COM: Glenelg Tramline Upgrade

[Froggy]

A few points.

If the one tram is going to continue from Glenelg through the city they won't be able to police free ticketing, hence why I think they'll run one tram on the extension and one to glenelg.

Huh? what are u on about. Are u suggesting that when the tram from Glenelg gets to South Terrace, they will make everyone get out, and walk 10 metres to another tram in front, which will then continue through the city. Froggy in Perth, within their train system, there are 4-5 stations around the CBD which is a 'free travel area' where u dont need a ticket within these stations. The same thing will apply here, past South Tce to Glenelg you will need a valid ticket, from South Tce to City west you don't need a ticket

On to current events with the tram line, I have word that the bend on north terrace was made too tight so it will be interesting to see if that's true or not, I was interstate when they were doing the tests but I doubt they ran the train at more than walking pace?

Where did u hear this from, a letter to the Adv editor. Contrary to popular belief, Mr Rann didnt do the design and engineering, it was done by a professional company, so there is nothing wrong with the curve. The problem is with the high curb which has almost been rectified.
Not long now Froggy, are u gettin excited

I have a lot of contacts in gov plus my bro is a huge train nut and volunteer so I hear it from him whether I like to or not. Just like they want to build the Marg on contaminated land and may not be able to.

[jk1237]

By the way, I believe the last 3 stops from Brighton Rd to Moseley Sq already operate within a free travel area, ie you dont need a valid ticket when travelling between these 3 stops. This appears to be managed OK. Froggy, I give u some points for calling for an upgrade to our train system, I agree, but projects such as the Noarlunga line extension, Football Park spur and a underground loop would cost hundreds of millions and would receive far more opposition than the tram extension, by people who would also reckon it would be a waste of money. Just imagine the backlash by some people if the Football Park spur happened, especially the ones who hate football. and finally - monorail - i dont think so

[Howie]

Froggy please don't take this personally. Guys please stop riling him up.

I really don't want to lock this thread.

[jk1237]

I hear what your saying Howie, but isnt this the whole idea of a forum whereby people submit their own opinions that may differ from others. It makes it interesting when u hear different sides of things. Everyone has been rather polite compared to the SSC forums

[Bulldozer]

Who cares if they tried to minimise the visual impact, they are extremely ugly, Melbourne is ugly.

Yet ironically for you, Melbourne is the Australian capital of style and fashion.

[Howie]

I hear what your saying Howie, but isnt this the whole idea of a forum whereby people submit their own opinions that may differ from others. It makes it interesting when u hear different sides of things. Everyone has been rather polite compared to the SSC forums

I'd like to keep it that way too.. it's just the number of complaints i've heard in regards to this thread and the number of off-topic posts I wonder if it's better to lock it or not.

[Diamond]

Who cares if they tried to minimise the visual impact, they are extremely ugly, Melbourne is ugly.

Yet ironically for you, Melbourne is the Australian capital of style and fashion.

Wasn't it also rated the world's top city not so long ago(it came equal first with Vancouver and Vienna)? ...something like that anyway

[jimmy_2486]

Well IMO any improvement to our PT system is fine by me.

I don't understand why people would complain about an improvement??

Why do so many people complain about it? id love to hear some reasons.....some people can be so selfish.

Sounds almost as dumb as someone giving away free money and people rejecting it.

[Will409]

Just an idea for the admin. Split the thread where the topic started to divert away from the main point. Create a new thread and then lock that one after a while and keep this one.

Anyway, could we please keep this on topic (and I admit being caught up in the sway away from the original point).

[rubberman]

I admit that the question of the curve on North Terrace is one that is bothering me.

The design of the track in Vic Square and the median strip in North Terrace at the corner shows that the loading gauge of the H cars was not taken into account. ie the H cars take up more room on curves than the Flexcitys. Therefore unless the designers completely changed their design philosophy on the North Terrace curves it is quite likely that the H cars will connect on the curve.

