COM: Glenelg Tramline Upgrade

[PhilH]

Another thing, Froggy - don't assume that everyone is young enough and/or fit enough to walk to work from the Railway Station (or wherever) in 5 minutes, because they're not! If you opened your eyes a bit, you would see that there are people around who would find the walk uphill from the station to the KWS/NT intersection difficult. I'm only just the wrong side of 50, and I think fairly fit, but getting from the station to the Pirie/Waymouth stop (near my work) in 5 minutes would be a superhuman effort on my part, so there's a very good chance that I'll be using the extension when it opens. (Even people who could do the walk in 5 minutes might find it hard going in 40+ heat or with wind and rain blowing around, so they could benefit too).

[Froggy]

The main section of the poles is roughly the same diametre of the original flag poles and are roughly the same height. The colour has also been replicated even to try and minimise the visual impact. In Melbourne, they usually have nothing but a galvanised steel poll put up so we have come off very well. It doesn't take much of an imagination to see what difference that would make compared to what we have now.

Who cares if they tried to minimise the visual impact, they are extremely ugly, Melbourne is ugly.

Have you ever seen the Beeline? It travels exactly the same route as the tram. There are several passenger flows and even on weekends, it does get tight for passengers. First is the flow from the Railway Station to Rundle Mall. Second is the flow from the Railway Station to Victoria Square to connect with the tram to Glenelg. The third main flow is from Victoria Square to Rundle Mall. Fourth is the flow from Victoria Square to the Railway Station. Finally, there is a smaller amount of traffic to City West.

On a Railway Station to Victoria Square run, roughly half of the riders will disembark at Rundle Mall with the other half staying on board. After the riders getting off have cleared away, an almost equal (and sometimes greater) flow will board the bus. A few people will get off at Pirie Street but most stay to Victoria Square and the tram. A similar story applies for the return trip to the Railway Station. Half will get off at Rundle Mall with the rest staying on to the Railway Station. A few people do stay on to City West for the Uni and the Skate Park.

As you can probably see from my photo reports, I have spent a HUGE amount of time on the ground and have seen these things first hand over and over again. Finally, your ignorance is going to eventually get the better of you. The fare for the tram from City West to Victoria Square AND South Terrace (and extension of the Beeline service) will be free. All the press from The Advertiser, Chs 7, 9 and 10, the DTIE, TransAdelaide, AdelaideMetro AND a few TransAdelaide employees have stated that the service will be free.-

Typical talking up the amount of passengers, I know the Beeline bus can get busy but only every now and then, certainly not busy enough to waste 32million on a tram which goes no where.

A ban on right hand turns had already been in place during peak periods for several years previously. Think and read carefully what I write. The put a ban in place during the busiest possible time in the City and everything worked without much of a hassle. They have extended it to include NON PEAK and NIGHT[/b] when there is hardly a car on the road.

Those turns got used a shitload throughout the day in non peak, it is causing issues and diverting traffic to other roads causing them to get congested.

As I have already said, I have been on the ground many, many, many times at various times during the week. Both before major track laying began (and all other changes associated with it) and afterwards. Traffic does still flow fairly smoothly through King William Street and North Terrace. From the eastern side of Morphett Street Bridge, you get an excellent view down North Terrace towards King William Street. The only major set of traffic lights currently is the set across the road from the railway station. The maximum that you would see is about 7 cars per lane. 14 cars. Compared to say Sydney where there is usually something like 25-35 over two lanes (and before you ask, I was in Syndey during January), Adelaide is let off very easily.

Adelaide traffic in peak hour is nearly on par with Melbournes these days and for a city of our size that is ridiculous. So when I am waiting in banked up traffic in the morning all the way back to West Tce when I never was before this 'upgrade' do you have your eyes shut from this great view from the bridge?

