Beer Garden

[rev]

It just makes me so sad that people arguing we need changes to law to "protect religious freedom" apparently like the status quo and think it is fine for society to ignore those who have religious objections to interfaith marriages, interracial marriages, or divorced people getting married. Society won't be truly free until any service provider has you fill out a checklist of what you are buying, what it is for, and who will be consuming/using it to ensure you meet their religious standards as a customer.

Name one major religion that refuses interacial marriages.

Greek orthodox.

Excerpt from this book:

ORTHODOX VIEW OF INTERRACIAL MARRIAGE

Bishop Iakovos, Prof. of Orthodox Theology, Holy Cross Greek Orthodox School of Theology. 1987.

"No matter what Hollywood say, I can't believe God smiles on such (interracial) marriages."

https://www.amazon.com/Orthodox-Church- ... 0937032565

A friend, Greek Orthodox, married an Irish girl, in a Greek church.
I have a cousin in Greece, who married an Albanian girl, in a Greek church. I have another cousin who married a Vietnamese girl in a Greek church.
Plenty of Italians and Greeks who have gotten married in each others churches as well.
Plenty of Greeks, Serbs, Russians, Ukrainians, Italians, Polish etc, who have also gotten married in each others churches as well.

Some bishops personal opinion, and that's what it is, is irrelevant in reality and practice.
Try again Ben.

Like I said earlier in the thread, this isn't truly about equality. It's about attacking the norm, attacking our judeo-christian foundations of western countries predominantly. It's only taken a short while for the disdain some of you have for Christianity, and probably religion in general, to shine through.

[Ben]

But don't we just google things that fit our agenda and post links to them as if they are gospel? I must have got the process wrong, sorry I was just following the precedent set by yourself.

[rev]

But don't we just google things that fit our agenda and post links to them as if they are gospel? I must have got the process wrong, sorry I was just following the precedent set by yourself.

Again, nice try, but try again Ben.

The examples of things I've posted, that did fit what I was saying, were examples of things the STATE is doing(in various locations).
The "safe schools" stuff in Canada with regards to parents, was factual in that it was now LAW in Canada, or at least in that state.
The content of the safe schools program in Australia, that was highlighed in parliament by George Christensen, was factual, and I believe most of that disgusting content that should never be taught to children, has been removed.
One of the people behind safe schools in Australia, from La Trobe, also advocating for adult-child sexual relations to be taught to children, was factual. Some of you took that as me implying all gays are pedos, which was not the case. But such is your hysteria and emotional stake in this.

I can go on Ben. But I think you get the point.

What you posted, was one mans opinion. He even says it is his opinion when he says "I". He says HE cant believe God would approve(or smile in his words) of interracial marriages. That is not representative of the whole church, of the whole eastern orthodox faith. I gave you examples which prove that and dismiss that suggestion.

None of you have provided any proof to invalidate the facts I posted earlier in the thread. Most of you just attacked me and accused me of various things. Most of you even missed, and probably still aren't aware, that fundamentally I'm not opposed to gays getting married, and that I don't particularly care what two consenting adults do regardless of their genders, and that my main concern was how legalizing it would impact others such as religious institutions, and I gave you examples of how ssm legalization in other countries has impacted religious institutions. My only concern, is that this be done in a way which does not impact others. You can argue till your tongue stops flapping that it wont impact others, so can Mono, but I've given you examples of how it has already impacted. You can then accuse me of various things, like Matt did. But the facts still remain.

You guys talk about equality, but don't seem to have much concern for the impact this will likely have on others, if we follow the same flawed road other countries like Canada have.

[[Shuz]]

Seriously Rev, shutup.

The amount of time, energy and effort you've given to this debate could have been better expended on more positive matters. Your hatred and vitrol certainly knows no boundaries.

[bits]

You guys talk about equality, but don't seem to have much concern for the impact this will likely have on others, if we follow the same flawed road other countries like Canada have.

The proposed change is for the national law regarding who can Marry under the Marriage Act.
It has nothing to do with safe schools or someone wanting to teach adult-child relationships.

You appear to want to confuse what a change to Marriage Act will do vs other issues that may appear similar in nature.

Argue your objection to safeschools or other all you like but it has zero to do with the same sex marriage vote/laws.

The change to the Marriage Act as proposed in the survey is simply to allow consenting adults to Marry.

Churches have and will continue to not Marry those that the Church does not wish to.
Nothing changes for religions other than there is more legal marriages they can object to.

[rev]

You guys talk about equality, but don't seem to have much concern for the impact this will likely have on others, if we follow the same flawed road other countries like Canada have.

The proposed change is for the national law regarding who can Marry under the Marriage Act.
It has nothing to do with safe schools or someone wanting to teach adult-child relationships.

