News & Discussion: Water Infrastructure

[stelaras]

Its not as easy as just plonking a DeSal plant anywhere.... The ecological effects (in terms of sea flaura and fauna) could be horrendous to our bays/gulfs and beaches. Remember the extraction is not 100%, so what is left is a highly concentrated brine solution which gets pumped back into the bays/gulf or beach.

The increase in salinity levels would be huge..

[rhino]

This is why a desalination plant needs to be in the open sea, like near Backstairs Passage where the tidal current is huge to dissipate the salt left behind from the process. This is the reason the plant in the upper Spencer Gulf, for water for Roxby Downs, is stalling. There's not enough tidal flow in the upper Spencer Gulf to flush out the salt, and it is one of the world's best cuttlefish breeding grounds that we will be devastating if a plant is built there.

By the way, did you know that Marion Bay got a $500,000 desal plant last week? From what I understand, most of the money came from council.

[rhino]

So what is it with this bucketing water crap?

Here's something I just found in today's Adelaide Now:

JOANNA VAUGHAN, POLITICAL REPORTER
August 30, 2007 03:30pm

THE Opposition has called for the immediate resignation of Water Security Minister Karlene Maywald following federal claims there is no agreement aimed at restricting water use in South Australia.

Federal Environment Minister Malcolm Turnbull sparked a major political row with the State Government this morning when he claimed there was no agreement which forced SA householders to rely on bucket watering for their gardens.

Water restrictions have emerged as a major political issue in the past 24 hours with Mr Turnbull rejecting claims by the Rann Government that tough water restrictions were due to an agreement with the Commonwealth.

In other developments:

FEDERAL Labor MP Steve Georganas revealed he has written to the Rann Government asking them to reconsider the ban on drippers.

MS Maywald said Mr Turnbull was completely wrong.

OPPOSITION Leader Martin Hamilton-Smith said it was time for Ms Maywald to go.


What the hell is going on?

[Professor]

This is really turning into crazy stuff.

Why are domestic consumers in Adelaide always getting the blame when the water is low? We have had water supply problems in Adelaide for years and no State government has done anything about increasing supply since the 70s. Especially the current one, who for 5 years have been happy to pocket the various water levys and profits paid from SA water but have not invested in collection or storage infrastructure. We cannot and should not rely on the Murray river system for so much of our urban water and this has been evident for years.

We could immediately start on increasing the capacity of Mount Bold with a downstream, higher dam. Easy to do from an engineering perspective (with enough money thrown at it) and double the capacity, providing Adelaide almost 2 years supply. To get us through the next couple of years, build a large desal plant where Port Stanvac now is, plenty of deep water to minimise environmental impact and near enough to the urbam dams and water systems to supply the major rerservoirs. The solutions are self evident and similar schemes are now being implemented in Qld, WA, NSW and Victoria. But not in SA.

The price of our water has increased dramatically for the past years, with the volume allowed before penalties also reduced. It is not a matter of simply raising water price: the State government just pockets any additional money for use in its own priorities (ie more spin doctors, whatever) and builds no infrastructure. After 5 years in power they could have done something for waterproofing Adelaide... Anything...

What a mess this now turns out to be with the urban trees, plants and gardens all at risk, as well as gardening, retail and supplier employment at risk etc. The farce is that the sum total of the pain involved in these new Adelaide water restrictions count for zip = less than 1% of the consumption taken from the Murray river. This is just turning into petty politics and misplaced blame, with distraction about a 1in a 100 year drought rubbish. We have had severe droughts in Adelaide during the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s. This is nothing new. With a growing city population and additional demand on water for industry, commerce and domestic use, we need more supply options. It is not a difficult concept! But rather than do anything, the various Ministers look everywhere else except their own inaction. Water seciurity = a govt responsibility. Power security = a govt responsibility. + health, + education, + rule of law etc etc. For a comparison, look at the proactive govt in WA in comparison to this lot! They are actively getting Perth a secure source of its urban water supply. Forever.

Why cannot this government be proactive and positive in its actions and do something concrete, forward-looking and effective? Like oither State governments that are protecting the interests and future of their citizens? Get the spotlight and debate back to where it belongs. Not to Adelaide those citizens being forced to use ridiculous buckets to water plants (ie drippers are more effective and save water) but onto those incompetents who have not had the leadership or capacity to develop the infrastructure any modern city requires to grow and prosper.

[Bulldozer]

Well said Professor! It's like you read my mind about the desal at Pt Stanvac... or maybe I've already posted about that on this forum

As for the brine and the precious fishies.... kill or be killed by dehydration. We need water and there's more ocean than you can poke a stick at.

The question must be asked: Just what the hell have Slick Mick and his cronies done with the HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of dollars they've skimmed from SA Water? Full marks to the Liberals - Maywald is useless and should have been given the boot months ago! Marty is doing a bang-up job and bit by bit they are chipping away at Rann's regime and soon the rotten core will be exposed to all who can't see past his propaganda machine. Note that the state government contributed nothing towards to the Marion Bay desal facility.

