News & Discussion: Trams

[PeFe]

Like I said...its amazing how quickly people remember to tap off after 1 default fare....even Adelaide Now readers would quickly learn the correct behaviour.......

[citywatcher]

My info is your credit disappears at midnight

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[rubberman]

Data intensive schemes are always expensive. For the cost of MYKI, they could have bought 200 new trams, and had Adelaide in as consultants to install the identical system to ours...with money left over.

200 new trams and a simpler system, plus change, vs some nebulous "benefit" from a data dump. No brainer.

That's not to say that in the future, such information might be worth capturing. But not at the expense of 200 trams thanks.

[fishinajar]

There should be stops for both extensions just near the corner of North Terrace and King William Street to enable easier connection with the Glenelg tram(assuming the present route remains unchanged?) and also King William Road/King William Street buses..

Possibly. However, the present Entercentre to City route doesn't need more trams, neither could they take trams from the City West to Vic Sq section either. Which means possibly using some sort of shuttle from West Terrace to East Terrace and/or the Festival Centre. Three extra trams could do that.

In that case, people could transfer at the Adelaide Railway Station, or West Terrace.

Pure speculation though. Your guess is as good as mine.

The Riverside stop placement concerns me also. What will the eventual routes be? I have always imagined it would be a Glenelg to Festival Plaza line, and then a AEC to oRAH line. Anything else will be more complex, especially as we add more lines in the future, and require greater numbers of trams. The walk from the Railway Station to the proposed Riverbank stop seems unnecessarily long.

[PeFe]

My info is your credit disappears at midnight

Which system, in which city, are you talking about?

Doesn't happen in Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane, Perth, Canberra, London, Washington, Dubai..................

[Patrick_27]

Regarding ticketing/paying fares. If and when the city loop happens, I'd advocate for PT users paying full fare between South Terrace and the Entertainment Centre and have the City loop operating as a free service. Easier to police the current Entertainment Centre to Glenelg line when people don't tap on after South Terrace.

[SBD]

Regarding ticketing/paying fares. If and when the city loop happens, I'd advocate for PT users paying full fare between South Terrace and the Entertainment Centre and have the City loop operating as a free service. Easier to police the current Entertainment Centre to Glenelg line when people don't tap on after South Terrace.

That would mean that some of the trams from West Terrace to the railway station are free, and some aren't, depending on where it goes after you get off (and where it came from before you got on).

Again - tap-on/tap-off would mean that if you tap off outside of the city square, you are assumed to have started at the far end of the vehicle's journey.

[Patrick_27]

Regarding ticketing/paying fares. If and when the city loop happens, I'd advocate for PT users paying full fare between South Terrace and the Entertainment Centre and have the City loop operating as a free service. Easier to police the current Entertainment Centre to Glenelg line when people don't tap on after South Terrace.

That would mean that some of the trams from West Terrace to the railway station are free, and some aren't, depending on where it goes after you get off (and where it came from before you got on).

Again - tap-on/tap-off would mean that if you tap off outside of the city square, you are assumed to have started at the far end of the vehicle's journey.

How do you figure? What I am suggesting it that the terrace to terrace system be scrapped in favour of a more frequent city loop. Besides, people can read the sign on the tram and dictate whether it's free or not. Having used the tap on, tap off system in Melbourne when living there, it's not as efficient as people make it out to be. Have you ever been squashed into a tram during peak hour? It works on the train lines because the tap devices are off the train itself but on the tram it's the last thing you can find when trying to exit onto the platform...

[PeFe]

I think a better future model for "free city trams" is to make the boundary at the "terraces". As soon as you leave the "terraces" you have to pay. Simple, clean, even Adelaide Now readers can understand it.

Rubberman wrote

Data intensive schemes are always expensive. For the cost of MYKI, they could have bought 200 new trams, and had Adelaide in as consultants to install the identical system to ours...with money left over.

Perth bought an off-the-shelf smart ticket system for about $40 million, similar to the cost of Metrocard, but they employ a tap-on-tap-off system for their fares, enabling usage detail capture.
Melbourne's public transport system dwarfs Adelaide/Perth etc but the cost of Myki is a perpetual embarassment, probably best forgotten............

