News & Discussion: Trams

[Nathan]

One thought: had they decided to do the grand junction, would the apparently necessary retaining wall have made an impact on the penciled in route of the underground rail loop under North Tce?

[ChillyPhilly]

Re: grand union junctions, there's only one left in Australia. It's the Balaclava Junction in Caulfield North, Melbourne at the intersection of Hawthorn and Balaclava Roads.

Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balaclava_Junction

I took a screenshot on Google Earth for those interested, bottom.

As for the missed opportunity here, I can see both sides of the story. But in the future, if there is no junction for the forseeable decade or so, would we regret our decision? Or, are grand junctions becoming a thing of the past? Are we still getting something like the immediate below?

[[Shuz]]

I certainly don't see the need for any turns from west to north, or north to west but I don't see any reason why they couldn't add in turns from east to north and south to east?

Reason being, there's certainly a demand for services from Glenelg to the East End and once the East End extension goes out to Norwood a demand for services going from Norwood to Festival Theatre for Adelaide Oval related events.

I would hazard to guess that Norwood is the next step in the tram network expansion; or certainly at least the election promise of one. Norwood (Dunstan) is Steven Marshall's electorate - with a growing "yuppie" population and his margin sitting on only 4% - it's an outsiders possibility the seat could swing in favour of Labor with a promise of a tram extension that way.

[Llessur2002]

Another bit of sensationalist rubbish from InFaily.

[Waewick]

Another bit of sensationalist rubbish from InFaily.

why is that?

I'm not an expert in trams and I look at it and wonder why? I mean sure it would have blown out the costs by $20 which is a reasonable justification for not doing it, but is that the right decision for the long term (will we be paying $40M in 10 years time to do it) and we are doing it this way so Labor simply have something to sell at the next election?

I think it is legitimate question to be raised. As I said I understand the initial response being a cost issue but I have no problem in making sure that is a good reason (furthermore could the $100m been used for something better like electrifying the Gawler line)

transparency is always a good thing.

[Waewick]

I certainly don't see the need for any turns from west to north, or north to west but I don't see any reason why they couldn't add in turns from east to north and south to east?

Reason being, there's certainly a demand for services from Glenelg to the East End and once the East End extension goes out to Norwood a demand for services going from Norwood to Festival Theatre for Adelaide Oval related events.

I would hazard to guess that Norwood is the next step in the tram network expansion; or certainly at least the election promise of one. Norwood (Dunstan) is Steven Marshall's electorate - with a growing "yuppie" population and his margin sitting on only 4% - it's an outsiders possibility the seat could swing in favour of Labor with a promise of a tram extension that way.

I'm a bit confused, the article indicates that you can catch a tram from the Adelaide Station for an east bound train, I assume the tram goes to the festival centre then through to the old RAH?

Tram users coming from the south will have to alight on King William Street, walk to a Gawler Place stop and wait for a tram travelling along North Terrace to travel to the city’s East End. Alternatively, commuters could alight at the tram stop in front of the Adelaide Railway Station to wait for an east-bound tram.

but you are suggesting otherwise? Not having a crack here just genuinely curious as to peoples thoughts.

[rubberman]

Another bit of sensationalist rubbish from InFaily.

why is that?

I'm not an expert in trams and I look at it and wonder why? I mean sure it would have blown out the costs by $20 which is a reasonable justification for not doing it, but is that the right decision for the long term (will we be paying $40M in 10 years time to do it) and we are doing it this way so Labor simply have something to sell at the next election?

I think it is legitimate question to be raised. As I said I understand the initial response being a cost issue but I have no problem in making sure that is a good reason (furthermore could the $100m been used for something better like electrifying the Gawler line)

transparency is always a good thing.

It's rubbish because there's no way the cost of another 4 curves could amount to $20m. That's just absurd.

It's rubbish because it says modern trams can't use a grand union in a location where trams used them for almost 50 years every. single. day. (Note, Citadis are NOT modern trams).

It's rubbish because even though it says modern trams can't use a grand union there without building retaining walls, there are curves in the existing proposal in three of the four quadrants. If trams cant get round them, why are they being put in?

There are criticisms to be made, certainly. However, by making reports that are patently absurd, it's likely that real criticisms will be dismissed. Remember the boy who cried "wolf".

For what it's worth. I think DPTI is learning. They've abandoned nutty centre islands, and are doing their construction smarter and cheaper. They haven't worked out why they shouldn't be buying Citadis yet, or that they can run buses and trams in the same corridor yet. However they will get there, maybe pushed by the government or the RAA, and compared to the awful scandal that is the tram extension in George St Sydney, our DPTI shine like angels.

[Llessur2002]

Another bit of sensationalist rubbish from InFaily.

why is that?

Because, as is becoming seemingly more common with InDaily lately, I don't have a problem with the overall topic or even questioning of the article - it's the usual Advertiser-esque negative slant and sensationalism attached to it that bugs me.

For example:

Tram users coming from the south will have to alight on King William Street, walk to a Gawler Place stop and wait for a tram travelling along North Terrace to travel to the city’s East End.

Who in their right mind would choose to get off at KWS and walk to Gawler Place to catch a tram east when they could stay on until the Railway Station stop and change there? They have deliberately invented a more convoluted than necessary changing arrangement in order to make it sound like it's going to be really difficult to change trams than it will be in reality. That's sensationalism pure and simple.

