News & Discussion: Trams

[timtam20292]

Just goes to show how gutless they are, deleting your comment instead of responding to it.

[Llessur2002]

Even beyond that. I left a comment on the Nick Mitzevich story stating how much of a loss it is (like others) but also hoped that he could use his remaining time with AGSA to cement the Adelaide Contemporary. *vvvvpppp* deleted. I have a feeling I'm on some sort of watch list, as it's happened quite a few times.

I saw that comment - it really wasn't that harsh at all. Shows just how little substance the Libs have behind some of their ideas if they can't even justify why they chose the site of the long-planned contemporary gallery to house the indigenous gallery when there were plenty of other options for the latter.

[Nathan]

Even beyond that. I left a comment on the Nick Mitzevich story stating how much of a loss it is (like others) but also hoped that he could use his remaining time with AGSA to cement the Adelaide Contemporary. *vvvvpppp* deleted. I have a feeling I'm on some sort of watch list, as it's happened quite a few times.

I saw that comment - it really wasn't that harsh at all. Shows just how little substance the Libs have behind some of their ideas if they can't even justify why they chose the site of the long-planned contemporary gallery to house the indigenous gallery when there were plenty of other options for the latter.

I've heard some things that suggest why that site was chosen, but it's all very much here-say. Let's just say it's likely very intentional, and it wasn't the Libs idea. It's certainly on the Libs to answer the question though.

[Llessur2002]

If the Libs do make a tram announcement other than needlessly replacing the KWS/NT junction, my money's on the airport line but with Downer funding it.

The question is - would Downer be interested in running trams on SDB or Richmond Road, or would they insist on Henley Beach Road?

[PD2/20]

Here's the article. It's literally madness - the money that would be spend in ripping up and re-grading the entire intersection to introduce right hand turns that would cripple the intersection would surely be much better used to extend the network a little further e.g. if anything, why not just cross the KWS street bridge and put a stop outside the Oval? It would probably cost around the same...

SA Election 2018: Liberal leader Steven Marshall promises to make North Terrace tram services turn right

TRAMS will turn right onto North Terrace from King William Rd — if the State Liberals win Government.

The State Government last year announced it would spend $80 million on an upgrade to deliver four new stops, one at Festival Plaza behind Parliament House and three along North Tce to service the museum and library precinct as well as universities and the East End.

However, the notorious intersection drew criticism for not permitting a right hand turn that would seamlessly connect services on the Glenelg line with the East End.

Works to upgrade the intersection were completed earlier this year.

On Thursday, the State Liberals pledged they will “Labor‘s tram joke and let trams turn right”.

Previous expert analysis commissioned by the Greens revealed a right turn for trams on North Tce would cost an estimated $37 million.

The documents were produced by the new Parliamentary Budget Advisory Service in February in response to an application by Greens MP Mark Parnell.

It declined a request to model a cost of including a right hand turn as part of the original build.

However, the PBAS also warns that its estimate for a new build is of “low reliability” and “detailed costing will need to be undertaken to deliver a better cost estimate”.

“To add a right turn, the full intersection will be reconstructed to adjust the plane of the entire intersection to an acceptable gradient,” PBAS chief executive John Hill reports.

“There are significant risks with the geometry of the intersection that impact whether trams could safely navigate through right hand turn movements.”

Trams have formed a large part of Premier Jay Weatherill’s broader infrastructure plan as Labor campaigns to be returned to power on March 17.

Labor has promised more than $500 million to tram projects so far this campaign, including extensions to North Adelaide and Norwood.

From: http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/sa-e ... 8594078a4f

Does the addition of the second track on the S-E curve actually require the regrading of the entire junction? It appears that all the point and crossing work in the recent construction is on the level. The SW curve used by the current service was constructed without problem. I can see however that completion of the NW and NE curves would entail substantial regrading.

[[Shuz]]

I'm deeply concerned about the Liberals take on this. There's common sense and then there's this... idiocy.

The government have confirmed the reasoning behind the no right turn on several occasions now, that services are to run north-south and east-west, hence no need for the right hand turn.

I'm baffled that an entire party comprising of several hundred individuals cannot see the logic to this argument and that it has gone so far as to clear the leadership group and been signed off as policy. An absolutely sad state of affairs.

[Haso]

If the Libs do make a tram announcement other than needlessly replacing the KWS/NT junction, my money's on the airport line but with Downer funding it.

The question is - would Downer be interested in running trams on SDB or Richmond Road, or would they insist on Henley Beach Road?

I am not advocating this option “so please do not shout at me”, but when I arrived in Adelaide there was also talk about using Keswick creek as a cheapest corridor for tram (light rail) between City – Mile End and the airport…
.

[Nathan]

This is not to excuse the idiocy, but I can't help but think a lot of this could have been avoided if DPTI and Adelaide Metro were more proactive in showing the intended routes, and the frequencies that could be expected. The vacuum of clear communication has given space that has been filled with FUD from the media and the Liberal party.

[Waewick]

A few reporters are suggesting more to come over the next week.

Otherwise seems like a fairly pointless promise.

[PD2/20]

A few reporters are suggesting more to come over the next week.

Otherwise seems like a fairly pointless promise.

At least two sets of points and three diamond crossings will be required.