[Froggy]

The point of the extension is not just to take people 200m down the road but to deliver those who catch the tram 200m (or 1.5km to city west) closer to their destination. By reducing the walk at the start or end of the trip you speed up the entire journey by between 3 and 15 minutes thus making public transport a much more attractive option. The RAA kicked up a fuss because the scramble crossings were likely to add 20 seconds to journeys down KWS.

So by reducing the walking it saves time, that makes sense EXCEPT by the time you have spent waiting for the tram to come you'll end up witha 15 minute trip still so consider your point irrelevant.

[Froggy]

yah!! froggy's back!!!

it costs 30 mill for a tram to do something Busses could do for FA cost.
the tramline extension is a joke.

Yay finally someone else on here who finished high school!

[Froggy]

On top of all, that has been discussed on this topic, the tram adds vibrancy and character to the city which is a good thing. There are more pro's than con's in having this extention I can go on for ever with its benefits. However the major benefit is, it's future potential to go down the middle of Port Road, stop at West lakes (AAIMI stadium), then to Semaphore and then Port Adelaide. That's quite a significant journey from Glenelg. From a tourism point of view this will add to the agenda of "What to do in Adelaide". From a Public transport point of view it will service many areas. As for Port Road it will be the beginings of it's beautification. That road has sooo much potential to be landscaped and modernized. Lets get creative, use some imagination, maybe have a restaraunt in one carriage who knows, but lets not condem it. Its all part of our progress. What are we scared of. Why does it make some people angry. I don't want to hear it's a waste of money because so is buying a new car, so why can't this city spoil itself too. In the long run it may even benefit our economy.

Bye for now

You have got to be kidding me extending it down Port Road and AAMi stadium etc. Do you realise how far they are from town? How LONG it would take to get there let alone how you would work around all the crossover points on Port road. The train already services this direction and the TRAIN should be extended to AAMI stadium (that bus 'express' is dumber than this tram extension). There's not a hope in hell (although rail lovers like yourself would like to see it go there) that this will EVER happen again.

[Froggy]

Why not have both. They are two different routes, If i were a tourist i'ld opt for the most scenic, eg through the city and the sea side. It may be a good investment rather than a waste of money if it generates popularity.Take a chance.

I have a feeling you don't get out to the Western suburbs much... :wank:

[Froggy]

Guys, the tramline corridor between Greenhill Road and Jetty Rd is a major, important stretch of land that would be worth millions, so to Froggy, why not allow it to reach its best potential. You can NOT have an important transport corridor end on the fringe on the CBD. Its needs to go through it. The extension will take 90% of users closer to their destination, making it far more attractive for more people to use. Any transport planner with half a brain knows this. I could go on and on but this issue has been argued to death about 20 pages back.

It doesn't they still have to get off the first tram then wait to get on the second in which time they could of probably walked to their destination.

[Froggy]

If you're trying to drive though the CBD, you deserve to be stuck in traffic.

That is the dumbest thing I have heard, I wouldn't be by any chance driving to my CAR PARK! :wank:

[Froggy]

How exactly is this tramline to no where going to increase public patronage to work? It's simply not, that's an argument from rail lovers. It really doesn't change how anyone gets into work, you are not going to suddenly stop driving and start catching the train in because you can now get out and wait 5 minutes for a tram to come and take you the extra 200 metres up king william st to work (when you could of walked there and back and back again in that time). I still fail to see how this tram extension is going to reduce traffic and increase patronage?

If Uni SA, The Convention Centre, The Casino, The Railway Statetion, The Embassy, Horizon, Hyatt, Playford, Grosvenor Hotels, Rundle Mall and King William Street are 'no where' then could you not say that the whole city is 'no where'. Plus I feel sorry for the students at UNI SA who study at 'no where'. :wank:

So the uni student who catches the train may as well still walk as the tram doesn't even take them to the uni and the stop is about 100 metres from the train station. If you wait 5 minutes for the tram to come you could of walked all the way to uni by then! lol.