Dunstan didn't just shitcan MATS, he also cancelled Playford's water scheme... I haven't been able to find any info about it (not that I've tried that much), but I've heard that all the engineers and planners strongly advised against scrapping it and that part of it was building another dam on the Onkparinga downstream from Clarendon Wier.

Re government subsiding rainwater tanks and on-site sewage treatment - that's what I'm talking about when I say it's not economical compared to large-scale capture and recycling. The Glenelg-Parklands pipeline is to be commended, but in reality it's too little, too late and yet another short-term piecemeal "solution". We need to capture runoff before it drains onto the beach and pump it into a (new) dam in the hills. It can then be treated before entering the mains system or can be piped around in a new secondary mains for use in toilets and on parks and gardens.

Yes, this stuff isn't cheap... but what is the alternative? Do you want to live with permanent water restrictions where there are no trees and plants and the government installs limiters on your water meter to restrict you to a daily quota and circumvention is a jailable offence? Or do you want to live in a green, leafy city where you can leave your taps running all day if you feel like it, because you can afford to pay for it and it's all recycled anyway?

Virtually the whole state relies upon the Murray. The Advertiser has said that 60 gigalitres have been pumped into Adelaide storage - if we had desal and recycling we could have left that water there for the farmers upstream that use it to generate hundreds of millions of dollars worth of income for the state.

It's time to face reality: We're now going to need multiple years of above average rainfall in the headend of the Murray Darling basin to bring the system back to normal. The historical trend is decreasing rainfall. SA needs to build desalination plants to supply every town and city with an inexhaustible supply of water, and it needs a nuclear power plant to run it all. Power and water are crucial to residents, agriculture, industry and mining. The state is already stretched to the limits with both and is going to need a hell of a lot more if the mining boom is to happen.

[Ho Really]

What a mess! I've said it all along, no water, no future for SA. We get this done right we'll be like Dubai!

Cheers

[rhino]

I figure this is infrastructure so I'm putting it here.

The Federal Govt put up $2.03million (which is half the cost) towards the cost of a 18km extension to the Bolivar-Virginia pipeline, extending it to Angle Vale for the irrigators up there, so that they could stop accessing the groundwater. This is treated re-cycled water which would otherwise have gone into the gulf. According to the Advertiser, State Govt has stalled for 18 months on this project, but have they? Federal Govt reached an agreement with Angle Vale irrigators, but was an environmental study done into the effects of this? (I don't know). Should such a project go ahead without one? How can the Fed Govt come to an agreement with local irrigators without having the state govt in agreement too, considering state govt is supposed to be putting up the other half of the cost?

I hope this project goes ahead, as the treated water should definately be used, rather than get pumped into the gulf.

Comments?

MICHAEL OWEN, POLITICAL REPORTER
July 28, 2007 12:00am

A STALLED water-saving project for South Australia will proceed after the Federal Government reached an agreement with northern Adelaide irrigators.

Federal Water Resources Minister Malcolm Turnbull last night said he had written to state Water Security Minister Karlene Maywald to seek co-operation in getting the major project off the ground.

The $4.07 million Virginia Pipeline Scheme Extension was announced by Prime Minister John Howard in October, 2005.

It was taken up as an Advertiser Watch in May as it remained stalled 18 months after $2.035 million federal funding was approved.

"I have written to Minister Maywald seeking her co-operation," Mr Turnbull said last night.

"I call on the South Australian Government to accept the agreements that have been reached between the Australian Government and the Angle Vale irrigators and to fast-track the Government's approval of the project."

Under the plan to build an 18km extension to the Bolivar-to-Virginia pipeline, an extra 3000 megalitres of treated wastewater would be pumped to Angle Vale's horticultural area every year.

The treated effluent, diverted for use by irrigators in the north of Adelaide, otherwise would go out to sea.

The major sticking point has been issues over groundwater management.

Mr Turnbull last night said it was "unfortunate" the State Government had been unable to meet commitments made in its original proposal, stalling the project.

In an effort to "get the project moving again", Mr Turnbull met irrigators from the Angle Vale area last month.

"We agreed to a package of measures to help recovery of the overdrawn groundwater resources in the Angle Vale area, and to provide recycled water for irrigators so there is no loss of production," he said.

Ms Maywald yesterday said she was pleased with the progress. "We'll await the details of the final agreement to be forwarded from the Commonwealth," she said.

[Bulldozer]

Environmental investigation? Into what - how it's going to benefit the watertable and the gulf? This needs to be held up as yet another example of Maywald and Rann's incompetence!

[rhino]

Environmental investigation? Into what

Wasn't it you who said, here: http://www.sensational-adelaide.com/for ... a&start=15

Greywater was banned for a reason - it's a health hazard.

