[COM] Torrens Junction Underpass

[metro]

For Adelaide's first transit oriented development, the new Bowden station looks very basic..

Just to compare. This is what outer sprawlburbia gets with no houses built yet..

[Norman]

Don't forget that this station is designed to be built over when the Bowden Village gets to that stage, so it shouldn't have many (if any) structures above ground.

[Nathan]

Don't forget that this station is designed to be built over when the Bowden Village gets to that stage, so it shouldn't have many (if any) structures above ground.

There are no plans to build over the line. It's certainly not part of the development area.

[Norman]

Don't forget that this station is designed to be built over when the Bowden Village gets to that stage, so it shouldn't have many (if any) structures above ground.

There are no plans to build over the line. It's certainly not part of the development area.

Not currently, but the project specifically states that the station is designed to be built over, so that could be a part of a separate project when the state government decides to sell air rights to the station.

[claybro]

So they have moved Bowden station FURTHER from the Ent Cent and Hindmarsh stadium, to the further most corner from the Bowden TOD? Why could they not incorporate a new sunken platform adjacent to the original station building? I think this is a lost opportunity to utilise station place properly and keep the station closer to where people actually need to go.

Two reasons it was moved west: new interchangeability with Park Terrace and to maximise the distance between completed tunnel and the bridge over South Road.

Also, there's plenty more of the Bowden Village to be built, with some of the most dense stuff to come south of the realigned station.

Just a couple of things here, it has been moved further EAST not west. Is there even consideration for an interchange with Park Terrace. ie a drop and go zone, bus layover etc? Also regarding interchange with Park Terrace, how many buses travel via Park Terrace that it becomes a primary reason to move the station in that direction? Surely the station is better situated closer the where people need to be, closer to the centre of the TOD, closer to the local entertainment and sporting facilities and its new location is not really a community focal point when compared to Station Place.

[ChillyPhilly]

So they have moved Bowden station FURTHER from the Ent Cent and Hindmarsh stadium, to the further most corner from the Bowden TOD? Why could they not incorporate a new sunken platform adjacent to the original station building? I think this is a lost opportunity to utilise station place properly and keep the station closer to where people actually need to go.

Two reasons it was moved west: new interchangeability with Park Terrace and to maximise the distance between completed tunnel and the bridge over South Road.

Also, there's plenty more of the Bowden Village to be built, with some of the most dense stuff to come south of the realigned station.

Just a couple of things here, it has been moved further EAST not west. Is there even consideration for an interchange with Park Terrace. ie a drop and go zone, bus layover etc? Also regarding interchange with Park Terrace, how many buses travel via Park Terrace that it becomes a primary reason to move the station in that direction? Surely the station is better situated closer the where people need to be, closer to the centre of the TOD, closer to the local entertainment and sporting facilities and its new location is not really a community focal point when compared to Station Place.

Oops, you found my typo. East, not west. Fixed. I agree with what you are saying but I'm just recalling the logic that was mentioned some time ago.

[claybro]

Oops, you found my typo. East, not west. Fixed. I agree with what you are saying but I'm just recalling the logic that was mentioned some time ago.

Wasn't looking to catch anyone out here I just find that even when 10's of millions are being spent on the rail system, we never seem to get it quite right. Train stations should be a focal point of a local community, rather than just a commuter system to get people from A to B, and this moves an existing station away from activity rather than integrate it. Mawson Lakes is another example of a missed opportunity. New station, new town centre, just that they are hundreds of meters apart, form no connectivity or activation of the "high street" and don't encourage walkability.- Oaklands is heading the same way.

[Nathan]

It's closer to the retail/commercial core of the Bowden development, and smack bang in the centre of the zoning of the area with the highest building height limits. There will be a laneway connecting the pedestrian bridge and station through to Bowden Town Square / Plant 4 & 3, with ground level retail/hospitality. Other retail/hospitality will be concentrated along Second St and Gibson St, surrounding the square (with smaller amounts on Third St and the surrounding blocks).

I also think ChillyPhilly may be right in that relocating it gives them an extra block for the line to return to grade. Even relocated, it still doesn't return to grade until after East St, just in time for it to make it over Chief St.

