News & Discussion: Trams

[citywatcher]

Been doing those footpaths for months !

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[Tonsley213]

Any news on the opening?

[PD2/20]

Any news on the opening?

See message from DPTI project team on Friday afternoon that was posted here that evening https://www.sensational-adelaide.com/fo ... 94#p170594.

[Waewick]

I think a drink at the botanic bar then the queens head on opening night sounds like a plan.

[Haso]

Major government contractor York Civil ceases trading

Construction and engineering company York Civil has ceased trading, leaving up to 188 employees out of work.
The company told employees and contractors on Monday morning. A creditors meeting will be held on Thursday.
In a statement, the company's administrator Ferrier Hodgson said the decision to cease the company's operations had been made because of insufficient cash resources and the inability to find a buyer for the company. The Adelaide-based business is currently working on major construction projects around Australia, including the Perth Stadium footbridge in Western Australia, the $800 million Torrens to Torrens road upgrade, North Terrace tram extension and Main South Road upgrade in South Australia, and the Pacific Highway in NSW.
Ferrier Hodgson partner Martin Lewis said it was expected that any shortfall in paying employee entitlements would be met through the Federal Government's Fair Entitlements Guarantee Scheme.
"We expect any shortfall of employee entitlements will be met through the Fair Entitlements Guarantee Scheme — should the company be placed into liquidation at the second meeting of creditors — however it is too early to form a view on the likelihood of payment to unsecured creditors," he said.
"It's our understanding that any joint venture projects York Civil is a party to, will be continued by the remaining joint venture partners.
"Arrangements have been made with the respective joint venture partners for a continuation of works on the North Terrace tram extension, Torrens to Torrens upgrade and Swan River pedestrian bridge."
The company was founded in 1990 by Ian Tarbotton, who was still the managing director of the company until the appointment of Mr Lewis as administrator.
York Civil has grown from its South Australian base to have offices in Perth, Brisbane and Sydney.

Source http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-08-13/c ... g/10113748

[Waewick]

Adelaide City Council in push to extend tram network to North Adelaide

EXTENDING Adelaide’s tram network to North Adelaide is set to be hotly pursued by the city council for the next two years.

The city council will on Tuesday night vote on whether to accept a new City of Adelaide Visitor Economy Action Plan for 2018-2020.

The council’s tourism plan is being updated to coincide with a change of State Government, and shift the council’s priorities if they no longer suit the political landscape.

The current tram extension along North Tce has been plagued by problems under two separate governments, and the Liberals ruled out trams to Norwood, Unley and the Adelaide Airport during the state election.

Labor promised a $259m tram extension to North Adelaide during the election.
An artist impression of the tram going down O’Connell Street in North Adelaide.

However, the new plan says the council plans “action” on an extension of the tram service into North Adelaide.

As part of the North Tce extension, a stop at the Festival Centre for gameday at Adelaide Oval has also been built but that is as far north as the line goes.

University of Adelaide senior lecturer Dr Jennifer Bonham, who specialises in sustainable transport and mobility, said a council push for a North Adelaide tram extension was a sensible idea.

“To service our city properly, we really need high-quality transport,” she said.

“Having a tram extension out there to North Adelaide makes absolute sense,” she said. “It’s quite a congested area, but the beauty of a tram is that it doesn’t get caught in congestion like our buses can in Adelaide.”

The idea of a tram line has been a controversial one in the North Adelaide community, over fears the area’s streets just aren’t big enough to cater for both cars and a tram line.

North Ward Councillor Phil Martin said he believed extending the tram line to North Adelaide would have many benefits.

“It would provide great connections both ways for residents, businesses and visitors,” he said.

“It would bring more people to the area and really help businesses.

“But if it goes through O’Connell St, there will need to be a rethink of how traffic movement occurs through there and what parking is available.

“That would be something the council would have to work with the State Government and the Department (of Planning and Transport) on.”

The State Government has said a North Adelaide spur and city loops would be considered by an independent expert body to see if they stack up.

In May, Transport Minister Stephan Knoll said expanding the city tram line to Adelaide Oval was a “no-brainer” and an expansion to North Adelaide was still on the agenda.

An “Adelaide Card” is also part of the action plan, which would give visitors incentives to explore tourist attractions.

https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/messenge ... dcba25c563

[rubberman]

Adelaide City Council in push to extend tram network to North Adelaide

EXTENDING Adelaide’s tram network to North Adelaide is set to be hotly pursued by the city council for the next two years.

The city council will on Tuesday night vote on whether to accept a new City of Adelaide Visitor Economy Action Plan for 2018-2020.

The council’s tourism plan is being updated to coincide with a change of State Government, and shift the council’s priorities if they no longer suit the political landscape.

The current tram extension along North Tce has been plagued by problems under two separate governments, and the Liberals ruled out trams to Norwood, Unley and the Adelaide Airport during the state election.

Labor promised a $259m tram extension to North Adelaide during the election.
An artist impression of the tram going down O’Connell Street in North Adelaide.

