News & Discussion: Trams

[Ben]

When is this due to be open. Obviously not before the election?

The official brochures circulated in last July said late in the first quarter of 2018. I haven't seen anything that differs substantially since then.

That timeframe is literally from mid March to the end of April. I guess the exact date would depend on how the testing goes. I can't see them finishing by the election from where they are now. They might have the stops finished and the overhead up by then, but still be in testing mode is my guess.

A quarter is 4 equal portions. First quarter of a 12 month year is first 3 months. Late in first quarter would mean March. Not end of April.

[Llessur2002]

I read through the ALP 200 page pdf of what they were going to do as far as trams was concerned.

Basically, it was continue with Adelink, but with no details of what or when. In other words, anything from nothing to something, maybe sometime.

Sounds like if they have some spare money sometime, they might do something.

Well, it doesn't look like my vote is going to be swayed by this one way or the other least.

What document was that? Do you have a link?

[Norman]

I read through the ALP 200 page pdf of what they were going to do as far as trams was concerned.

Basically, it was continue with Adelink, but with no details of what or when. In other words, anything from nothing to something, maybe sometime.

Sounds like if they have some spare money sometime, they might do something.

Well, it doesn't look like my vote is going to be swayed by this one way or the other least.

Mullighan said in a news item yesterday that they will release more information about the tram plan in the campaign. Watch this space.

[Kasey771]

I read through the ALP 200 page pdf of what they were going to do as far as trams was concerned.

Basically, it was continue with Adelink, but with no details of what or when. In other words, anything from nothing to something, maybe sometime.

Sounds like if they have some spare money sometime, they might do something.

Well, it doesn't look like my vote is going to be swayed by this one way or the other least.

Mullighan said in a news item yesterday that they will release more information about the tram plan in the campaign. Watch this space.

Depends on the detail of course, but more tram lines could very well entice this lifelong non labor voter to do the previously unthinkable and put a 1 in a box on a ballot paper next to a labor candidate’s name!


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[rubberman]

I read through the ALP 200 page pdf of what they were going to do as far as trams was concerned.

Basically, it was continue with Adelink, but with no details of what or when. In other words, anything from nothing to something, maybe sometime.

Sounds like if they have some spare money sometime, they might do something.

Well, it doesn't look like my vote is going to be swayed by this one way or the other least.

What document was that? Do you have a link?

Warning: Political content.

https://www.standingupforsouthaustralia.com.au/policies

There's a download link there (21MB).

[rubberman]

When is this due to be open. Obviously not before the election?

The official brochures circulated in last July said late in the first quarter of 2018. I haven't seen anything that differs substantially since then.

That timeframe is literally from mid March to the end of April. I guess the exact date would depend on how the testing goes. I can't see them finishing by the election from where they are now. They might have the stops finished and the overhead up by then, but still be in testing mode is my guess.

A quarter is 4 equal portions. First quarter of a 12 month year is first 3 months. Late in first quarter would mean March. Not end of April.

Fair call. End of March it is. Lets see how they do.

As of today, the South platform at Gawler Place has been started and the slings have gone up for the overhead on North Terrace.

[Nort]

It just occurred to me why the Liberals have been repeatedly beating the "NO RIGHT TURN FOR THE TRAM?!?" drum so hard. Only partly because they are in opposition and thus must oppose everything. Mostly I expect it's to sow the seeds for abandoning the tram expansion post-election, when if the Libs win they will immediately say that the whole tram planning process was mismanaged and needs to be taken back to the drawing board (where it will sit indefinitely).

[rubberman]

It just occurred to me why the Liberals have been repeatedly beating the "NO RIGHT TURN FOR THE TRAM?!?" drum so hard. Only partly because they are in opposition and thus must oppose everything. Mostly I expect it's to sow the seeds for abandoning the tram expansion post-election, when if the Libs win they will immediately say that the whole tram planning process was mismanaged and needs to be taken back to the drawing board (where it will sit indefinitely).

I am really conflicted here.

Given that the present government has seriously underutilised the tram extensions by not using the track as a busway as well, it's a huge multi-million dollar per km loss of opportunity. The use of Citadis is going to bite the public in the bum really hard, as they are really hard on track. I checked the wear on the curves in the North of Victoria Square, and the wear is huge after only ten years. I'll bet it's the same on all the curves on the system where there's any speed. That's on this government.

On the other hand, the trams are a big success, and when the line crosses Grenfell Street in East Terrace, people can get off the O-Bahn and transfer to go down North Terrace, or down Hutt to the South of the CBD, that will be bigger than many expect.