[crawf]

Oops, you found my typo. East, not west. Fixed. I agree with what you are saying but I'm just recalling the logic that was mentioned some time ago.

Wasn't looking to catch anyone out here I just find that even when 10's of millions are being spent on the rail system, we never seem to get it quite right. Train stations should be a focal point of a local community, rather than just a commuter system to get people from A to B, and this moves an existing station away from activity rather than integrate it. Mawson Lakes is another example of a missed opportunity. New station, new town centre, just that they are hundreds of meters apart, form no connectivity or activation of the "high street" and don't encourage walkability.- Oaklands is heading the same way.

Mawson Lakes is restricted by the railyards which dissect the suburb into two separate areas. In saying that, there has been significant development over the last 5 years in close vicinity of Mawson Interchange including low rise apartments between the railyards and Salisbury Highway. It just needs better pedestrian access to this part of Mawson Lakes.

As land is now becoming scarce in Mawsons, I'm sure we will soon see a proposal to develop the interchange and carpark into a TOD precinct.

[ChillyPhilly]

Oops, you found my typo. East, not west. Fixed. I agree with what you are saying but I'm just recalling the logic that was mentioned some time ago.

Wasn't looking to catch anyone out here I just find that even when 10's of millions are being spent on the rail system, we never seem to get it quite right. Train stations should be a focal point of a local community, rather than just a commuter system to get people from A to B, and this moves an existing station away from activity rather than integrate it. Mawson Lakes is another example of a missed opportunity. New station, new town centre, just that they are hundreds of meters apart, form no connectivity or activation of the "high street" and don't encourage walkability.- Oaklands is heading the same way.

Mawson Lakes is restricted by the railyards which dissect the suburb into two separate areas. In saying that, there has been significant development over the last 5 years in close vicinity of Mawson Interchange including low rise apartments between the railyards and Salisbury Highway. It just needs better pedestrian access to this part of Mawson Lakes.

As land is now becoming scarce in Mawsons, I'm sure we will soon see a proposal to develop the interchange and carpark into a TOD precinct.

Correct - the carpark adjacent to the station is in fact land reserved for Adelaide's most dense residential development ever. It hasn't happened because no developer has been willing to build something at such a density.

[claybro]

Correct - the carpark adjacent to the station is in fact land reserved for Adelaide's most dense residential development ever. It hasn't happened because no developer has been willing to build something at such a density.

But TOD's are not just about putting as much high density housing as possible immediately next to a train station. They are about creating a liveable community with shared public space adjacent to transport hubs and revitalising the existing areas. Crowding the train station at Mawson and Bowden with highrise without adequately linking in to existing shopping and high streets just decreases the vibrancy of the existing areas. It would have been so easy to link Bowden with what already exists the other side of Port Road and fitting in with the historic hub during the Torrens Junction project. Same goes for Mawson. Highrise/high density in the immediate vicinity of the station will "cut it off" from the main shopping precinct. The most successful train station precincts are where the station is adjacent shops and services, not tucked in amongst housing.

[Norman]

The station will be right next to the shopping precinct of Plant 4. I am not sure what else is planned for the area, but there could be more retail premises between Plant 4 and the station. It is much better planned than Mawson Lakes.

[bits]

Mawson Lakes was not built around a train station. The elder Smith Rd bridge didn't get built until well after Mawson lakes shopping centre was built.

Mawson Lakes train station is just convenient that Mawson Lakes eventually bumped in to the train line.

The suburb initially was heading southwest towards Montague, not north towards the train line.
When that ran out of room, it moved to North of Salisbury highway.
Mawson lakes started its life trying to be an upper class suburb, with local employment in the adjacent technology Park with high-end well paid jobs etc. Public transport like a train was below the pay grade of the people it was aimed at.

I assume the train line was seen as a huge negative and was being hidden behind dirt mounds.

[bits]

Regarding Bowden, again I think most residents see the train line as a negative.
A train station is seen as noisy and full of anti-social people. Most do not want to live ontop of it, they want to be able to say it's close enough without being too close.

[Llessur2002]

Regarding Bowden, again I think most residents see the train line as a negative.

I'd be surprised if most of the people who have actively chosen to live in a TOD would see a train line or station as a negative...