claybro wrote: ↑Tue Oct 02, 2018 4:34 pm
rubberman wrote: ↑Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:59 pm
rev wrote: ↑Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:46 pm
Have they started the build in Parramatta yet? Stage One is just over 12km in length...compare that to our pitiful little extensions every now and then.
How long have many of us on here been saying they should have just bit the bullet and done massive extensions? Now we have the Liberals in government, which was inevitable after so long of Labor being in government...and now any likelihood of further extensions are basically zilch. Although some on here will still kid them selves that Marshall and Lucas will do more extensions.
Those other states have more money. SA lost about $4.5bn in the State Bank disaster, and about $2bn so far from the privatisation of ETSA...and that is ongoing.
That $6.5bn, so far, would have funded a modest tram system, suburban and regional road upgrades and a city loop. The whole point of loss is that you simply can't plough on and spend as if it doesn't exist. Other states can do the things they have, because they didn't blow the money.
It would not have been necessary to fund the whole system upfront. It has taken about what, 18 months for each extension? If the former government had kept funds rolling at about 50 million per year (not an insurmountable sum in the scheme of things) and followed on the Hindmarsh extension immediately after North Terrace West, then commenced immediately the East end extension, and had already commenced the Section to Adelaide Oval/ North Adelaide, etc then the momentum and expertise would have been maintained (or accelerated), and costs most probably reduced due to the increased scale. Federal funding would also have been more likely as is evident from the other states whos rail projects have also received Federal funding even when not strictly economically stacking up.
Not disagreeing particularly. I mean, after all, that's the way they've been upgrading South Road until seven or eight years ago. However, if you have the money, doing the whole system in one series of big contracts is far cheaper. As an example, extension to Adelaide Oval, or extension along Colley Terrace would require an extra tram. If that's all that's being done, how do you choose the best tram? It may be that Bombardier might build an extra for SA. But don't bet on it. It may be we could get more Citadis, but that's simply a very uneconomic proposition, considering the damage they do. However, if we were ordering fifty new trams, then we'd have Stadler, Škoda, Pesa, Bombardier competing, AND with a good chance that a lot of the work could be done in SA.
However, I do agree with you for the short term. I am on record as supporting the Shuz Plan, which is what you suggest, but with lots more detail. However, the idea of doing short extensions is to build up local expertise. That means getting people in from Melbourne, and overseas, and trying different track laying techniques, and critically looking at existing standards. For example, use of combined bus and tram stops is common in cities in Europe, but not in Melbourne. That's huge. Many cities have grass track like Victoria Square, but with much cheaper construction techniques. Doing short extensions for a few years using different techniques makes sense in the sorely needed planning and capability building phase, but once that's past, economies of scale take over.
