government's response is. IF that is not satisfactory, then is the time to get all huffy and self righteous, not now.
I guess what is annoying is that the Government has asked for consultation, so people can naturally bring up issues like they have. But really, they should be saving their ammo and anger for the situation if and when the government doesn't take any notice. At the moment it smells of grumpy old men trying to assert their relevance.
Let's just wait and see what the government's response is. IF that is not satisfactory, then is the time to get all huffy and self righteous, not now.
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Re: News & Discussion: O-Bahn
I read it as the tunnel route will stay as planned and surface somewhere around the end of Grenfell Street but the road (and therefore the easy potential for future light rail across Rymill Park) will not be realigned. Might be wrong though...
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/sout ... 7390392550
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/sout ... 7390392550
RYMILL Park is poised to be saved and Rundle Rd will stay, under expected changes to the State Government’s O-Bahn extension plan.
This follows confirmation that a new city school will be established in a UniSA building, as revealed by The Advertiser last month, instead of on the old Royal Adelaide Hospital site as promised.
Sources say the O-Bahn changes will be considered a win for residents, community and business leaders who have campaigned strongly against the proposal they say would “butcher” the popular park.
The Advertiser understands Transport Minister Stephen Mullighan met Adelaide City councillors at a confidential meeting last night to discuss the plan ahead of an announcement on Wednesday.
Since the Government in February unveiled revised plans for the $160 million project, which built on an election commitment, it has faced strident opposition from councils, business groups, residents and other political parties.
$160 million tunnel for O-Bahn buses
$160 million tunnel for O-Bahn buses
The proposal had included a tunnel for O-Bahn buses under Hackney Rd and surfacing in Rymill Park.
Rundle Rd was set to be closed and a new four-lane road put across Rymill Park, connecting Dequetteville Tce with Grenfell St.
When contacted on Tuesday night, Mr Mullighan would not comment on Wednesday’s announcement.
But he confirmed The Advertiser’s report on radio on Wednesday morning.
Mr Mullighan said that Rundle Rd would stay, and the proposed new road across Rymill Park would be scrapped.
The new model will still include an O-Bahn tunnel that will surface somewhere in Rymill Park in alignment with Grenfell St.
Despite the new plan no longer returning the existing Rundle Rd to parklands, Mr Mullighan said there would be no net reduction in parklands.
“We think we have come up with a scheme that leaves the parklands better off than what we have today in terms of the overall area of open space,” he said on ABC radio.
Mr Mullighan denied the O-Bahn rethink was an embarrassing backflip.
“The reason why we had such a long consultation process was to seek feedback ... and I think we have listened,” he said.
Last week, more than 1000 people met in Rymill Park to protest against the plans.
Rymill Park Alliance spokesman Andrew Robertson said the campaign, started by residents, had clearly struck a chord in the community, bringing together business and parklands preservation groups and politicians from all sides.
“When the project was announced, people thought it was a tunnel under Rymill Park, but it was actually a road through it,” he said.
“The parklands should be preserved and protected as a tourism asset and Rymill Park is the jewel in the crown, so to decimate it is unthinkable.
“Closing Rundle Rd and losing the parking was going to have a major impact on businesses in the East End, as well as visitors to the city who come in to go to the movies, cafes, restaurants and shops.”
Independent Senator Nick Xenophon had called the road through Rymill Park “an act of butchery”.
Lord Mayor Martin Haese had called for Rundle Rd to remain in place and said the extension would have a “massive” effect on Grenfell and Currie streets, creating a congestion problem.
Business SA’s State Budget submission called for the whole project to be scrapped, stating the money would be better spent on the Northern Connector section of the north-south corridor.
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Re: News & Discussion: O-Bahn
The reasoning I don't get from those against the plan: They don't want a 20m landscaped road through the parklands (cars bad), but want to keep the 40m barren moat of a road through the parklands because they don't want to lose parking (cars good).
As someone working in the East End, with a view of Rundle Park and Rundle Rd - I would have been very happy to see it gone. It's creates a far greater barrier between Rundle Park and Rymill Park than the new road ever would have, it funnels through traffic down Rundle St, the bike lane is flat out dangerous thanks to cars using it as a "looking for a park lane" (or zipping across it with no warning when they do suddenly spot one), and does nothing for connecting the parks to the East End.
As someone working in the East End, with a view of Rundle Park and Rundle Rd - I would have been very happy to see it gone. It's creates a far greater barrier between Rundle Park and Rymill Park than the new road ever would have, it funnels through traffic down Rundle St, the bike lane is flat out dangerous thanks to cars using it as a "looking for a park lane" (or zipping across it with no warning when they do suddenly spot one), and does nothing for connecting the parks to the East End.
