[U/C] M2 North-South Motorway

[Llessur2002]

My guess - I reckon the trench will continue with surface-level roads each side pretty much until Henley Beach Road where a short cut and cover tunnel will allow the surface roads to run directly above the motorway - meaning that the Thebby, Council Chambers and school can remain untouched. That'll be the most sensitive area I would have thought. North of that, the land purchasing will be to the west of the existing road to allow the row of local heritage listed buildings to remain. However, north of that I reckon the West Thebby hotel will sadly be demo'd in favor of keeping the new community centre and the state heritage listed bunker.

To the south, I reckon there'll be a second cut and cover tunnel at the SDB intersection which will mean the Hilton and Electricity Co warehouses can remain in place.

The two cut and cover tunnels fit in with the 2015 statement about two short tunnels being planned.

On-off ramps for HBR and SDB can be further to the north or south of the intersections (i.e. there won't be direct ramps onto the motorway like at the SEXY intersections, you'll have to turn onto and travel a little way along the surface road before moving down a ramp into the trench as per the Port Road/South Road intersection). In fact, HBR might not even get direct motorway access - will it need it?

[Mr Smith]

My guess - I reckon the trench will continue with surface-level roads each side pretty much until Henley Beach Road where a short cut and cover tunnel will allow the surface roads to run directly above the motorway - meaning that the Thebby, Council Chambers and school can remain untouched. That'll be the most sensitive area I would have thought. North of that, the land purchasing will be to the west of the existing road to allow the row of state heritage listed buildings to remain. However, north of that I reckon the West Thebby hotel will sadly be demo'd in favor of keeping the new community centre and the state heritage listed bunker.

To the south, I reckon there'll be a second cut and cover tunnel at the SDB intersection which will mean the Hilton and Electricity Co warehouses can remain in place.

The two cut and cover tunnels fit in with the 2015 statement about two short tunnels being planned.

On-off ramps for HBR and SDB can be further to the north or south of the intersections (i.e. there won't be direct ramps onto the motorway like at the SEXY intersections, you'll have to turn onto and travel a little way along the surface road before moving down a ramp into the trench as per the Port Road/South Road intersection). In fact, HBR might not even get direct motorway access - will it need it?

I tend to agree. Airport and city access/exit to expressway via SDB

[alexczarn]

Wasn't it noted in the delivery strategy that it would be southbound off/northbound on ramps @ Sir Donald Bradman Drive, and northbound off/southbound on ramps @ James Congdon Drive?

[claybro]

Looks like a good option. I also don't believe Henley Beach road needs a ramp onto the motorway. Anyone in that vicinity wanting to travel north or south can use the surface road, until access is available at the next major intersections, remembering the primary purpose of the motorway is freight and not commuter traffic.

[rev]

My guess - I reckon the trench will continue with surface-level roads each side pretty much until Henley Beach Road where a short cut and cover tunnel will allow the surface roads to run directly above the motorway - meaning that the Thebby, Council Chambers and school can remain untouched. That'll be the most sensitive area I would have thought. North of that, the land purchasing will be to the west of the existing road to allow the row of local heritage listed buildings to remain. However, north of that I reckon the West Thebby hotel will sadly be demo'd in favor of keeping the new community centre and the state heritage listed bunker.

To the south, I reckon there'll be a second cut and cover tunnel at the SDB intersection which will mean the Hilton and Electricity Co warehouses can remain in place.

The two cut and cover tunnels fit in with the 2015 statement about two short tunnels being planned.

On-off ramps for HBR and SDB can be further to the north or south of the intersections (i.e. there won't be direct ramps onto the motorway like at the SEXY intersections, you'll have to turn onto and travel a little way along the surface road before moving down a ramp into the trench as per the Port Road/South Road intersection). In fact, HBR might not even get direct motorway access - will it need it?

Could possibly have access to the motorway from HBR running over that tunnel and to the sides?
There's plenty of room to acquire/demolish/realign the HBR/SR intersection to the south of the current intersection, so I guess there'd be room for access to be added?

[rev]

State heritage stuff on South Road between the Torrens and the Southern Expy for the curious:

The Society of Magicians -if you're familiar with the area it's the underground bunker there (corner Ashley St, West side of road)
Thebarton Theatre/old Thebarton council offices (cnr Henley Beach, W)
Adelaide Electric Supply Co warehouses (cnr Donald Bradman, E)
Ackland House (next to the tram overpass, E)
St. Mary's Anglican Church (just past Daws Road heading South, E)

I'd suggest that of those the Society of Magicians is the one that'd be the least politically fraught to bulldoze, but simultaneously it'd probably be the easiest of those to build around.