At the moment, it's a one horse race, but that horse is sway backed and staggering like it has the calici virus.

Opponents who pick on the right turn, or the project management, are missing the real areas where criticism might be valid, and leave themselves open to easy rebuttal.

[Patrick_27]

I read through the ALP 200 page pdf of what they were going to do as far as trams was concerned.

Basically, it was continue with Adelink, but with no details of what or when. In other words, anything from nothing to something, maybe sometime.

Sounds like if they have some spare money sometime, they might do something.

Well, it doesn't look like my vote is going to be swayed by this one way or the other least.

At-least they have some kind of a plan... What are the Libs planning on doing?

[rubberman]

I read through the ALP 200 page pdf of what they were going to do as far as trams was concerned.

Basically, it was continue with Adelink, but with no details of what or when. In other words, anything from nothing to something, maybe sometime.

Sounds like if they have some spare money sometime, they might do something.

Well, it doesn't look like my vote is going to be swayed by this one way or the other least.

At-least they have some kind of a plan... What are the Libs planning on doing?

Well, that's the opportunity they have over the next 3.5 weeks. It's up to each party to develop policies and convince us they can do better than the other parties.

I certainly hope the Liberals and SA Best can offer something competitive in this and other areas. If they do, then they deserve a go at the helm. If they don't, then we'd be foolish to vote for them.

[PD2/20]

...

The use of Citadis is going to bite the public in the bum really hard, as they are really hard on track. I checked the wear on the curves in the North of Victoria Square, and the wear is huge after only ten years. I'll bet it's the same on all the curves on the system where there's any speed. That's on this government.

...

I like the logic.

• There is wear on Adelaide city tram tracks

• Citadis trams run on the system

• Therefore Citadis cause the wear

Citadis may be responsible for the wear. However since the City West and the Hindmarsh extensions with their curves have seen mixed Flexity and Citadis operation since their construction you can't infer from the track condition in Adelaide that Citadis are solely responsible.

It's of note that on the Glengowrie depot west curve that Flexities are more prone to squeal than the Citadis.

[rubberman]

...

The use of Citadis is going to bite the public in the bum really hard, as they are really hard on track. I checked the wear on the curves in the North of Victoria Square, and the wear is huge after only ten years. I'll bet it's the same on all the curves on the system where there's any speed. That's on this government.

...

I like the logic.

• There is wear on Adelaide city tram tracks

• Citadis trams run on the system

• Therefore Citadis cause the wear

Citadis may be responsible for the wear. However since the City West and the Hindmarsh extensions with their curves have seen mixed Flexity and Citadis operation since their construction you can't infer from the track condition in Adelaide that Citadis are solely responsible.

It's of note that on the Glengowrie depot west curve that Flexities are more prone to squeal than the Citadis.

Nah, I had a misspent youth that had me looking through back copies of "The Street Railway Journal" dating from the early 1900s. Those journals covered the subject of the effects of fixed bogie cars both in theory and in practice. That theory and practice showed fixed bogie cars like the Citadis chewed up track so fast they were uneconomic. Further, it's first year uni Engineering Dynamics at work. If you have to rotate the whole mass of a carriage, vs the mass of the bogie only, then the force required to rotate the whole mass is proportionally larger. That force is exerted on the track. Further, since almost exactly 100 years ago, tram operators round the world went away from fixed bogie vehicles, the last ones built in Adelaide were the C class. Even then they were only built because of wartime shortages,mand the MTT went to rotating bogie cars ASAP afterwards. Finally, just sit at the end of a tram going round the curves and you can feel the lurch in the Citadis which is absent in the Flexity. That lurch represents track wear.



http://www.historyworks.com.au/1206screen4.pdf
http://www.historyworks.com.au/TAloopsarticle.pdf

So, yep. It's the Citadis. Noice looking trams, but the laws of physics haven't changed in the last 100 years.

BTW, I am curious. Do you know how much they ease the gauge on curves in Adelaide? Or have a reference to such?

[The Scooter Guy]

Just like 'bringing an old tram route from the dead after 60 years!'

[rubberman]

Copper up over the East End crossover

20180219_162647_resized.jpg (1.47 MiB) Viewed 2844 times

[adelaide transport]

According to a twitter post by Matthew Pantelis(5aa) the new Citadis trams(207/208/209) will enter service on March 11th when according to an Adelaide Metro source the new North Terrace Extension is due to open!
A lot of work to be done in next 2 weeks to finish all the work and test the new trams and the tracks.