News & Discussion: Adelaide City Council

[Wayno]

The city ring route just isn't functional enough in its present state to entice cross-city traffic to avoid the CBD -- particularly for those travelling east/west.

This is an important point. Its no use chipping away at the available "thru" routes of the CBD, by the tactics of reducing limits, narrowing of roads, poor sequencing of lights, if something is not done immediately about the next to useless ring route. It is still quicker to travel from Main North Road to Hyde Park via King William Street than the bypass. Visa versa the CBD will never be free of unnecessary traffic until a proper viable ring route is established ie, no, or limited traffic lights. The only cars in the CBD core should ultimately be local residents, delivery vehicles and public transport ie taxis.

How would you resolve for the major intersections such as Greenhill Rd / Fullarton Rd, Anzac Hwy / Greenhill Rd, etc? I suppose just a series of under/over passes?

[mshagg]

Greenhill should be easy - fix up the Anzac Highway intersection (I said easy, not cheap) and I would remove the Sir Lewin Cohen intersection. (Ideally the Hutt street extension as well)

I use both of them frequently but agree they're completely unnecessary; the southern parklands are well and truly overserviced by roads. Sir lewis is little more than a carpark. If they were serious about the ring route they wouldn't allow on-street parking on greenhill road, either.

[Waewick]

Greenhill should be easy - fix up the Anzac Highway intersection (I said easy, not cheap) and I would remove the Sir Lewin Cohen intersection. (Ideally the Hutt street extension as well)

I use both of them frequently but agree they're completely unnecessary; the southern parklands are well and truly overserviced by roads. Sir lewis is little more than a carpark. If they were serious about the ring route they wouldn't allow on-street parking on greenhill road, either.

Yeah that is a huge bugbear of mine.

There are two issues in the east I can't see how they'll ever resolve. The Britannia roundabout and choosing between Fullarton road and Glen Osmond Rd. Shouldn't have both hitting Greenhill imo.

[Maximus]

see I think we should be trying to make the ring route better the encourage usage

I absolutely agree with this part. I take issue with the ideology that because 'Road B' is where we want cars to drive, not 'Road A', we should actively make Road A less attractive (via reduced speed limits, additional traffic furniture, etc) so that drivers use Road B. To me, that's just lazy. It's an easy way out that addresses the symptom, not that cause, and it's a classic case of cutting off your nose to spite your face. Also, frankly, it's just downright mean-spirited... "We've made Road A an exercise in frustration for drivers, and Road B is dysfunctional and far from your optimal route, so either way you're f**ked... But you're less f**ked if you use Road B. So bravo to us, we've solved the problem!"

[claybro]

see I think we should be trying to make the ring route better the encourage usage

I absolutely agree with this part. I take issue with the ideology that because 'Road B' is where we want cars to drive, not 'Road A', we should actively make Road A less attractive (via reduced speed limits, additional traffic furniture, etc) so that drivers use Road B. To me, that's just lazy. It's an easy way out that addresses the symptom, not that cause, and it's a classic case of cutting off your nose to spite your face. Also, frankly, it's just downright mean-spirited... "We've made Road A an exercise in frustration for drivers, and Road B is dysfunctional and far from your optimal route, so either way you're f**ked... But you're less f**ked if you use Road B. So bravo to us, we've solved the problem!"

Pretty much sums up local government in general!

[Llessur2002]

I absolutely agree with this part. I take issue with the ideology that because 'Road B' is where we want cars to drive, not 'Road A', we should actively make Road A less attractive (via reduced speed limits, additional traffic furniture, etc) so that drivers use Road B. To me, that's just lazy. It's an easy way out that addresses the symptom, not that cause, and it's a classic case of cutting off your nose to spite your face. Also, frankly, it's just downright mean-spirited... "We've made Road A an exercise in frustration for drivers, and Road B is dysfunctional and far from your optimal route, so either way you're f**ked... But you're less f**ked if you use Road B. So bravo to us, we've solved the problem!"

Agree with this in principle but in practice I don't think it's always as clear cut. Whilst it would be nice to chuck £70m at the ring road and make the whole thing brilliant overnight, in reality projects happen separately in stages as and when funding allows. In reality the ring road's slowly being improved, whilst the CBD is gradually being made a less attractive option.