Think of it like this:

On the Vic Square curve where the middle of the tram scraped - that means the H cars overhang inwards to the curve in their middle sections more than the Flexcity cars.

On the North Terrace median where the lifeguards scraped - that means the H cars overhang outwards in their ends more than the Flexcity cars.

Put those together, and imagine when an H car goes round the inner curve on North Terrace, the end will overhang more than the Flexcity, and if an H car is going round the outer curve the middle of the car will go closer to the inner track than the Flexcity. So unless the designers took both of these into account, and left a bit of a gap - crunch. This was a problem in many tramway systems whenever streets were narrow - I think Brisbane had a blanket ban on trams passing on some curves.

Now, if that is the case, then H cars will not be able to pass on the North Terrace Curve -that would mean rather nasty traffic delays - and if cars were within four or five minutes of each other that would be a significant problem as it would be happening all the time.

If I were the project manager on this job, I would be checking with the designers to see if they had taken the extra loading gauge of the H cars into consideration. Now.

[AG]

Rubberman brings up a very valid point that has not really been considered by the engineers who have designed the curves at North Terrace. This has not been tested AFAIK, and it would be interesting to see what the minimum clearance between two passing H-sets would be. It's too late to rebuild the entire curve now though. Also, the likelihood of two H-sets turning the corner at the same time is almost zero now, as there is almost never more than one in service at any one time since most of them were retired from service.

[Froggy]

By the way, I believe the last 3 stops from Brighton Rd to Moseley Sq already operate within a free travel area, ie you dont need a valid ticket when travelling between these 3 stops. This appears to be managed OK. Froggy, I give u some points for calling for an upgrade to our train system, I agree, but projects such as the Noarlunga line extension, Football Park spur and a underground loop would cost hundreds of millions and would receive far more opposition than the tram extension, by people who would also reckon it would be a waste of money. Just imagine the backlash by some people if the Football Park spur happened, especially the ones who hate football. and finally - monorail - i dont think so

The football park spur HAD to be done but they put that damn bus in! I think we all know whether it be a tram into footy park or a train, I prefer train as I think it holds more but anyway going off topic. I know everythin else would cost hundreds of millions but if the state gov said we are gion to spend 200 million and put in a free PT loop in the city which connects O'connell st to the city (which I would oppose the tram extension if they did this...) I think it would go down a lot better because then you know they have a plan, this isn't a plan!

[Froggy]

Froggy please don't take this personally. Guys please stop riling him up.

I really don't want to lock this thread.

No I understand I don't want it locked either consider me calmed!

[Froggy]

Rubberman brings up a very valid point that has not really been considered by the engineers who have designed the curves at North Terrace. This has not been tested AFAIK, and it would be interesting to see what the minimum clearance between two passing H-sets would be. It's too late to rebuild the entire curve now though. Also, the likelihood of two H-sets turning the corner at the same time is almost zero now, as there is almost never more than one in service at any one time since most of them were retired from service.

I'd rather if there is this problem that they did just rebuild it now, fix it now while it's still in the building process to save any pain from the future, I think most people wouldn't mind if it takes a few months longer but is finished right.

[Bulldozer]

Froggy's point on fixing it up now before it's commissioned is a good one. Well, more common sense than anything! (Sadly, it's not as common as the name would have you believe.) I presume once they've fixed the end of the median strip back up they'll test it by running combinations of Flexity's and H's around the bend at increasing speed. (They'll sway a bit, right?)

I'm wondering though if it would have been worth it to spend an extra bit and lay down a 4-way crossing at that intersection like there used to be on the old tram network? It seems like it would save a lot of extra digging and stuff that's going to happen when they lay down future stages. Running it up to North Adelaide (Adelaide Oval) and East along North Terrace (Adelaide Uni, Museum, RAH, etc.) sounds to me as the smart thing to do if they want to ensure plenty of patronage.

I'm sure someone has posted a photo of what the intersection from back then somewhere on this forum.