However, the new plan says the council plans “action” on an extension of the tram service into North Adelaide.

As part of the North Tce extension, a stop at the Festival Centre for gameday at Adelaide Oval has also been built but that is as far north as the line goes.

University of Adelaide senior lecturer Dr Jennifer Bonham, who specialises in sustainable transport and mobility, said a council push for a North Adelaide tram extension was a sensible idea.

“To service our city properly, we really need high-quality transport,” she said.

“Having a tram extension out there to North Adelaide makes absolute sense,” she said. “It’s quite a congested area, but the beauty of a tram is that it doesn’t get caught in congestion like our buses can in Adelaide.”

The idea of a tram line has been a controversial one in the North Adelaide community, over fears the area’s streets just aren’t big enough to cater for both cars and a tram line.

North Ward Councillor Phil Martin said he believed extending the tram line to North Adelaide would have many benefits.

“It would provide great connections both ways for residents, businesses and visitors,” he said.

“It would bring more people to the area and really help businesses.

“But if it goes through O’Connell St, there will need to be a rethink of how traffic movement occurs through there and what parking is available.

“That would be something the council would have to work with the State Government and the Department (of Planning and Transport) on.”

The State Government has said a North Adelaide spur and city loops would be considered by an independent expert body to see if they stack up.

In May, Transport Minister Stephan Knoll said expanding the city tram line to Adelaide Oval was a “no-brainer” and an expansion to North Adelaide was still on the agenda.

An “Adelaide Card” is also part of the action plan, which would give visitors incentives to explore tourist attractions.

https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/messenge ... dcba25c563

According to the Report of the Parliamentary Standing Committee on Public Works, the benefit to cost ratio of the North terrace extension was 0.7. That was on the basis of $65m (iirc) for 1km.

On that basis, the 2,2km extension to North Adelaide can only "stack up" if it costs $45m per km, OR some extra benefit can be found. For 2.2km to North Adelaide, that's roughly $100m.

So, two things: First, the government has categorically stated that it has to stack up to go ahead. Second, based on the official Parliamentary report, it needs to come in at less than half the cost worked out by the previous government to do that.

On the one hand, I am very confident it COULD be done. On the other, I am not confident in the ability of consultants to be able to deliver.

[Waewick]

I think it will be a finger in the air test in 2 years.

If it gets votes it will be done, if not, it won't.

They haven't got infrastructure SA up (and haven't shown capacity to get any of their key changes requiring cross bench support over the line) so like Labor before we will be able to get some healthy pork barrelling in marginal seats.

[adelaide transport]

We still haven't appointed a CEO of DPTI.
The new Public Transport Authority hasn't yet been set up nor a CEO appointed.(SAPTA)
Until these things happen nothing much is going to happen.

[rubberman]

I think it will be a finger in the air test in 2 years.

If it gets votes it will be done, if not, it won't.

They haven't got infrastructure SA up (and haven't shown capacity to get any of their key changes requiring cross bench support over the line) so like Labor before we will be able to get some healthy pork barrelling in marginal seats.

In one sense, a good benefit cost study informs such finger-in-air consideration in that it should include social benefits and costs. As an example, if the North Adelaide extension had a benefit to cost ratio of 0.5, say, and the Norwood extension 0.4, then those projects are sucking money away from other projects which could have gathered more votes. For example, if the North Adelaide extension had cost only $100m, then another $100m could have been available to extend it to the Prospect Town Hall. Many more votes in that, than just getting to North Adelaide.

The pity is that cheaper options might even have been better. For example, grassed open ballast track through the parklands instead of concrete. Cheaper and more appropriate by far. Some trams are cheaper and better than the Citadis.

In the end, $200m plus for a tram to North Adelaide is a much harder sell than $100m for the same plus $100m on other things. If the benefit to cost study says the same thing, it's entirely legitimate for the government to shelve tram plans.

[Waewick]

Can't argue with that. But it comes back to seeing the proposals.

I guest the key part is that things haven't been ruled out.

[Nort]

Adelaide City Council in push to extend tram network to North Adelaide

EXTENDING Adelaide’s tram network to North Adelaide is set to be hotly pursued by the city council for the next two years.

The city council will on Tuesday night vote on whether to accept a new City of Adelaide Visitor Economy Action Plan for 2018-2020.

The council’s tourism plan is being updated to coincide with a change of State Government, and shift the council’s priorities if they no longer suit the political landscape.

The current tram extension along North Tce has been plagued by problems under two separate governments, and the Liberals ruled out trams to Norwood, Unley and the Adelaide Airport during the state election.

Labor promised a $259m tram extension to North Adelaide during the election.
An artist impression of the tram going down O’Connell Street in North Adelaide.

However, the new plan says the council plans “action” on an extension of the tram service into North Adelaide.

As part of the North Tce extension, a stop at the Festival Centre for gameday at Adelaide Oval has also been built but that is as far north as the line goes.

