[U/C] M2 North-South Motorway

[Bob]

NS MW construction momentum needs to continue sooner than later if we dont want this recent trend in declining engineering work to continue in SA.

[Westside]

What is all this obsession with having to build freeways everywhere to cater for autonomous single occupant vehicles? As automation becomes the norm for cars it'll also become the norm for mass transit (and is actually far more advanced already).

So unlike what happened the invention of the car, where transport costs suddenly shifted towards catering for that market and ignoring public transport, we have the opportunity now to not encourage single occupant cars and further encourage automation in public transport. At the end of the day, an autonomous vehicle is primarily still going to be a single occupant vehicle. Automate all you want but you just can't physically fit the number of vehicles on the roadway to support individual transport.

Thus we need to be smart and using the technology to improve the mass transit we have and expand to where it doesn't reach. At the end of the day even a stupid automated trackless bus has to share the road with an automated car. If you're building completely segregated bus lanes to cater for these vehicles then you've essentially built yourself a light rail network, just with a different surface. So let's stop worrying, build transport using the same principles we have now (the ideal ones not what ends up happening). We need to let automation improve upon good transport design and not rewrite the rules to suit the technology.

[aaronjameslange]

Lots of houses now cleared on the eastern side of the R2P section

[aceman]

What is all this obsession with having to build freeways everywhere to cater for autonomous single occupant vehicles? As automation becomes the norm for cars it'll also become the norm for mass transit (and is actually far more advanced already).

So unlike what happened the invention of the car, where transport costs suddenly shifted towards catering for that market and ignoring public transport, we have the opportunity now to not encourage single occupant cars and further encourage automation in public transport. At the end of the day, an autonomous vehicle is primarily still going to be a single occupant vehicle. Automate all you want but you just can't physically fit the number of vehicles on the roadway to support individual transport.

Thus we need to be smart and using the technology to improve the mass transit we have and expand to where it doesn't reach. At the end of the day even a stupid automated trackless bus has to share the road with an automated car. If you're building completely segregated bus lanes to cater for these vehicles then you've essentially built yourself a light rail network, just with a different surface. So let's stop worrying, build transport using the same principles we have now (the ideal ones not what ends up happening). We need to let automation improve upon good transport design and not rewrite the rules to suit the technology.

a city with the size and population of adelaide needs a north south non stop motorway at the very minimum. we are the only mainland capital city without one and have fallen well behind.

[Westside]

a city with the size and population of adelaide needs a north south non stop motorway at the very minimum. we are the only mainland capital city without one and have fallen well behind.

London does fine without one.

[metro]

a city with the size and population of adelaide needs a north south non stop motorway at the very minimum. we are the only mainland capital city without one and have fallen well behind.

Not quite.. in Sydney there is still 8km of arterial road with about 22 sets of lights between the M2 Motorway and the Pacific Motorway, there is a new tunnel being built to eliminate this, due for completion at the end of the year. About 14 years ago going North-South across Sydney was much worse, before the M7 motorway opened, it was 42km of arterial road and 83 sets of lights. Even now, if you don't want to pay like $20 in tolls, that's what you have to drive through.

For comparison, from the Southern Expressway to the T2T trench is about 13km and 24 sets of lights (7 of them are pedestrian crossings), then another 3 sets of lights between T2T and the Superway, which really isn't that bad for a city of Adelaide's size and population.

But one thing we actually don't have that every other mainland capital city does, is a fully electrified suburban rail system.

[Patrick_27]

a city with the size and population of adelaide needs a north south non stop motorway at the very minimum. we are the only mainland capital city without one and have fallen well behind.

Not quite.. in Sydney there is still 8km of arterial road with about 22 sets of lights between the M2 Motorway and the Pacific Motorway, there is a new tunnel being built to eliminate this, due for completion at the end of the year. About 14 years ago going North-South across Sydney was much worse, before the M7 motorway opened, it was 42km of arterial road and 83 sets of lights. Even now, if you don't want to pay like $20 in tolls, that's what you have to drive through.

For comparison, from the Southern Expressway to the T2T trench is about 13km and 24 sets of lights (7 of them are pedestrian crossings), then another 3 sets of lights between T2T and the Superway, which really isn't that bad for a city of Adelaide's size and population.

But one thing we actually don't have that every other mainland capital city does, is a fully electrified suburban rail system.

Touche. Read the other day that Victoria has had electrified rail for at-least 100 years, begs the question where our priorities have been in the way of government spending during the economic boom years considering we don't have a large-scale tram network anymore, we have a much smaller rail network and our trains are mostly still diesel-electric, our worst arterial roads are only now being addressed (i.e. n/s corridor) and our hospitals (with exception to the NRAH) are rundown and under capacity. Prior to the state bank collapse, where the hell was our state's money going?