The bunker on the corner of South Road/Ashwin parade is from WW2 I believe.

[claybro]

Could possibly have access to the motorway from HBR running over that tunnel and to the sides?
There's plenty of room to acquire/demolish/realign the HBR/SR intersection to the south of the current intersection, so I guess there'd be room for access to be added?

A south access ramp would be possible, but heading North, the ramp would need to be well past that intersection to be past the heritage buildings either side. As this intersection would be the closest to the central CBD, this may not even be desirable as it may cause commuter traffic congestion as people will use it as an alternative to Port Road, to get to the motorway quicker. The motorway is not being built to facilitate getting commuters into or out of the CBD.

[rev]

Could possibly have access to the motorway from HBR running over that tunnel and to the sides?
There's plenty of room to acquire/demolish/realign the HBR/SR intersection to the south of the current intersection, so I guess there'd be room for access to be added?

A south access ramp would be possible, but heading North, the ramp would need to be well past that intersection to be past the heritage buildings either side. As this intersection would be the closest to the central CBD, this may not even be desirable as it may cause commuter traffic congestion as people will use it as an alternative to Port Road, to get to the motorway quicker. The motorway is not being built to facilitate getting commuters into or out of the CBD.

Freight may be the primary focus, but you're kidding your self if you think there's no consideration of other road users, particularly cars who are the biggest users of our roads.

It's not just trucks with trailers that make up our freight. Courier vans and smaller trucks are also an important part of freight, and with the e-commerce economy growing continually every year, will become and even bigger part of our freight on the roads.

As for cars, if less cars are on regular roads and arterial roads, to travel notable distances, that eases congestion. In turn that eases the cost of road maintenance and the necessity of upgrades.

With the backlog in road maintenance in this state we damn well should be getting government tolled motorways/freeways, at the very least for freight vehicles, if not design a smart/intelligent system with rego plate recognizing cameras where you start being charged after X amount of uses, where the money raised from the tolls is directly used to finance road maintenance. Remember the freight industry is all for being tolled on motorways/freeways.

[SBD]

Could possibly have access to the motorway from HBR running over that tunnel and to the sides?
There's plenty of room to acquire/demolish/realign the HBR/SR intersection to the south of the current intersection, so I guess there'd be room for access to be added?

A south access ramp would be possible, but heading North, the ramp would need to be well past that intersection to be past the heritage buildings either side. As this intersection would be the closest to the central CBD, this may not even be desirable as it may cause commuter traffic congestion as people will use it as an alternative to Port Road, to get to the motorway quicker. The motorway is not being built to facilitate getting commuters into or out of the CBD.

I expect that from HBR, northbound would be on the arterial/surface road until an entrance between the river and Grange Road. Southbound I expect to be just after James Congdon Drive if I've read the overview properly.

Looking at a map, I think the space from which turning from Henley Beach Road to South Road would be the preferred route now to get to north of Torrens Road or south of Anzac Highway is relatively small anyway, so having two sets of traffic lights on South Road before getting to the freeway isn't too bad.

The critical issue at HBR in the strategy document is not about getting people on and off of South Road, it is the current long delays encountered by people trying to cross South Road in and out of the City.

[how good is he]

I agree with the likely route above but there are some contentious points a) the Community Centre & West Theb Hotel. If any of these have to be affected it would be scandalous as the Council owned and only recently built the community centre & agreed to plans and contributed some $10m to the roads around the Brickworks. They could have quite easily built the community centre further back and required similar with the Brickworks. b) Along the route at 200 South Rd cnr Cowra St is a beautiful former Church now Bernie Lewis Home Loans. That would have to be protected but there is a bit of parking at the front that could be lost. c) The drive-thru On The Run & the BP on the corner of Henley Bch Rd would be big payouts [or end up in court]. d) Similarly the Drummond Golf [formerly Ormsbys/Petes Golf factory] which is massive Vs buying part of The St George College opp. e) Similarly Hilton Hotel Vs the heritage listed Tram buildings. So my thoughts are to avoid all of this is a tunnel going from say George or Rose St on South Rd under Henley Bch Rd continuing under Sir Don Bradman Dr [say 2 km] and then tunnel under Richmond Rd to join the Anzac H'way underpass.