[rubberman]

If the Libs do make a tram announcement other than needlessly replacing the KWS/NT junction, my money's on the airport line but with Downer funding it.

The question is - would Downer be interested in running trams on SDB or Richmond Road, or would they insist on Henley Beach Road?

I am not advocating this option “so please do not shout at me”, but when I arrived in Adelaide there was also talk about using Keswick creek as a cheapest corridor for tram (light rail) between City – Mile End and the airport…
.

I like shouting, lol.

Actually, the Keswick Creek option isn't a bad idea if the intention is just to provide an airport link. The Downer proposal only has three stops on Henley Beach Road, so it's a fairly inefficient use of the road space. The Keswick Creek option would be as good as, or maybe better than that in terms of usefulness.

FWIW, while I think the right hand turn is spectacularly stupid, I also think we should give the alternative government a fair go and see what they come up with in terms of a tram policy in the next week. Or more to the point, an infrastructure policy, since trams are only a part of the picture. I don’t think that Labor has set a terribly high bar to step over. For me, this means that after 12 years in opposition, the Liberals should have some fresh ideas and a low bar to step over. If they have nothing in mind after 12 years to think of something, it would be pretty damning.

[Llessur2002]

I guess that if Marshall gets his way there won't be a Norwood line so any east-west tram services won't extend further than Botanic Park. In which case implementing the right turn might be as much of a political statement about not wanting a Norwood line as it is about cashing in on the uninformed 'no right turn' argument.

[Norman]

If the Liberal Party come to the table with an underground train loop, I'll seriously consider voting for them. The city has grown. Offices are spread far through the city now, down to the Central Markets and past Hindmarsh Square. It's time to act and build it. I believe it will turbocharge residential growth around our train network and maybe even double train patronage.

[citywatcher]

Problem is they would never be capable of leading such a project in a million years
It's chance came , left and is gone forever .

Sent from my SM-J730G using Tapatalk

[Norman]

Looks like the Liberal tram plan is here!

Election 2018: Liberal Party reveals broad transport plan for Adelaide
Daniel Wills, State Political Editor, The Advertiser
23 minutes ago



TRAMS looping around the CBD and a spur line heading north past the Adelaide Oval would be investigated by a new authority in charge of public transport under a Liberal plan.

Opposition Leader Steven Marshall promised $37 million to fix the North Tce “tram joke” and allow carriages to turn right from King William St to the East End.

The Advertiser also can reveal the Liberals’ broader transport plan includes a new SA Public Transport Authority to investigate “major reform” to ticket pricing and routes.

The policy does not commit the Liberals to building new tram lines, but says options, including a North Adelaide spur and city loops would be considered by an independent expert body to see if they stack up.

Mr Marshall said he would also consider trials of “high capacity electric buses” to prove they were better and cheaper than building fixed tram tracks that disrupted on-street parking, traffic and businesses.

The Liberals also would review fares, with an aim to increase public transport use and simplify the system.

Options include day passes so trips over a set number become free on weekdays, Saturday discounts and capped fares on Sundays and public holidays.

The Liberals also would consider discounted semester passes for university and TAFE students, and card or mobile payments.

Mr Marshall said the Liberals would also clarify the frequency of services with new Go Zones that have 15 minute or half-hour departures.

Labor has pledged half a billion dollars in tram extensions with lines to Prospect and Norwood, in the heart of Mr Marshall’s own electorate.

The Liberals have categorically ruled out the Norwood tram as well as mooted lines to Unley and the Adelaide Airport via Henley Beach Rd.

Their policy leaves the door open to further O-Bahn upgrades despite controversy over Labor’s $160 million parklands tunnel extension. The Liberals would consider taking the existing service beyond Tea Tree Plaza to the Golden Grove Shopping Centre.

The new SA Public Transport Authority would be required to make annual reports to the government about public satisfaction with services and ideas for change.

Mr Marshall said the existing public transport network was “not meeting customer expectations or needs”. “Less use of public transport means more congestion on our roads and higher costs for households using cars rather than the bus, tram or train,” he said.

“We have a bus network that is ... too infrequent to attract new customers.”

Premier Jay Weatherill dismissed the Liberal right-turn pledge, which Labor says will worsen traffic for cars and pedestrians as well are require the North Tce and Rundle St intersection to be dug up again for another month of work.

“It doesn’t take you any further than our vision,” Mr Weaherill said. “Steven Marshall doesn’t know where he’s headed in relation to trams.

“He is utterly confused.”

Mr Weatherill last month promised to save some commuters more than $300 a year with cut 28-day pass fares that apply from April 3. That will be matched by the Liberals.

Some thoughts:
- The tram plan is good, but a bit complicated. I can see that they are trying to link up as many places as possible, but I'm not sure if this is the end game or if it can be expanded further.
- The tram plan is non-committal. This is probably because Labor refuses to publicly release business plans and documentation, which is a real shame as it doesn't allow for real policy debate.
- The fact that all other tram plans are "ruled out" is disappointing.
- The fact that $37m will be spent on the right turn for peak-only services is silly.
- Do we really need another authority to replace Adelaide Metro? I know their service, especially around IT and communication leaves much to be desired, but I'm not sure if a new authority would fix this.
- Electric buses: Too little detail to critique.
- Fare capping? Yes please!