You appear to want to confuse what a change to Marriage Act will do vs other issues that may appear similar in nature.

Argue your objection to safeschools or other all you like but it has zero to do with the same sex marriage vote/laws.

The change to the Marriage Act as proposed in the survey is simply to allow consenting adults to Marry.

Churches have and will continue to not Marry those that the Church does not wish to.
Nothing changes for religions other than there is more legal marriages they can object to.

Just following the precedent set by the "yes campaign".
They want to talk about other countries, but not when you point out the negatives.
They want to wave safe schools placards at pro ssm rallies, but want to pretend later that the two aren't related when the negatives of safe schools is pointed out.

Again, hypocrites.
I've only used the same arguments they've tried to use to push for a yes vote.
Not happy Jan? Go call someone who cares.

[Nathan]

[Nort]

It just makes me so sad that people arguing we need changes to law to "protect religious freedom" apparently like the status quo and think it is fine for society to ignore those who have religious objections to interfaith marriages, interracial marriages, or divorced people getting married. Society won't be truly free until any service provider has you fill out a checklist of what you are buying, what it is for, and who will be consuming/using it to ensure you meet their religious standards as a customer.

Name one major religion that refuses interacial marriages.

You think there are no people out there with those views?

Name one major religion that refuses interacial marriages.

Greek orthodox.

Excerpt from this book:

ORTHODOX VIEW OF INTERRACIAL MARRIAGE

Bishop Iakovos, Prof. of Orthodox Theology, Holy Cross Greek Orthodox School of Theology. 1987.

"No matter what Hollywood say, I can't believe God smiles on such (interracial) marriages."

https://www.amazon.com/Orthodox-Church- ... 0937032565

A friend, Greek Orthodox, married an Irish girl, in a Greek church.
I have a cousin in Greece, who married an Albanian girl, in a Greek church. I have another cousin who married a Vietnamese girl in a Greek church.
Plenty of Italians and Greeks who have gotten married in each others churches as well.
Plenty of Greeks, Serbs, Russians, Ukrainians, Italians, Polish etc, who have also gotten married in each others churches as well.

Some bishops personal opinion, and that's what it is, is irrelevant in reality and practice.
Try again Ben.

Ooh, we're doing personal anecdotes are we?

A few years ago I married a girl from a Greek Orthodox background.

Since I wasn't Greek Orthodox we weren't allowed to get married in the Greek Orthodox church, and after we got married outside that church she was informed that she wasn't welcome to participate in communion there. Some members of her family even expressed the view that the marriage wasn't "real" since it didn't meet their religious standards. Sound familiar?

Like I said earlier in the thread, this isn't truly about equality. It's about attacking the norm, attacking our judeo-christian foundations of western countries predominantly. It's only taken a short while for the disdain some of you have for Christianity, and probably religion in general, to shine through.

No, it's entirely about equality among the vast majority of those supporting it. There are multiple polls even suggesting a majority of Australian christians support marriage equality, how self-righteous and arrogant of you to presume to tell them that they are just doing it to attack judeo-christian foundations.

[Matt]

"Should the law be changed to allow same-sex couples to marry?"

Fairly straightforward.

I'd say simplistic. It's entirely possible to vote no because you believe no one should have the legal right to marry. That would also result in equal legal rights. In fact, it's exactly what Rev has been advocating for over the past gazillion pages.

This is a question of whether or not to allow same sex couples the right to marry.

That’s the question on the ballot, that’s the “debate” we’ve endured for the last few weeks, months, years.

Neither the “yes” camp, nor the “no” camp are advocating for the legal right to marry to be removed altogether.

As for Rev’s barely coherent ranting, I haven’t a clue what he/she has or hasn’t been “advocating.”
I tend to scroll past convoluted bluster.

[rev]

It just makes me so sad that people arguing we need changes to law to "protect religious freedom" apparently like the status quo and think it is fine for society to ignore those who have religious objections to interfaith marriages, interracial marriages, or divorced people getting married. Society won't be truly free until any service provider has you fill out a checklist of what you are buying, what it is for, and who will be consuming/using it to ensure you meet their religious standards as a customer.

Name one major religion that refuses interacial marriages.

You think there are no people out there with those views?

That’s not what I said.
Why can’t you people be honest when debating?
And you called me the bad person. Lol

Greek orthodox.

Excerpt from this book:

ORTHODOX VIEW OF INTERRACIAL MARRIAGE

Bishop Iakovos, Prof. of Orthodox Theology, Holy Cross Greek Orthodox School of Theology. 1987.

