News & Discussion: Trams

[rubberman]

For example, grassed open ballast track through the parklands instead of concrete. Cheaper and more appropriate by far.

One unintentional benefit of the track on Port Road and North Terrace is that it can be used by ambulances to and from the RAH. Can't do that with open ballasted track.

I agree on the need to consider the long term vision. However, building scissors crossovers with heavy signalling is something authorities do only if that particular terminus is going to be there for a very very very long time. If there was any real intention to extend in the near future, there would have been a simple arrangement like at the Glenelg terminus. Just think, if there was a serious intention to complete a city loop, that whole terminus at the East End would need to be dug up. Either that, or again, it was another example of gold plating.

The points could be set straight for trams to continue beyond the Botanic Gardens stop. Why would the whole terminus have to be dug up?

Quite true, it can take ambulances...and buses. But if the major advantage (taking buses) can't be used, the cost of open ballast would have been far less, making it much more economic. This economic issue is what can kill a project. If a government that isn't interested in trams can point to poor economics, it has a very legitimate reason to scrap extension plans. The present government has said it will only do the North Adelaide tram extension if it stacks up economically. Making it needelessly expensive is a death sentence.

As for digging the crossing up, well, if it's left there doing nothing, it's a big waste of money. The crossings and point motors and signals aren't cheap. That means that instead of recycling them for some other extension, new expensive ones will have to be bought. So, either they are left in the ground, and wasted through no use, or they are dug up to save money by reusing on an extension. Point is, why spend all that money if you were only going to use them for a couple of years? Nope, they put them in because they thought that was going to be the terminus for a very very long time. That is, they had no intention of extension of the city loop for many years. Same with North Adelaide. At $200m plus, does anyone think it will come out economic?

[Ben]

Must say I am completely shocked its mid August and still no tram services.

[how good is he]

Maybe by Christmas? On that, will the Christmas Pageant route on North Tce be affected?

[claybro]

Maybe by Christmas? On that, will the Christmas Pageant route on North Tce be affected?

?? Why would the pageant route on North Terrace be any more of a problem than the pageant route along King William Street?

[how good is he]

The floats used to go down the middle of North Tce (where tram stops are now). Also in front of DJs there was scaffolding/stands/walkway out (where Father Christmas gets off) so just wondering how it will affect it.

[rev]

The floats used to go down the middle of North Tce (where tram stops are now). Also in front of DJs there was scaffolding/stands/walkway out (where Father Christmas gets off) so just wondering how it will affect it.

They'll make adjustments.

I wish they would have(Labor), or would announce(Liberal) the complete plan for tram extensions, into the suburbs, I mean a full blown network, and announce stages, when they will commence etc, and just get on with it. Stopping it at the Festival Theater and not at Adelaide Oval and the WCH was a big mistake imo. There's no guarantee that the new government will continue the extensions.

[rubberman]

The floats used to go down the middle of North Tce (where tram stops are now). Also in front of DJs there was scaffolding/stands/walkway out (where Father Christmas gets off) so just wondering how it will affect it.

They'll make adjustments.

I wish they would have(Labor), or would announce(Liberal) the complete plan for tram extensions, into the suburbs, I mean a full blown network, and announce stages, when they will commence etc, and just get on with it. Stopping it at the Festival Theater and not at Adelaide Oval and the WCH was a big mistake imo. There's no guarantee that the new government will continue the extensions.

Ok, I am guessing here. Total shot in the dark, so just a wild surmise. I think the concept the previous government came up with was good.

However, I bet that the final costs came out so high, or the benefits so low, that there was no way the Feds would put any money into it. Without Federal money, it's doomed to short bits and pieces...around election time.

The reason I think that is that if it were even remotely economic, the previous government would have been trumpeting it big time...AND the Federal Opposition would have committed to funding it "if they got into government". The fact that the State ALP didn't release the business case, and the Federal ALP won't touch it, says it's a dog by my guess. Emphasis on "guess". However, I can't think of any other reason why the previous government didn't release the business case.

I suggest it's also why the Libs are using language like "North Adelaide tram extension will go ahead if the business case stacks up." They know what the answer will be, and given the inflated price quoted, have more pressing things to do with that money. $200m would buy a lot of solar installations, for example, or bike ways.

[The Scooter Guy]

Maybe by Christmas? On that, will the Christmas Pageant route on North Tce be affected?

Even by today's politics, 2018 still seems 'Too Good To Be True'.

[Nathan]

I can say on good authority that the tram line is indeed giving many headaches to the pageant organisers.

[crawf]

The floats used to go down the middle of North Tce (where tram stops are now). Also in front of DJs there was scaffolding/stands/walkway out (where Father Christmas gets off) so just wondering how it will affect it.

They'll make adjustments.