[rhino]

I heard Malcolm Campbell on the radio again this morning, re-iterrating that domestic use is 9% of water coming out of the Murray, and leakage from the reticulated system is estimated by professionals to be between 11-15%. Thames Water (parent company of SAWater) has been fined 280,000,000 pounds in London for allowing water to be wasted by not maintaining infrastructure. They should be fined here too, and made to do the maintenance.

We're looking at no outside water use by the end of this month. That brings with it a lot of problems for the whole community, not just gardeners. Houses built 30 years ago or earlier are generally built with strip footings, rather than a concrete raft floor. Stop watering the surrounding garden, and the reactive clay soils will shrink, houses will be cracking all over the place, insurance claims will go in, insurance premiums will go up, and SAWater will still not be stopping the leakage from the system.

The number of approvals for sinking bores has gone up almost 3-fold in the last two years, and now it is being reported that the water table is dropping. DERR!!! What did you expect? Well, I guess someone's rubbing their hands together over the licensing stamp duties coming in, without thinking about the effect.

[Bulldozer]

10% leakage? If I recall correctly, the Waterproofing Adelaide report said leakage was only a couple of percent and amongst the lowest in the world. Anyway, how are SA Water meant to adequately maintain infrastructure when the government is skimming hundreds of millions of dollars from it?

It won't just be foundations cracking, it'll be water and sewer pipes as well! Many kilometres of pipes around Adelaide are very old and prone to bursting - where I lived in Adelaide the pipes are around a century old, or so SA Water told us.

I remember about ten or so years ago the mains burst down the road from our place and it took a couple of attempts at fixing it before it worked - the pipe is so old and brittle that it's very hard to use modern materials and techniques to fix it. The pipes also caused issues for the nursery for a couple of years when SA Water replaced all the water meters with new models - the nursery's was constantly breaking and jamming because bits of corroded pipe were getting caught up in it. Went through about four meters before the problem was fixed (don't know what was wrong with the old one!) and there's also been a significant drop in pressure over the years that necessitated changes to the irrigation setup to maintain adequate flow rates. I can't remember exactly why that's happened, but I remember a technician that came out to replace the meter said it was bean counters or something.

[rhino]

Apparently SAWater say that the leakage is about 5%, but according to the age of the infrastructure and the amount of maintenance done (or not done) on it in that time, and Adelaide's reactive clay soils doing their bit to (not) help, the water boffins say it's closer to 11-15%.

[Bulldozer]

Wasn't it you who said, here: http://www.sensational-adelaide.com/for ... a&start=15

Greywater was banned for a reason - it's a health hazard.

Yes I did, but treated water from a sewage plant is not greywater. This is the same water that is piped into the purple mains around Mawson Lakes. (I presume they've finally hooked it up.)

The problem with greywater is that it is full of chemicals (like salts) from things like soaps and detergents. These chemicals build up in the soil in your garden, and it's a particular problem in Adelaide due to the clay-heavy soils that don't drain well.

A similar issue occurs where microirrigation is used in vineyards and orchards - as fertiliser is applied during the growing season there is a buildup of salts in the soil as growers use only enough water to ensure optimal growth and don't want to flush expensive fertiliser away. (Yes, too much water can be just as bad as not enough and this is why people who call growers in the Riverland wasteful and greedy really piss me off!) At the end of the growing season you give everything a good soaking to flush the salts away - which works because these plants are grown on well-draining ground.

[rhino]

I agree with what you're saying. At home I use treated grey water in my garden, treated in a Biocycle system. I expect that when used on a commercial scale, however, it's not necessarily the case that "it's OK at home, it should be OK here". A bit like having an aquarium at home vs owning a barramundi farm in the Adelaide Hills (yes, there is one).

What concerns me more, however, is the Fed Govt going to an area where they have support anyway, offering to pay for half the cost of something, getting agreement from their constituents (well, why wouldn't they?) and then blaming the state govt for not dropping another project and supporting the one they're pushing by coughing up the other half of the funds. For Pete's sake, they've got a $17billion windfall, why can't they throw in the other $2million and call it a federally funded project?

[Bulldozer]

I thought the growers consortium that owns the existing pipeline was going to contribute the other half of the funds and that it was only waiting for the state government to approve the project?

The pipeline already exists and is being used for irrigation in Virginia, so I don't see why any studies need to be done.

There's also another pipeline down south from the Christies Beach sewage plant to McLaren Vale, (the first and biggest recycled water scheme) which the new Seaford Meadows development is plumbing into, much like Mawson Lakes has done with the Bolivar-Virginia line. The dam you see on the corner of Quarry Road and Victor Harbor Road is an intermediate storage dam for that pipeline. (I think it's got a capacity of 6 megalitres.) It was a consortium of vignerons that paid for, operate and own it.