[SBD]

Data intensive schemes are always expensive. For the cost of MYKI, they could have bought 200 new trams, and had Adelaide in as consultants to install the identical system to ours...with money left over.

200 new trams and a simpler system, plus change, vs some nebulous "benefit" from a data dump. No brainer.

That's not to say that in the future, such information might be worth capturing. But not at the expense of 200 trams thanks.

I'm not familiar enough with either system to know how they work, how much data is stored on the card vs on the server, nor how often the vehicles need to contact the server and how they operate between updates. Since I can check my balance online from home, there has been some communication to a central server after my trip. Maybe they only collect number of trips, not start locations now.

The key issues in SA would be re-educating users, who are used to tapping once, and we have a very simple, almost-flat fare structure.

Collecting data of where the public transport users do travel might help to optimise some routes, but still doesn't collect data about the potential passengers who don't use it at all due to the poor connections and routes available

[SBD]

Regarding ticketing/paying fares. If and when the city loop happens, I'd advocate for PT users paying full fare between South Terrace and the Entertainment Centre and have the City loop operating as a free service. Easier to police the current Entertainment Centre to Glenelg line when people don't tap on after South Terrace.

That would mean that some of the trams from West Terrace to the railway station are free, and some aren't, depending on where it goes after you get off (and where it came from before you got on).

Again - tap-on/tap-off would mean that if you tap off outside of the city square, you are assumed to have started at the far end of the vehicle's journey.

How do you figure? What I am suggesting it that the terrace to terrace system be scrapped in favour of a more frequent city loop. Besides, people can read the sign on the tram and dictate whether it's free or not. Having used the tap on, tap off system in Melbourne when living there, it's not as efficient as people make it out to be. Have you ever been squashed into a tram during peak hour? It works on the train lines because the tap devices are off the train itself but on the tram it's the last thing you can find when trying to exit onto the platform...

I figured that both the (free) city loop and the (paid) Entertainment centre to Glenelg trams would cover that section of North Terrace.

Yes, people could read signs, but I'd prefer the fare to be set based on the journey, rather than on which vehicle someone uses for that journey.

[rubberman]

Data intensive schemes are always expensive. For the cost of MYKI, they could have bought 200 new trams, and had Adelaide in as consultants to install the identical system to ours...with money left over.

200 new trams and a simpler system, plus change, vs some nebulous "benefit" from a data dump. No brainer.

That's not to say that in the future, such information might be worth capturing. But not at the expense of 200 trams thanks.

I'm not familiar enough with either system to know how they work, how much data is stored on the card vs on the server, nor how often the vehicles need to contact the server and how they operate between updates. Since I can check my balance online from home, there has been some communication to a central server after my trip. Maybe they only collect number of trips, not start locations now.

The key issues in SA would be re-educating users, who are used to tapping once, and we have a very simple, almost-flat fare structure.

Collecting data of where the public transport users do travel might help to optimise some routes, but still doesn't collect data about the potential passengers who don't use it at all due to the poor connections and routes available

I suggest the key issue in SA is this: We can have a MYKI system with all that lovely data, or we can keep the existing system, and with the money we save we can fund a lot of the entire Adelink project. Such IT systems are so expensive, you can actually buy 50 trams and about 25km of double track for the same price. I'd rather have the trams.

[timtam20292]

I agree, the Adelink network comes first.

[Torrens_5022]

When the tram lines are extended the free area should extend to North Adelaide,, (turn back facilities would most likely be built at the last stop on O'Connell so you can have more frequent city services on nights / weekends etc). Entertainment Centre would only remain free if the line is not extended, Brighton Road to Moseley Square is free and still would be, no one really cares about that one anyway.
So basically within the Parklands is free plus Jetty Road and Entertainment Centre - if not extended.
Anyone have any idea if route numbers are going to be used?
Route 1 would be Glenelg to City (Hindmarsh), will the numbers be through routed eg 13 Blair Athol to Mitcham Station or just to the city eg 13 Blair Athol to City and Changes to 9 City to Mitcham Station.
Going by Melbourne, everyone knows the 86, no one calls it the Bundoora tram.

[timtam20292]

Any workers spotted tonight?!