[SBD]

I agree with the likely route above but there are some contentious points a) the Community Centre & West Theb Hotel. If any of these have to be affected it would be scandalous as the Council owned and only recently built the community centre & agreed to plans and contributed some $10m to the roads around the Brickworks. They could have quite easily built the community centre further back and required similar with the Brickworks. b) Along the route at 200 South Rd cnr Cowra St is a beautiful former Church now Bernie Lewis Home Loans. That would have to be protected but there is a bit of parking at the front that could be lost. c) The drive-thru On The Run & the BP on the corner of Henley Bch Rd would be big payouts [or end up in court]. d) Similarly the Drummond Golf [formerly Ormsbys/Petes Golf factory] which is massive Vs buying part of The St George College opp. e) Similarly Hilton Hotel Vs the heritage listed Tram buildings. So my thoughts are to avoid all of this is a tunnel going from say George or Rose St on South Rd under Henley Bch Rd continuing under Sir Don Bradman Dr [say 2 km] and then tunnel under Richmond Rd to join the Anzac H'way underpass.

There looks to be seven lanes and a median strip at the moment in front of the West Thebarton Hotel. I think the requirement for the freeway is a total of ten lanes on two levels. If the top layer is cantilevered over the bottom layer, it probably doesn't count as a "tunnel", whichever road ends up on top (elevated or lowered freeway with the arterial on ground level).

It's hard to imagine not losing Urbanstone and three or four houses north of the river.

If the theatre and St George College aren't touched, then I'd guess AM/PM BP and Drummond Golf could be safe too.

If the space of the non-fuel OTR is needed, I imagine that some kind of commercial arrangement can be agreed - perhaps a concession for a service centre along the freeway somewhere out of town? Surely drive-through Smokemart is a declining business.

Hilton Hotel/tram barns are next to the second "short tunnel". I haven't seen any mention of Richmond Road, so not sure there.

[[Shuz]]

Rereading the statement released by the State Liberals, there was mention that $1b of the project cost is for property acquisition alone. This makes me think that the project is likely to be a trench, not a tunnel, and what is meant by a short tunnel is just really a glorified way of saying a "big underpass".

[Furyan]

I agree with the likely route above but there are some contentious points a) the Community Centre & West Theb Hotel. If any of these have to be affected it would be scandalous as the Council owned and only recently built the community centre & agreed to plans and contributed some $10m to the roads around the Brickworks. They could have quite easily built the community centre further back and required similar with the Brickworks. b) Along the route at 200 South Rd cnr Cowra St is a beautiful former Church now Bernie Lewis Home Loans. That would have to be protected but there is a bit of parking at the front that could be lost. c) The drive-thru On The Run & the BP on the corner of Henley Bch Rd would be big payouts [or end up in court]. d) Similarly the Drummond Golf [formerly Ormsbys/Petes Golf factory] which is massive Vs buying part of The St George College opp. e) Similarly Hilton Hotel Vs the heritage listed Tram buildings. So my thoughts are to avoid all of this is a tunnel going from say George or Rose St on South Rd under Henley Bch Rd continuing under Sir Don Bradman Dr [say 2 km] and then tunnel under Richmond Rd to join the Anzac H'way underpass.

There looks to be seven lanes and a median strip at the moment in front of the West Thebarton Hotel. I think the requirement for the freeway is a total of ten lanes on two levels. If the top layer is cantilevered over the bottom layer, it probably doesn't count as a "tunnel", whichever road ends up on top (elevated or lowered freeway with the arterial on ground level).

It's hard to imagine not losing Urbanstone and three or four houses north of the river.

If the theatre and St George College aren't touched, then I'd guess AM/PM BP and Drummond Golf could be safe too.

If the space of the non-fuel OTR is needed, I imagine that some kind of commercial arrangement can be agreed - perhaps a concession for a service centre along the freeway somewhere out of town? Surely drive-through Smokemart is a declining business.

Hilton Hotel/tram barns are next to the second "short tunnel". I haven't seen any mention of Richmond Road, so not sure there.

With regard to the section directly south of the River Torrens the 2015 scoping report, the way I read it, proposed an elevated structure past the Community Centre and adjacent shopping so as to allow a narrow footprint. This elevated structure would also traverse the River Torrens.

This would then presumably not impact on the West Thebarton Hotel.

[aceman]

I'm looking forward to the section between Anzac highway and Tonsley!!! they're building a bunnings at edwardstown!!

[ChillyPhilly]

Here's a visual refresher.