[COM] Victoria Square Upgrade - $24m

[bmw boy]

my guess would be the tram loop as its already kind of a govt idea in the background. Hopfully its not gonna take another 5 years just for that!

What ever does happen with Vic Sq i hope they form an overall grand plan for the future and keep all future options in thier mind no matter if they are ideas for 20 years time.

So a possible future tram loop, train 'subway' and a east/west road tunnel could be constructed without causing major problems for other infrastructure due to a lack of planning and vision with the implementation of such projects. Eg East/west tunnel making it hard for a subway to be built or something like that...

[Tyler_Durden]

Oh dear, let me reiterate that cities of over a million are large cities. Adelaide has over 1 million people. And oh, how crazy to suggest a underground city loop. Only every 2nd city in the world has one, going through its CBD.

I guess all these cities must be crazy, and I guess Adl with its dead end station, must be a perfect model for a rail system. No wonder why so many people use it, NOT! Let me give you an example of Auckland which had a system where its trains ended on the city fringe. They had a crazy idea to build a tunnel to the 'Britomart Centre' in the CBD and guess what - patronage has over doubled on Auckland trains, yes DOUBLED! May i ask what incentive there is to take a train to the city when your destination is either Hindmarsh Sq, Rundle St east, Hutt St, Gouger St. Yes thats right, theres no incentive caus the train station is no where near it so what does everyone do - drive their bloody cars. Now thats crazy!

Don't get me wrong, I'm an advocate for public transport, but I am also aware that there are other forms of public transport to an underground subway system which would be one of, if not the most expensive. Like trams for instance. The extension of the tram network will already provide free transport access to much of the CBD. It won't take a lot more to extend that to some other areas of the CBD.

[Cruise]

They are energy efficiency disasters, make poor use of their blocks, will leak in high wind driven rain and will be horrendously expensive to maintain in 10 to 20 years as their finishes reach the end of their service life.

well i have to agree there.
Wasnt there some appaling stat about the amount of energy used by the homes in Mawson Lakes?

[crawf]

I think we have all seen this coming.....

Vic Square: People's Plaza
Article from: The Advertiser

CRAIG BILDSTIEN, CITY EDITOR

August 13, 2007 02:15am

ROAD closures and tunnels for Victoria Square could be part of a move to turn the city precinct into a "people's plaza".

(AdelaideNow would like to hear your ideas for Victoria Square. Scroll down to the comment box below.)

The State Government and Adelaide City Council will offer two $10,000 cash prizes. Designs have been produced, canvassing closing roads, extending the parkland area and introducing tunnels to the city's heart.

Adelaide figures and politicians say Victoria Square needs to be brought back to life, in line with the major development surrounding it.

Lord Mayor Michael Harbison said yesterday he wanted a "people's plaza" for the 110,000 workers, 100,000 visitors and 60,000 students using the city daily.

Transport and Infrastructure Minister Patrick Conlon challenged South Australians to "argue their brains out" to come up with both a minimalist and an inspirational concept for the square, branded an "inhospitable wasteland" by the Institute of Architects.

They have agreed to jointly fund the competition after the relocation of the Glenelg to city tramline to the western side of the square, closer to the Hilton Hotel.

The competition will offer a $10,000 prize for an ambitious, all-encompassing design for Victoria Square and a $10,000 prize for a redesign of the now-defunct central tram stop.

While he was elected on a platform of opposing a proposed $18 million redevelopment of Victoria Square in 2003, Mr Harbison says the tram extension has opened up a new opportunity to "finally conquer the place for the people".

"My personal hope is that we might take an approach like Cathedral Square in our sister city Christchurch, New Zealand, where the tram meanders through the people's plaza," he said.

Asked if he still opposed the closure of Wakefield/Grote St to east-west traffic through the square, Mr Harbison replied: "I think that moving the tram track has opened up a new canvas for all of us.

"Not since Sir James Irwin created the diamond back in the '60s for John Darley's fountain have we had an opportunity like this."

Mr Conlon said he hoped the competition would "stir up a bit of imagination" among South Australians about what the square should look like and what it should be used for.

While details are yet to be finalised, the Capital City Committee is expected to judge concepts for a cost-free, minimalist approach and a "no limits" inspirational theme.

Asked if he had any suggestions, Mr Conlon said he thought a regular market, similar to Darwin's popular Mindil Beach market, could be a good low-cost solution.

"It might be a good idea to build upon what I think is really great about Adelaide - the Central Market - perhaps with a seafood and wine festival where the first crayfish of the season arrives by tram," he said.

While Mr Conlon refused to make any financial commitment to redeveloping Victoria Square beyond the initial prizemoney, he said it was important to "get people thinking and have a bit of fun".

Asked about Adelaide City Council's decision in 2003 to shelve plans for the square in favour of maintaining Wakefield/Grote St through traffic, Mr Conlon said "closing the road is only one option".

"There are now far more options. We now have double the space in the south to use, and blocking through traffic is not necessary to make good use of the square now," he said.

Mr Harbison said that while 20,000 vehicles passing through Victoria Square daily had been a problem in the past, the shifting of the tram track presented the possibility to "flip the western roadway to the east".

Mr Harbison said council recognised any plan could be expensive and welcomed the State Government's interest.

Royal Australian Institute of Architects state manager, Chris Bowe, said Victoria Square was an "inhospitable wasteland" despite numerous efforts to do something about it over the past 25 years.

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Seven ways to redesign square
Article from: The Advertiser

MATT WILLIAMS

August 13, 2007 02:15am

SEVEN design options for Victoria Square, drawn up by independent consultants, have been informally presented to Adelaide City Council.

A council consultant began examining options for the square last year and it received concept plans early last month.

A council spokeswoman said the options were "only concepts at a very early stage to get discussion happening". "There has been no resolution by council at this point," she said.