Why include the rather unnecessary comments from Jennifer Bonham about her not really wanting cars in the CBD other than just to rile up the usual sad band of commentators?

The article also has a generally negative slant towards what can be argued as both a $20M cost-saving exercise and a measure to reduce impact to traffic flow at the junction - only a few weeks ago InDaily ran a similarly negative article slamming the Government/DPTI for spending half of the amount saved in this instance for allowing round-the-clock construction and an extra 100m extension along KWS calling it a "cost blowout" (which interestingly was a direct quote from the Opposition Transport Spokesperson).

A couple of weeks back they ran an article shouting about 'declining CBD visitor numbers' which, at best, presented statistics showing a change in the overall makeup of CBD visitors.

After what appeared to be a promising start of 'independent journalism' and a refreshingly objective viewpoint on issues it now seems they are sliding further and further towards an Advertiser-style business model of lazy journalism and trashing anything resembling progress in Adelaide.

[Vee]

Agree with your sentiments.
When this plan came out, my immediate thought was to change stops at the Railway Station tram stop, if needed. Minimal walking to change direction.

[[Shuz]]

Where are the three extra Citadis trams going to be stabled? I was of the impression that the Glengowrie depot is already at capacity. Will they just station them at the end of the lines with security guards on watch?

[Llessur2002]

Latest positive update from InDail...sorry...the Advertiser:

Adelaide tram extension works stage 3: Get set for more traffic disruption



ADELAIDE commuters are in for another dose of traffic pain when stage three of the tram extension project kicks off on October 22.

Stage three will involve the installation of tram tracks along King William Road between North Terrace and the Adelaide Festival Plaza Precinct.

During these works, the following restrictions will be in place:

* The u-turn facility near Festival Plaza will be permanently removed.
* The right turn into Festival Drive will be temporarily removed during construction.
* Traffic along King William Road will be restricted to two lanes in each direction between North Terrace and the Adelaide Festival Plaza for the duration of Stage 3 works.
* Access along King William Road footpaths will be maintained.
* The pedestrian crossing at the Festival Centre will be temporarily removed for the duration of the works.
* The intersection of North Terrace and King William Street/Road will not be affected.

Tram and bus services will operate as normal.

The project will result in a one-kilometre extension of the tram line along North Tce, from King William St to East Terrace, and a 350 metre extension north along King William Road to the Festival Plaza Precinct.

But the project has been controversial.

The new stage comes hot on the heels of the disruption caused by stage two of the work. The around-the-clock construction of the North Tce tram extension has severely restricted traffic since it started on October 1.

Two lanes of traffic in each direction along North Tce — between King William St and East Tce have been closed during the work — until October 16.

But in the days immediately after the works start, there was chaos on the roads.

Vehicles flooded intersections, blocking oncoming traffic when lights turned red, and some disobeyed traffic controllers as main roads as far as Kent Town and North Adelaide became carparks during peak hour.

Several city-bound bus passengers, some of whom said they had 45 minutes added to their morning commute, yesterday resorted to alighting at stops on the city fringe and walking into the CBD.

Lengthy delays were also experienced during the afternoon peak.

Motorists were urged to avoid the area and extra traffic controllers were put on duty to monitor CDB flows on a minute-by-minute basis.

Traders were also upset by the works, fearing calls to avoid the area would impact on their businesses.

The Transport Department said stage 3 works would have minimal impact on the Festival Theatre as it is closed for redevelopment and will reopen in December 2017.

Stage 4 works are scheduled to commence early next year.

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/sout ... a2585ea535

[Norman]

As at 7:30pm

KWS to Gawler Place
Trench dug, track in place for a lot of it.



Gawler Place to Pulteney Street
Trench dug, track from Gawler Place to Tiffany's







Pulteney Street to Frome Street
Trench dug, no track



Frome Street Intersection
Track in, concrete in





Frome Street to ORAH
Trench dug, track in to crossover

[ml69]

Great photos Norman. Wow they are really motoring along with these 24 hr shifts!

As usual there are all the usual complaints in the AdelaideNow comments, but I think that in the fullness of time we will understand that it was definitely worth the extra cost to run additional shifts to substantially speed up this construction work and minimise disruption to businesses and traffic. Great progress so far!

Also, I'd love to see an announcement to complete the city tram loop in the 2018 election, as the next tram priority, prior to extending to Norwood, Prospect or wherever. Firstly, it would be a reasonably short 4-4.5km extension to complete the loop. Secondly, I think it would be a huge game-changer in the CBD to massively boost residential supply and demand in the city.

[SRW]

As much as I want a city loop, I think I'm persuaded by the arguments others have made about the priority of extensions to the suburbs. Those suburban extensions will bring more people into the tram system, embed it with our public transport culture and make an eventual city loop far more useful.

[Nathan]

As much as I want a city loop, I think I'm persuaded by the arguments others have made about the priority of extensions to the suburbs. Those suburban extensions will bring more people into the tram system, embed it with our public transport culture and make an eventual city loop far more useful.

I get the feeling the city loop will be done by building the Norwood and airport lines first, and then filling in the remaining gaps.