Re: News & Discussion: O-Bahn
I agree, they should still get rid of the Rundle Road extension. the focus should be to improve the traffic elsewhere.Nathan wrote:The reasoning I don't get from those against the plan: They don't want a 20m landscaped road through the parklands (cars bad), but want to keep the 40m barren moat of a road through the parklands because they don't want to lose parking (cars good).
As someone working in the East End, with a view of Rundle Park and Rundle Rd - I would have been very happy to see it gone. It's creates a far greater barrier between Rundle Park and Rymill Park than the new road ever would have, it funnels through traffic down Rundle St, the bike lane is flat out dangerous thanks to cars using it as a "looking for a park lane" (or zipping across it with no warning when they do suddenly spot one), and does nothing for connecting the parks to the East End.
plenty of paid parking in the east.
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Re: News & Discussion: O-Bahn
New plan and video below.
It addresses some of my issues with Rundle Rd. I think the two corners of the parks need some strong entry statements though so that we can still get that connection of the parks to the East End. I'd also like to see the at grade pedestrian crossings gone, and to have them underneath the road (the road is already on a raised embankment), so that there is a true connection between the two parks.
Sadly the separated bike lanes on East Tce look to have lost out in favour of parking.
It addresses some of my issues with Rundle Rd. I think the two corners of the parks need some strong entry statements though so that we can still get that connection of the parks to the East End. I'd also like to see the at grade pedestrian crossings gone, and to have them underneath the road (the road is already on a raised embankment), so that there is a true connection between the two parks.
Sadly the separated bike lanes on East Tce look to have lost out in favour of parking.
Re: News & Discussion: O-Bahn
I like that we have a tunnel it is a shame that it is only ever going to be a 2 lane busway - but still sounds like it is going to be the best outcome for now.
things I don't like but not sure they can address
I like to re-alignment of East terrace, however i just don't like the traffic flow. They need to somehow connect Grenfell to Bartels road to reflect the actual traffic movement, all they have done is tack on another set of lights for the bus I would love for them to look at East terrace, Rundle Road Grenfell and Bartell/Flinders and come up with a soltution - or even better get the bus lane under that intersection all together
Keeping Rundle Road - that just annoys me, seriously traders lobbying for more parking is frustrating, why should they get the benefits of the parkland at the expense of the average citizen? aren't we meant to be improving PT and bike riding. It isn't like the cost of those parks isn't pretty much the same as undercover anyway.
things I don't like but not sure they can address
I like to re-alignment of East terrace, however i just don't like the traffic flow. They need to somehow connect Grenfell to Bartels road to reflect the actual traffic movement, all they have done is tack on another set of lights for the bus I would love for them to look at East terrace, Rundle Road Grenfell and Bartell/Flinders and come up with a soltution - or even better get the bus lane under that intersection all together
Keeping Rundle Road - that just annoys me, seriously traders lobbying for more parking is frustrating, why should they get the benefits of the parkland at the expense of the average citizen? aren't we meant to be improving PT and bike riding. It isn't like the cost of those parks isn't pretty much the same as undercover anyway.
Re: News & Discussion: O-Bahn
Disappointed to lose the Seperated bike lane on East terrace, but if one gets built on Rundle Road between Dequetteville and East Terrace to bring bike traffic in from the East then I think that'll be a good visible alternative to driving in from the Eastern Suburbs:) Of course with Haese in charge, I'm never too confident that cars wont always be the eventual winner in ACC traffic management decisions:(
Whilst this isn't a game changer.. I feel it is important to reinforce the good work the O-Bahn does in keeping people using PT. A tunnel will eliminate the peak hour traffic snarls that slow the service down and will inevitably make using the O-bahn even more attractive as an alternative to driving all of the way into the city. Hope this version of the plan gets up. Once again though it shows that a small group of vocal cardigan wearers in this city can hold the rest of us to ransom.
Whilst this isn't a game changer.. I feel it is important to reinforce the good work the O-Bahn does in keeping people using PT. A tunnel will eliminate the peak hour traffic snarls that slow the service down and will inevitably make using the O-bahn even more attractive as an alternative to driving all of the way into the city. Hope this version of the plan gets up. Once again though it shows that a small group of vocal cardigan wearers in this city can hold the rest of us to ransom.
Big infrastructure investments are usually under-valued and & over-criticized while in the planning stage. It's much easier to envision the here and now costs and inconveniences, and far more difficult to imagine fully the eventual benefits.
Re: News & Discussion: O-Bahn
Common sense has well and truly gone out the window. Really - it's worse than what the current setup is. Traffic still being funneled into Rundle Street, more carparking, less bicycle lanes, no provision for a tram extension to the Parade, parkland lost and we will be $160m poorer for it.
Transport policy in this state has gone to the shits. Can't we ever get something done right for fucking once?
Transport policy in this state has gone to the shits. Can't we ever get something done right for fucking once?
Any views and opinions expressed are of my own, and do not reflect the views or opinions of any organisation of which I have an affiliation with.
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