University of Adelaide senior lecturer Dr Jennifer Bonham, who specialises in sustainable transport and mobility, said a council push for a North Adelaide tram extension was a sensible idea.

“To service our city properly, we really need high-quality transport,” she said.

“Having a tram extension out there to North Adelaide makes absolute sense,” she said. “It’s quite a congested area, but the beauty of a tram is that it doesn’t get caught in congestion like our buses can in Adelaide.”

The idea of a tram line has been a controversial one in the North Adelaide community, over fears the area’s streets just aren’t big enough to cater for both cars and a tram line.

North Ward Councillor Phil Martin said he believed extending the tram line to North Adelaide would have many benefits.

“It would provide great connections both ways for residents, businesses and visitors,” he said.

“It would bring more people to the area and really help businesses.

“But if it goes through O’Connell St, there will need to be a rethink of how traffic movement occurs through there and what parking is available.

“That would be something the council would have to work with the State Government and the Department (of Planning and Transport) on.”

The State Government has said a North Adelaide spur and city loops would be considered by an independent expert body to see if they stack up.

In May, Transport Minister Stephan Knoll said expanding the city tram line to Adelaide Oval was a “no-brainer” and an expansion to North Adelaide was still on the agenda.

An “Adelaide Card” is also part of the action plan, which would give visitors incentives to explore tourist attractions.

https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/messenge ... dcba25c563

According to the Report of the Parliamentary Standing Committee on Public Works, the benefit to cost ratio of the North terrace extension was 0.7. That was on the basis of $65m (iirc) for 1km.

On that basis, the 2,2km extension to North Adelaide can only "stack up" if it costs $45m per km, OR some extra benefit can be found. For 2.2km to North Adelaide, that's roughly $100m.

So, two things: First, the government has categorically stated that it has to stack up to go ahead. Second, based on the official Parliamentary report, it needs to come in at less than half the cost worked out by the previous government to do that.

On the one hand, I am very confident it COULD be done. On the other, I am not confident in the ability of consultants to be able to deliver.

Is that based on he North Terrace extension as a standalone piece of track? If the tram was extended down East Terrace or to a City Loop presumably it would increase the value of the North Terrace section.

Public infrastructure should be built where it is most useful in cost/benefit terms, but the North Terrace extension was always portrayed as part of a longer term vision.

[citywatcher]

We still haven't appointed a CEO of DPTI.
The new Public Transport Authority hasn't yet been set up nor a CEO appointed.(SAPTA)
Until these things happen nothing much is going to happen.

Public transport has never been high on their list. The way this project has been handled since March and the fact that no new head of dept has been appointed when other departments have had their new heads in place would seem to suggest this but it isn't something we didn't already know was coming.
You can't blame the previous gov't for everything forever

Sent from my SM-J730G using Tapatalk

[rubberman]

https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/messenge ... dcba25c563

According to the Report of the Parliamentary Standing Committee on Public Works, the benefit to cost ratio of the North terrace extension was 0.7. That was on the basis of $65m (iirc) for 1km.

On that basis, the 2,2km extension to North Adelaide can only "stack up" if it costs $45m per km, OR some extra benefit can be found. For 2.2km to North Adelaide, that's roughly $100m.

So, two things: First, the government has categorically stated that it has to stack up to go ahead. Second, based on the official Parliamentary report, it needs to come in at less than half the cost worked out by the previous government to do that.

On the one hand, I am very confident it COULD be done. On the other, I am not confident in the ability of consultants to be able to deliver.

Is that based on he North Terrace extension as a standalone piece of track? If the tram was extended down East Terrace or to a City Loop presumably it would increase the value of the North Terrace section.

Public infrastructure should be built where it is most useful in cost/benefit terms, but the North Terrace extension was always portrayed as part of a longer term vision.

The Parliamentary Committee report was just for North Terrace.

I agree on the need to consider the long term vision. However, building scissors crossovers with heavy signalling is something authorities do only if that particular terminus is going to be there for a very very very long time. If there was any real intention to extend in the near future, there would have been a simple arrangement like at the Glenelg terminus. Just think, if there was a serious intention to complete a city loop, that whole terminus at the East End would need to be dug up. Either that, or again, it was another example of gold plating.

[1NEEDS2POST]

For example, grassed open ballast track through the parklands instead of concrete. Cheaper and more appropriate by far.

One unintentional benefit of the track on Port Road and North Terrace is that it can be used by ambulances to and from the RAH. Can't do that with open ballasted track.

I agree on the need to consider the long term vision. However, building scissors crossovers with heavy signalling is something authorities do only if that particular terminus is going to be there for a very very very long time. If there was any real intention to extend in the near future, there would have been a simple arrangement like at the Glenelg terminus. Just think, if there was a serious intention to complete a city loop, that whole terminus at the East End would need to be dug up. Either that, or again, it was another example of gold plating.

The points could be set straight for trams to continue beyond the Botanic Gardens stop. Why would the whole terminus have to be dug up?