[SBD]

a city with the size and population of adelaide needs a north south non stop motorway at the very minimum. we are the only mainland capital city without one and have fallen well behind.

Not quite.. in Sydney there is still 8km of arterial road with about 22 sets of lights between the M2 Motorway and the Pacific Motorway, there is a new tunnel being built to eliminate this, due for completion at the end of the year. About 14 years ago going North-South across Sydney was much worse, before the M7 motorway opened, it was 42km of arterial road and 83 sets of lights. Even now, if you don't want to pay like $20 in tolls, that's what you have to drive through.

For comparison, from the Southern Expressway to the T2T trench is about 13km and 24 sets of lights (7 of them are pedestrian crossings), then another 3 sets of lights between T2T and the Superway, which really isn't that bad for a city of Adelaide's size and population.

But one thing we actually don't have that every other mainland capital city does, is a fully electrified suburban rail system.

Touche. Read the other day that Victoria has had electrified rail for at-least 100 years, begs the question where our priorities have been in the way of government spending during the economic boom years considering we don't have a large-scale tram network anymore, we have a much smaller rail network and our trains are mostly still diesel-electric, our worst arterial roads are only now being addressed (i.e. n/s corridor) and our hospitals (with exception to the NRAH) are rundown and under capacity. Prior to the state bank collapse, where the hell was our state's money going?

Reading old newspapers, the first time I have seen electrifying the rail network mentioned was as an extension of the work to electrify the tram network. There was also a push that it might finally happen as part of establishing the new city of Elizabeth.

[claybro]

a city with the size and population of adelaide needs a north south non stop motorway at the very minimum. we are the only mainland capital city without one and have fallen well behind.

London does fine without one.

Not entirely true. London has motorways through its middle and outer metro areas. With regard to older central areas, it is very definitely not doing "fine"-and they have a congestion tax to prevent people driving in, despite a pretty fantastic PT system.

[rev]

a city with the size and population of adelaide needs a north south non stop motorway at the very minimum. we are the only mainland capital city without one and have fallen well behind.

London does fine without one.

Not entirely true. London has motorways through its middle and outer metro areas. With regard to older central areas, it is very definitely not doing "fine"-and they have a congestion tax to prevent people driving in, despite a pretty fantastic PT system.

Exactly. It's one of the most congested cities in the world. In 2014 they spent 82 hours in traffic jams, and it was on the increase. Imagine what it's probably like 5 years on.
They're network is incomplete just like ours.

[Westside]

So my comment was very much tongue in cheek, but my original point remains the same. There seems to be an opinion that having a freeway system is a must. My comment is that we need to break that assertion. London wouldn't dream of building a freeway through its core and instead has a multitude of public transport initiatives to bust congestion.

The problem is if we focus on what freeway is being built next, we stifle the debate about which PT improvement we need next. A rail line under the city connecting a north-south rail spine has been on the cards for as long as a north-south motorway. Yet despite that project being only a few km long we haven't got anywhere near the progress towards making that happen vs the scores of km already of new freeway built.

In the last 20 odd years we've seen an extension of 2 stations on the main north south rail line and some station upgrades. Yet we've seen what, almost 100km of new freeway in the same alignment? There is a serious imbalance here.

That's the point I'm trying to make.

[claybro]

Agree that PT investment in Adelaide is woeful, but it shouldn't be an either or thing. Motorways are critical even if just from a freight point of view, which will only increase. Planning the metro are around existing rail infrastructure is also critical to get people living and working near areas it already exists.. but there still doesn't seem much evidence of that, given the money spent building, then rebuilding Oaklands station, away from the nearest activity centre. This lack of planning, is what compounds the need for evenmore motorways.

[rev]

So my comment was very much tongue in cheek, but my original point remains the same. There seems to be an opinion that having a freeway system is a must. My comment is that we need to break that assertion. London wouldn't dream of building a freeway through its core and instead has a multitude of public transport initiatives to bust congestion.

The problem is if we focus on what freeway is being built next, we stifle the debate about which PT improvement we need next. A rail line under the city connecting a north-south rail spine has been on the cards for as long as a north-south motorway. Yet despite that project being only a few km long we haven't got anywhere near the progress towards making that happen vs the scores of km already of new freeway built.

In the last 20 odd years we've seen an extension of 2 stations on the main north south rail line and some station upgrades. Yet we've seen what, almost 100km of new freeway in the same alignment? There is a serious imbalance here.

That's the point I'm trying to make.