[Froggy]

Another thing, Froggy - don't assume that everyone is young enough and/or fit enough to walk to work from the Railway Station (or wherever) in 5 minutes, because they're not! If you opened your eyes a bit, you would see that there are people around who would find the walk uphill from the station to the KWS/NT intersection difficult. I'm only just the wrong side of 50, and I think fairly fit, but getting from the station to the Pirie/Waymouth stop (near my work) in 5 minutes would be a superhuman effort on my part, so there's a very good chance that I'll be using the extension when it opens. (Even people who could do the walk in 5 minutes might find it hard going in 40+ heat or with wind and rain blowing around, so they could benefit too).

It's much easier and quicker to use the trainstation underpass and then catch the lifts up to hindley and be 50 metres from rundle mall.

[bmw boy]

The point of the extension is not just to take people 200m down the road but to deliver those who catch the tram 200m (or 1.5km to city west) closer to their destination. By reducing the walk at the start or end of the trip you speed up the entire journey by between 3 and 15 minutes thus making public transport a much more attractive option. The RAA kicked up a fuss because the scramble crossings were likely to add 20 seconds to journeys down KWS.

So by reducing the walking it saves time, that makes sense EXCEPT by the time you have spent waiting for the tram to come you'll end up witha 15 minute trip still so consider your point irrelevant.

Would you rather walk '15 mins' in heavy rain / extreme heat? or catch a tram to your destination in '15 mins'?

yah!! froggy's back!!!

also think about future extensions which are possible... north adelaide, the parade, airport just to name a few.

it costs 30 mill for a tram to do something Busses could do for FA cost.
the tramline extension is a joke.

Yay finally someone else on here who finished high school!

yes, but i dunno about you... but have you noticed how unreliable time wise these beelines are??? How packed they get???
- sometimes you are waiting 15 minutes for one... no Exaggeration ... when 3 symaltaniously pull up to you... and you have a selection of 3 to choose from...
- also they will be running for alot longer... earlier and later... better weekend service etc

[Mants]

froggy, i think it's about time to build a bridge and get over it, the tramline is there now, whether you like it or not.

why dont you put your energies into complaining about something worthwhile such as the ailing train system?

the tram is aesthetically pleasing and should not be viewed as a single project, rather the first stage in a series of extensions into the suburbs. our family often have interstate guests and they have all made positive comments regarding the tramline extension. The scramble/scatter crossings will also help to improve pedestrian movement across the city.

if you complain about having to deal with trams along king william street, how on earth would you manage driving around melbourne?!

[Norman]

Adelaide traffic in peak hour is nearly on par with Melbournes these days and for a city of our size that is ridiculous. So when I am waiting in banked up traffic in the morning all the way back to West Tce when I never was before this 'upgrade' do you have your eyes shut from this great view from the bridge?

If you don't like being in traffic, catch a bloody tram, train or bus!

The point of the extension is not just to take people 200m down the road but to deliver those who catch the tram 200m (or 1.5km to city west) closer to their destination. By reducing the walk at the start or end of the trip you speed up the entire journey by between 3 and 15 minutes thus making public transport a much more attractive option. The RAA kicked up a fuss because the scramble crossings were likely to add 20 seconds to journeys down KWS.

So by reducing the walking it saves time, that makes sense EXCEPT by the time you have spent waiting for the tram to come you'll end up witha 15 minute trip still so consider your point irrelevant.

Firstly, a tram comes every 7 minutes, and the trip takes no more than 5 minutes, so the most extreme time amount is 12 minutes. Go back and do your maths!