"No matter what Hollywood say, I can't believe God smiles on such (interracial) marriages."

https://www.amazon.com/Orthodox-Church- ... 0937032565

A friend, Greek Orthodox, married an Irish girl, in a Greek church.
I have a cousin in Greece, who married an Albanian girl, in a Greek church. I have another cousin who married a Vietnamese girl in a Greek church.
Plenty of Italians and Greeks who have gotten married in each others churches as well.
Plenty of Greeks, Serbs, Russians, Ukrainians, Italians, Polish etc, who have also gotten married in each others churches as well.

Some bishops personal opinion, and that's what it is, is irrelevant in reality and practice.
Try again Ben.

Ooh, we're doing personal anecdotes are we?

A few years ago I married a girl from a Greek Orthodox background.

Since I wasn't Greek Orthodox we weren't allowed to get married in the Greek Orthodox church, and after we got married outside that church she was informed that she wasn't welcome to participate in communion there. Some members of her family even expressed the view that the marriage wasn't "real" since it didn't meet their religious standards. Sound familiar?[/quote]

Sure you did.
But lets plat along for those reading at home, and yet again expose Nort as someone who lies, and posts misinformation.

Greek Orthodox does not exclusively refer to an individual being Greek. It is the name of the religion. Much the same way that someone of the Roman Catholic Church is not exclusively “Roman” or Italian. It’s the name of the religion.
I’m sure you know they were once the one church/religion.

So just based on that, you’re very likely lying.

But continuing to play your game, let’s pretend your wife is of Greek background. Her family’s views and opinions mean what exactly in the context of this side argument?

Tell me your background Nort, I’m sure I can easily find something and use it out of context here.

Like I said earlier in the thread, this isn't truly about equality. It's about attacking the norm, attacking our judeo-christian foundations of western countries predominantly. It's only taken a short while for the disdain some of you have for Christianity, and probably religion in general, to shine through.

No, it's entirely about equality among the vast majority of those supporting it. There are multiple polls even suggesting a majority of Australian christians support marriage equality, how self-righteous and arrogant of you to presume to tell them that they are just doing it to attack judeo-christian foundations.
[/quote]

There were multiple polls suggesting Clinton would become president, reality was different however. I bet it still burns.

A majority of people who are born into Christianity because their parents and/or grand parents are, who may have been baptised, and may self identify if asked as Christian are not necessarily Christian, as most don’t even practice their religion in most western countries anymore and never have. How many attend church services? Most don’t. Most wouldn’t even know that Santa Claus is based on Saint Nicholas, an actual person from the second century. Then again most wouldn’t even know that the “image” of Santa Claus with his white beard and red suit is a creation by Coca Cola lol.
So their opinions from a Christian perspective are irrelevant.

Again, stop accusing me of saying things I clearly have not said.
If you can’t debate honestly then stop.

[rev]

"Should the law be changed to allow same-sex couples to marry?"

Fairly straightforward.

I'd say simplistic. It's entirely possible to vote no because you believe no one should have the legal right to marry. That would also result in equal legal rights. In fact, it's exactly what Rev has been advocating for over the past gazillion pages.

This is a question of whether or not to allow same sex couples the right to marry.

That’s the question on the ballot, that’s the “debate” we’ve endured for the last few weeks, months, years.

Neither the “yes” camp, nor the “no” camp are advocating for the legal right to marry to be removed altogether.

As for Rev’s barely coherent ranting, I haven’t a clue what he/she has or hasn’t been “advocating.”
I tend to scroll past convoluted bluster.

Game set match. See you at the next one Matty

[serca]

I can see where rev is coming from in most of what he says......

Seems rev is the rainbow coloured sheep of this forum

I'd say black sheep but being cautious, just like black boards and baa baa black sheep and many others have been amended in our schools so not to offend

[Nort]

Sure you did.
But lets plat along for those reading at home, and yet again expose Nort as someone who lies, and posts misinformation.

Greek Orthodox does not exclusively refer to an individual being Greek. It is the name of the religion. Much the same way that someone of the Roman Catholic Church is not exclusively “Roman” or Italian. It’s the name of the religion.
I’m sure you know they were once the one church/religion.

So just based on that, you’re very likely lying.

"The Greek Orthodox church wouldn't exclude people!"

*provides example of exclusion (which is quite rightfully and legally allowed under existing laws, meaning your constant screeching about how same same marriage will somehow take away churches freedom is certifiably false)*

"You're a liar!"

I made the mistake of getting caught up in your constant goal shifting right wing nonsense again, will avoid that in future.

[Nort]

I'd say black sheep but being cautious, just like black boards and baa baa black sheep and many others have been amended in our schools so not to offend

That's basically an urban legend at this point. There have been one or two cases and people jumped to the conclusion it was widespread political correctness gone mad.

[Ben]

I actually didn't know you could do that. Thanks for opening my eyes up. It will make reading opinions on this forum suddenly a whole lot more truthful.