Britannia Roundabout's been fixed, in my opinion very well, Park Terrace has been widened and the upcoming Torrens Junction improvements will have a massive positive impact on the western part of the route. In a couple of years it should be much better than it was five years ago. I don't think it ridiculous that there should be no changes made to the CBD in that time to start the diversion of traffic onto the ringroad. Hopefully the ringroad will continue to improve until it's perfect - at which point it should be next to impossible to drive directly through the CBD. Whilst it's not the easiest route at the moment - it's certainly not impossible and some people would argue it's still quicker than the ring road....

[Waewick]

I absolutely agree with this part. I take issue with the ideology that because 'Road B' is where we want cars to drive, not 'Road A', we should actively make Road A less attractive (via reduced speed limits, additional traffic furniture, etc) so that drivers use Road B. To me, that's just lazy. It's an easy way out that addresses the symptom, not that cause, and it's a classic case of cutting off your nose to spite your face. Also, frankly, it's just downright mean-spirited... "We've made Road A an exercise in frustration for drivers, and Road B is dysfunctional and far from your optimal route, so either way you're f**ked... But you're less f**ked if you use Road B. So bravo to us, we've solved the problem!"

Agree with this in principle but in practice I don't think it's always as clear cut. Whilst it would be nice to chuck £70m at the ring road and make the whole thing brilliant overnight, in reality projects happen separately in stages as and when funding allows. In reality the ring road's slowly being improved, whilst the CBD is gradually being made a less attractive option.

Britannia Roundabout's been fixed, in my opinion very well, Park Terrace has been widened and the upcoming Torrens Junction improvements will have a massive positive impact on the western part of the route. In a couple of years it should be much better than it was five years ago. I don't think it ridiculous that there should be no changes made to the CBD in that time to start the diversion of traffic onto the ringroad. Hopefully the ringroad will continue to improve until it's perfect - at which point it should be next to impossible to drive directly through the CBD. Whilst it's not the easiest route at the moment - it's certainly not impossible and some people would argue it's still quicker than the ring road....

I drive the roundabout every day. If that's fixed well I must say my expectations of the ring route ever being functional has dimished significantly.

[Llessur2002]

I drive the roundabout every day. If that's fixed well I must say my expectations of the ring route ever being functional has dimished significantly.

Like the rest of the ring road, I never drive it in peak hour but outside of peak it functions perfectly.

What's the problem? Is it a bottleneck issue or just the fact it's two roundabouts combined? Fair enough if it's the first, but if it's the latter then hopefully Adelaide's drivers can adapt with time and learn how to use the thing properly - double roundabouts aren't by any means unusual throughout much of Europe.

Don't mean to sound condescending on that one - just genuinely interested as to why this part of the route isn't considered fixed when it seems 100x better to me.

[Waewick]

I drive the roundabout every day. If that's fixed well I must say my expectations of the ring route ever being functional has dimished significantly.

Like the rest of the ring road, I never drive it in peak hour but outside of peak it functions perfectly.

What's the problem? Is it a bottleneck issue or just the fact it's two roundabouts combined? Fair enough if it's the first, but if it's the latter then hopefully Adelaide's drivers can adapt with time and learn how to use the thing properly - double roundabouts aren't by any means unusual throughout much of Europe.

Don't mean to sound condescending on that one - just genuinely interested as to why this part of the route isn't considered fixed when it seems 100x better to me.

It magnificently fails during any form of congestion. Especially peak hour.

I understand the design and it would work well if all traffic on all roads flowed consistently. But traffic there doesn't so it is a nightmare.

However I have to admit, I don't have a cheap solution that would appeal to all.

[Llessur2002]

It magnificently fails during any form of congestion. Especially peak hour.

I understand the design and it would work well if all traffic on all roads flowed consistently. But traffic there doesn't so it is a nightmare.

However I have to admit, I don't have a cheap solution that would appeal to all.

So the roundabout itself seems to be slowing traffic? In which case I would have thought it's a user problem - i.e. too many people not understanding what entry lane they need to be in to take their desired exit, people not giving way when required or people entering the roundabout when there's traffic blocking their exit? In heavy traffic it often takes only one or two people doing the wrong thing to slow down the entire traffic flow and cause things to grind to a halt.

Perhaps better signage or road markings are required?