"We will use the plans to work collaboratively with the State Government in their future plans for Victoria Square and for the new tram line."

The seven options drawn up by the consultants are:

* TWO-WAY traffic on the west side, providing two large plazas, and consolidating movement into one corridor.

* TWO-WAY traffic on the east side, linking to the market and the south-west city, two large plazas, maintaining the tram corridor, and consolidating the traffic corridor.

* TWO-WAY tunnel to the east, reducing the traffic footprint, creating larger event spaces, direct access to the square, and large half spaces.

* CENTRAL tunnel running from north-to-south, creating a large central space, four large quadrants, and direct access to the square.

* CENTRE road providing direct access to square, strong symmetry, losing central space, and running trams through the western plazas.

* CENTRE road providing direct access to the square, trams running through the square, would give four large open spaces, a single corridor, strong symmetry, but central space would be lost.

* ALL traffic underground, providing direct access to the square, a large area for events and community use, a central symbolic space, and would remove all traffic through the square.

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Time Lord Mayor showed vision
Article from: The Advertiser

CRAIG BILDSTIEN

August 13, 2007 02:15am

AN $18 million "master plan" for Victoria Square was adopted by the Adelaide City Council in 2003.

That included closing Wakefield/Grote St to through traffic and examining the cost of an underground tunnel.

Despite the enormous amount of work, research and consultation for three years beforehand, the project was dumped by Michael Harbison as soon as he became Lord Mayor.

Mr Harbison ran a "do nothing" in Victoria Square election campaign - and it worked.

His predecessor, Alfred Huang, who supported the master plan, was tipped out of Town Hall.

As Mr Harbison approaches his next election, due on October 17, he is singing from a different hymn sheet on Victoria Square.

The re-siting of the tram track, he argues, presents an opportunity to "finally conquer the place for the people".

Hopefully, with $20,000 cash as a strong incentive, the competition to solicit ideas from the public will throw up some concepts to motivate Mr Harbison to extend his vision beyond mowing the lawns, scraping chewing gum off the footpaths and weeding the garden beds!

[Redback20]

The N-S traffic isn't so much a problem for me as it doesnt cut the square in half like wakefield-grote. In fact severs would be a better word. I'd love to see an east-west tunnel, failing that reroute E bound traffic to the north & vice versa... make Vic Square whole again.

Its such a large area it could support european style piazza/eating areas as well as a large Fed Sq type gathering place/big screen & maybe a markets area as well.

Such activity would naturally draw similar businesses plus residential developments to the periphery of VS, helping to enclose it (particularly the southern half).

[talrok]

So where do we send our submissions for fixing this eye soar!!!

[Howie]

Yes, good question, i couldn't find anything on the acc site. And when is the deadline?

[Cruise]

* ALL traffic underground, providing direct access to the square, a large area for events and community use, a central symbolic space, and would remove all traffic through the square.

[/quote]
I like this idea.

But it will all just be a big talk fest with little to no outcome.

[duke]

I would build an underground shopping center starting from the Central Market with access from Vic Square. Rather than people having to cross roads they would be able to go down some stairs into a modern shopping center which extends back and up into the existing market. Im thinking of the underground centers like in Sydney. They make it easy to cross busy roads and provide access to the subway system.
I would also then have a underground link connecting from the new bus terminal to the central market.

If the council wont let us build up, I think we need to look towards building underground.
We seem to do both very poorly in this city..

[Howie]

If you want to read the article in it's entirety, go here.

http://www.sensational-adelaide.com/ima ... 070813.pdf

[Ho Really]

Asked about Adelaide City Council's decision in 2003 to shelve plans for the square in favour of maintaining Wakefield/Grote St through traffic, Mr Conlon said "closing the road is only one option".

Closing it is not an option, an east-west tunnel is. Wakefield/Grote Streets are still the best way to get to and from the Airport for many in the eastern suburbs. If we shut down a main thoroughfare such as this where are we going to send that traffic?

Cheers

[crawf]

Whats going to happen to the fountain?

[duke]

I like the fountain. It could be cleaned up a bit though.

People in all of the designs seem to be forgetting about all the busses that stop along Vic Square.

I think the one with a major intersection under Vic square is the best though followed by the one with all the roads around the square, option D. The all roads underground wouldn't accommodate buses or any transport to offices. So probably all roads around in a square is the best option. Not that great for traffic flow though I guess. I see this one as being more likely than tunnels though.

[stelaras]

Im for the all transport underground option here.

That would mean a kick ass square that can be turned into our version of Fed Square. It would make for a great meeting location



but at the end of the day The mayor is just jerking our chains, nothing will ever come of it. Or if it does it would be some half baked reconstruction on the smallest possible budget and with the least level of ammenities!

For a city that was once a representation of freedom, we have been put to shame by the "larger states" that allow development to occur smoothly and easily...In terms of development Adelaide is a narrow minded, tied up, shackled and beaten up to point that it doesn't know what the right thing to do is...

This city HAS the potential, this city CAN be great, This city CAN be picturesque, but continually reading the "HAS, CAN and COULD Be's" is a little tiring when it never actually translates to something positive being done, and when it does it is an .....almost, maybe, nearly good enough attempt!

[duke]

I was just looking at the option where all the roads go around in a square. I was thinking what if the roads were through of a huge roundabout. No traffic lights. Just one huge roundabout.

I saw this doco a few years ago about how this town had so many signs all over the place that they believed that they were causing the accidents. Distracting drivers and making everything slow.
They ripped out the traffic lights and all the signs, put in roundabouts. Traffic started to flow better than ever before. At the time of the doco there had been no accidents either.
I think one problem is our mentality here where everyone thinks, "its only a bus, i can make it in front". Would be interesting to see if it would work here though.