We need both frankly, one shouldn't come at the expense of the other. That's why it's disappointing the train line component of the northern connector wasn't done. The opportunity should have been taken to connect the likes of Two Wells & Virginia and the areas around MacDonald Park/Munno Parra West which will all be filled with housing in the decades to come.

[muzzamo]

The North-South Corridor’s final stages are expected to swallow up between 600 and 1000 properties, as Infrastructure Minister Stephan Knoll declares the Government will “tweak and reform” the laws governing compulsory acquisition.

As planning continues on the best options for the final stages of the North-South Corridor – along South Rd between the River Torrens through to Darlington – Mr Knoll has outlined the potential toll on homes and businesses. When properties are acquired, owners are entitled to the “market value” assessed as if the road upgrade was not occurring.

Compulsory acquisitions for the 10.5km final stretches of the project are set to dwarf the total number of properties acquired for previous work on the North-South Corridor.
The North-South corridor project could swallow up between 600-1000 properties.

Figures provided by the Transport Department show 557 properties have been acquired for a raft of other projects in recent years including 229 for the Torrens to Torrens section and extension, Darlington (105), South Rd Superway (40) Northern Connector (108) and Pym to Regency, (75). The State Government is considering the best way to build the final piece of South Rd, between the River Torrens and Darlington, that will be the most costly and difficult section of the non-stop freeway between Gawler and Old Noarlunga.

The last remaining portion is to link the recently completed Torrens to Torrens with the Darlington Upgrade that is now underway, a troublesome 10.5km stretch which runs through built-up suburbs and commercial districts just north and south of Anzac Highway.

The three solutions being examined by the State Government are one super tunnel, or a hybrid option of two that includes traffic returning to the surface between Anzac Highway and Edward St in Melrose Park. A tunnel-free design is also being examined, which would be similar to the Torrens to Torrens build.
Lawash Bakery owner Bashir Attayee outside his Thebarton business. Picture Dean Martin

Mr Knoll said the last piece in the North-South Corridor puzzle would slash travel times, make the road safer and unlock a huge amount of economic potential that would create jobs. “Land acquisition is a key consideration about whether or not we tunnel because it will be acquiring significantly less properties and help keep the communities alive along South Rd.

“This project will underpin thousands of construction jobs over the next decade,” he said.

He also hinted at changes to the process in which people can have their homes and businesses taken to make way for the works. “Broadly speaking, the land acquisition process in South Australia provides a fair system and works relatively well,” he said.

“However, the Marshall Government will be looking to tweak and reform the Land Acquisition Act 1969 to strengthen the process even further.”
Long-time Thebarton home owners, Judith and Brian Hall. Picture Dean Martin

Business SA spokesman Anthony Penney said the project was vital for opening up the north and south of Adelaide. He said the project would enable cheaper, faster and more efficient movement of goods, particularly exports.

Small business commissioner John Chapman last week said the State Government should set up a “contingency pool” as part of the project. The money, he said, could be used to compensate businesses that will suffer from the roadworks.

Business and property owners along South Rd in Thebarton this week had mixed emotions about impending roadworks.

Lawasha Bakery owner Bashir Attayee told The Advertiser his 18-year-old business would not survive if he had to pack up and move elsewhere.

“We will lose our customers and we would lose our business,” Mr Attayee said.
West Thebarton Hotel manager Simon Hughes. Picture Dean Martin

The Afghani restaurant was the first of its kind in Adelaide and was about to undergo a new refurbishment. But uncertainty about where the roadworks would go has made him question the future.

“If the roads takes this way, we will have 10 people lining up for Centrelink,” he said.

Across the road, Brian and Judith Hall are not as concerned. Mr Hall, 73, was born in the house, as was his mother before him but he and Mrs Hall, 67, have known for a long time the government could take the property. “I would say if you have got $550,000, no worries,” Mr Hall said.

‘They already took 4m of my front yard about 20 years ago when they widened the road.”

Judith agrees: “It would be sad to leave it but we do want to downsize eventually.”

Down the road, West Thebarton Hotel Manager Simon Hughes was also not fussed.

“Due to the heritage listing of the hotel we are safe here,” Mr Hughes said. “Any roadworks that they do in the future will just be a benefit for us.” ​​

[Spotto]

The Afghani restaurant was the first of its kind in Adelaide and was about to undergo a new refurbishment. But uncertainty about where the roadworks would go has made him question the future.

Everyone's known for years that this has been slowly coming, and this owner plans a renovation then complains?

It's a shame that businesses and properties might be lost if the tunnel solution is not chosen, but this restaurant sounds like another Peter Van case.