If the traffic's flowing freely before and after the roundabout then I can't see why a relatively simple double roundabout should cause any significant bottleneck. This thing works perfectly well in the UK, probably with higher traffic volumes in peak time than ours:

[Waewick]

It magnificently fails during any form of congestion. Especially peak hour.

I understand the design and it would work well if all traffic on all roads flowed consistently. But traffic there doesn't so it is a nightmare.

However I have to admit, I don't have a cheap solution that would appeal to all.

So the roundabout itself seems to be slowing traffic? In which case I would have thought it's a user problem - i.e. too many people not understanding what entry lane they need to be in to take their desired exit, people not giving way when required or people entering the roundabout when there's traffic blocking their exit? In heavy traffic it often takes only one or two people doing the wrong thing to slow down the entire traffic flow and cause things to grind to a halt.

Perhaps better signage or road markings are required?

If the traffic's flowing freely before and after the roundabout then I can't see why a relatively simple double roundabout should cause any significant bottleneck. This thing works perfectly well in the UK, probably with higher traffic volumes in peak time than ours:

No its,well imo easily manoeuvred.

The problem is the traffic flow. The roundabout requires a steady flow of traffic from all directions to ensure everyone has an opportunity to pass through.

It just doesn't happen like that.

In the morning there is lots of cars coming West on Kensington as well as North and south along fullarton.

There are virtually no cars travelling south on dequettevelle terrace. Because the north part of Fullarton road is so close to Kensington there isn't sufficient time for people to enter the round about and there just isn't enough cars heading east on Kensington to create the space.

Pretty much the reverse happens in peak hour except there is no slip lane to turn left on dequettevelle terrace (obviously because there is a road).

Don't get me wrong there are crap drivers out there but not that many surely.

[Llessur2002]

I have seen roundabouts in Europe which have certain entry points signalised only during peak hours to create space for other users to enter the roundabout. Typically the signal will be red for maybe 15 seconds every minute or so, just enough to create a gap in traffic flow. Perhaps this could be a relatively cheap fix in this situation?

[Maximus]

Agree with this in principle but in practice I don't think it's always as clear cut. Whilst it would be nice to chuck £70m at the ring road and make the whole thing brilliant overnight, in reality projects happen separately in stages as and when funding allows. In reality the ring road's slowly being improved, whilst the CBD is gradually being made a less attractive option.

Absolutely the reality of each respective situation needs to be considered, and I certainly recognise things will rarely ever be as simple as 'firstly make Road B better for cars, then make Road A better for bikes and pedestrians'. There needs to be a holistic approach as to how the road network can be made to be the best/most efficient for all forms of transport. And, obviously, for different parts of the network, there will be differences in which mode of transport it is most appropriate to prioritise. In any case, probably best not to be chucking £££ at the ring route right now... $$$ look to be a better bet!

Y'all might be interested in a recent project here in Canberra, which turned a city street into a 'shareway'. Perhaps the closest comparison to Adelaide is to say this street is similar to Rundle Street -- it's largely lined by restaurants, shops and small business, and has a high level of foot traffic. Whilst I don't think the execution was particularly good in terms of construction, signage, etc - and 12 months on I still observe a high level of confusion/ignorance from both drivers and pedestrians - I like the idea and think it's absolutely appropriate for the particular circumstances of this street.

I have seen roundabouts in Europe which have certain entry points signalised only during peak hours to create space for other users to enter the roundabout. Typically the signal will be red for maybe 15 seconds every minute or so, just enough to create a gap in traffic flow. Perhaps this could be a relatively cheap fix in this situation?

Pretty sure the roundabout outside Scotch College at the intersection of Blythewood Road and Old Belair Road has this function, although I can't personally comment on whether or not it's effective.

[Waewick]

I have seen roundabouts in Europe which have certain entry points signalised only during peak hours to create space for other users to enter the roundabout. Typically the signal will be red for maybe 15 seconds every minute or so, just enough to create a gap in traffic flow. Perhaps this could be a relatively cheap fix in this situation?

I agree that it should be be that hard to fix, but I doubt anyone has the will to do it.

personally I would like to see the Fullarton Rd Extension diverted away from the roundabout somehow.

[ghs]

I notice that the council has improved the parking conditions on Pitt street.
Maybe some of the councils' employees read my rant on this
twebsite a couple of months ago and decided to make some changes lol.