I wish they would have(Labor), or would announce(Liberal) the complete plan for tram extensions, into the suburbs, I mean a full blown network, and announce stages, when they will commence etc, and just get on with it. Stopping it at the Festival Theater and not at Adelaide Oval and the WCH was a big mistake imo. There's no guarantee that the new government will continue the extensions.

Agreed.

Lately I've seen a test tram to do the rounds along eastern North Terrace and towards Festival Plaza, so surely daily services can't be too far away?...Surely

[I Follow PAFC]

SUBSCRIBER ONLY
Airport-city tram link a ’must-do’
NEW RAIL A PROPOSED $500 million light-rail line linking Adelaide Airport to the city has been branded a “must-do” project to kickstart tourism and construction, while awakening the state from a “sleepy-hollow mindset”.

https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/sou ... 66b67c28ad

[Goodsy]

SUBSCRIBER ONLY
Airport-city tram link a ’must-do’
NEW RAIL A PROPOSED $500 million light-rail line linking Adelaide Airport to the city has been branded a “must-do” project to kickstart tourism and construction, while awakening the state from a “sleepy-hollow mindset”.

https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/sou ... 66b67c28ad

Adelaide Airport tram link branded a must-do project by Civil Contractors Federation
Paul Starick, Chief Reporter, Sunday Mail (SA)
August 18, 2018 2:05pm
Subscriber only


A proposed $500 million light-rail line linking Adelaide Airport to the city has been branded a “must-do” project to kickstart tourism and construction, while awakening the state from a “sleepy-hollow mindset”.

The Civil Contractors Federation, which has 600 members employing 20,000 South Australians, is mounting a renewed push to win support for the privately funded project, proposed last December by one of Australia’s largest companies.

The builder of Adelaide’s East End tram extension, the Downer group, lodged an unsolicited bid with the former Labor government to build, fund and operate the route, arguing a dedicated airport light-rail service would boost tourism by better connecting travellers to the city, and enhance suburban public transport.


The airport link would use a battery-powered tram, like this one in Dubai.

But Labor did not proceed with the proposal, despite Adelaide Airport declaring it was “supportive of an affordable light-rail service between the airport and Adelaide’s CBD”.

It is understood Downer remains keen to discuss the proposal with the Liberal Government, although Treasurer Rob Lucas has scotched the prospect of any funding support in next month’s State Budget.

Civil Contractors Federation SA chief executive officer Phil Sutherland said the Budget needed to fire up private sector interest regardless of the construction giant’s continued interest.

“This should particularly be among Australia’s major super funds which understand the value of backing long-term (30 years), commercially viable infrastructure operations and investments in projects such as light rail, toll-based highways and airport ownership,” he said.

Mr Sutherland cited Transport Minister Stephan Knoll’s encouraging comments last month, when he vowed nothing was off the table as work begins on bringing SA’s public transport service into the 21st century.

He said the proposed 6km line airport line, connecting North Tce, West Tce, Henley Beach Rd and Airport Rd, would be noteworthy for battery-powered trams, which do not need poles and wires.


Civil Contractors Federation SA chief executive officer Phil Sutherland.

“Any private sector proposal for the construction, funding and operating of such a logical piece of transport infrastructure, should be prioritised for consideration.

“With the completion of the new hotel at the airport and plans for the major expansion of the airport precinct, the time is now right for a modern battery powered tram link to the city.

“These battery powered trams are available now, and recharge while at stations and through excess energy on their grid — negating any need for the poles and wires of our existing tram network.”

Mr Lucas said the airport light rail link was not a Liberal promise and would not be addressed in next month’s Budget.

“Our September budget will concentrate on cleaning up Labor’s mess and keeping our promises,” he said.

“There will be a significant infrastructure program and, over coming budgets, we will also need to fund our share of the billions required for the remaining sections of the South Road project.

“Projects like this one, and others, will need to be considered over the medium to longer term as budgetary circumstances permit.”

[citywatcher]

The hold up would appear to be political now

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[Goodsy]

The hold up would appear to be political now

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hopefully it's held up to the point of dying. There shouldn't be two separate tram systems that are incompatible with each other

[rubberman]

This just shows the total ineptitude and inexperience of the reporter.

The proposal was a nice little gouge at taxpayers' expense.

They build the line for some inflated price. The government then gives them a guaranteed return on their money. Bet the government guaranteed return is many many times the government bond rate. Then, the government effectively gives them two lanes of roadway, free of charge, for a limited stop service to the city. Of course, once they have this two lanes, could we ever build a line to Henley Beach without running over "their" line and paying them "rent"?

If we want a line to the airport, how about we build it ourselves for a lower cost, on which we pay only government bond rate interest, and on which we can then run trams to Henley Beach in the future.

If we fall for this con job, we are suckers. However, if it comes up, I certainly would invest. For an investor, this would be a gold mine.