On top of all, that has been discussed on this topic, the tram adds vibrancy and character to the city which is a good thing. There are more pro's than con's in having this extention I can go on for ever with its benefits. However the major benefit is, it's future potential to go down the middle of Port Road, stop at West lakes (AAIMI stadium), then to Semaphore and then Port Adelaide. That's quite a significant journey from Glenelg. From a tourism point of view this will add to the agenda of "What to do in Adelaide". From a Public transport point of view it will service many areas. As for Port Road it will be the beginings of it's beautification. That road has sooo much potential to be landscaped and modernized. Lets get creative, use some imagination, maybe have a restaraunt in one carriage who knows, but lets not condem it. Its all part of our progress. What are we scared of. Why does it make some people angry. I don't want to hear it's a waste of money because so is buying a new car, so why can't this city spoil itself too. In the long run it may even benefit our economy.

Bye for now

You have got to be kidding me extending it down Port Road and AAMi stadium etc. Do you realise how far they are from town? How LONG it would take to get there let alone how you would work around all the crossover points on Port road. The train already services this direction and the TRAIN should be extended to AAMI stadium (that bus 'express' is dumber than this tram extension). There's not a hope in hell (although rail lovers like yourself would like to see it go there) that this will EVER happen again.

Um... the trams have priority, so they DON'T have to wait for a green light or whatever.

Another thing, Froggy - don't assume that everyone is young enough and/or fit enough to walk to work from the Railway Station (or wherever) in 5 minutes, because they're not! If you opened your eyes a bit, you would see that there are people around who would find the walk uphill from the station to the KWS/NT intersection difficult. I'm only just the wrong side of 50, and I think fairly fit, but getting from the station to the Pirie/Waymouth stop (near my work) in 5 minutes would be a superhuman effort on my part, so there's a very good chance that I'll be using the extension when it opens. (Even people who could do the walk in 5 minutes might find it hard going in 40+ heat or with wind and rain blowing around, so they could benefit too).

It's much easier and quicker to use the trainstation underpass and then catch the lifts up to hindley and be 50 metres from rundle mall.

He said Pirie Street, not Rundle Mall. Plus you still need to walk up the hill to KWS, which is quite a task for an older person. And if you go through the arcade (which, when full, will make going through even slower) it is still a fair walk to Hindly Street. Believe me, even walking fast it takes 10 minutes+ to walk from the Train Station to Rundle Mall. I know this because I walked down this passageway for 3 years. Your research? Pfft.

yah!! froggy's back!!!

it costs 30 mill for a tram to do something Busses could do for FA cost.
the tramline extension is a joke.

Yay finally someone else on here who finished high school!

Looks like you need to go back there and actually pass it...

[Cruise]

On top of all, that has been discussed on this topic, the tram adds vibrancy and character to the city which is a good thing. There are more pro's than con's in having this extention I can go on for ever with its benefits. However the major benefit is, it's future potential to go down the middle of Port Road, stop at West lakes (AAIMI stadium), then to Semaphore and then Port Adelaide. That's quite a significant journey from Glenelg. From a tourism point of view this will add to the agenda of "What to do in Adelaide". From a Public transport point of view it will service many areas. As for Port Road it will be the beginings of it's beautification. That road has sooo much potential to be landscaped and modernized. Lets get creative, use some imagination, maybe have a restaraunt in one carriage who knows, but lets not condem it. Its all part of our progress. What are we scared of. Why does it make some people angry. I don't want to hear it's a waste of money because so is buying a new car, so why can't this city spoil itself too. In the long run it may even benefit our economy.

Bye for now

sorry im confused why would you have heavy rail going to outer harbour and have light rail to port adelaide?

why double up? it would a waste of money.

a better way would be to run trams down the train embankment to port adelaide as well as the trains with the 3 rail setup im sure one of our rail fan members know what im tryin to say.

Who's that?

What I would do is build the tram down Port Road, but keep the train line going down the current corridor, albeit with less stops that are more accessible though, or even extress.

Busses already service port road, it would now be wise to now spend money on our ailing train system.

[Cruise]

yah!! froggy's back!!!

also think about future extensions which are possible... north adelaide, the parade, airport just to name a few.

it costs 30 mill for a tram to do something Busses could do for FA cost.
the tramline extension is a joke.

when did i say that?