[COM] Adelaide Oval Hotel

[rev]

Re: the Perth comparison, I'll take a decent stadium in the heart of the city over one that's shiny but far from anything.

Adelaide Oval is not in the heart of the city, it's not even the Adelaide 5000 post code. It's on the other side of the river in the North Adelaide 5006 post code, on the periphery of the Adelaide City.
Or do you mean heart of the city as in the wider metro area? Because so is Perth Stadium.

Perth Stadium is not that far from anything in reality. Crown Perth is right on it's door step. If you think a SkyCity compares to a Crown venue, you're dreaming. It'll take you five minutes to walk to Skycity from the south of Adelaide Oval.
There's also a large train station next to the stadium that takes you into the CBD. Short trip. 6 mins. It takes 12-15 minutes to walk from the Southern entry to say Leigh Street/Hindley street.

Have a look. Perth Arena. You think we will get anything as visually striking as that for an indoor arena here, when they eventually build an indoor arena?
We rebuilt Adelaide Oval, just a bigger flashier version of the dogs breakfast that was there. The only uniformity we have in it, is the seat colours, and the roof designs of the stands.

Bang for dollar, they got more value. We didn't.

[Ho Really]

Re: the Perth comparison, I'll take a decent stadium in the heart of the city over one that's shiny but far from anything.

So do I, but...again we could've done better. Decent is not enough. That's the whole point. Although Perth's stadium is not located (blessed) like ours they've managed to give it good access with public transport and an inspiring pedestrian bridge to make up for that shortfall. Adelaide Oval still lacks plenty, that's whether in its current state, expanded or if it was a clone of Perth Stadium.

This arvo I spoke to a friend who is a regular at the Crows matches and sits in the Western Stand. I caught him at a bad moment at the end of the day's work and very tired having gone to bed only at 6am this morning and then starting work late morning. He managed to say the oval is world-class but it should be 60,000. I didn't want to continue the discussion while he was working which I'll do another time, but it is interesting he said it should be 60,000. That tells me at least the stadium should be expanded. As for the world-class remark I doubt he was being objective. My suspicion is that he was being parochial. Anyhow, I'll quiz him next time I see him.

Cheers

[how good is he]

While all valid points what has been conveniently left out is the fact that the AO re-development cost $450m -$525m while the Perth stadium cost $1.6 BILLION. I mean if they spent triple as much, I am sure AO would also be much better! As for bang for your buck, for a very rough comparison if you sliced Perth stadium into a third you may get a 20,000 person stadium for a similar spend AO. Now which would you prefer?

Btw, the AO breakdown was $450 million fixed cost redevelopment, the additional costs include $85 million payment to the SACA, $30 million in external and parklands works, $40 million for a footbridge and $5 million in upgrade costs for the Western Grandstand.

[AndyWelsh]

Can I again draw everyone’s attention to the completely unbiased/impartial comments from Paul Finch Editorial Director of the Architects Journal:

“One recent unmissable symbol of the city’s ambitions is the magnificent Adelaide Oval cricket and Australian rules football ground, by Cox Architecture. Open on one side to a hill covered in fig trees, this is certainly THE most impressive ground I have ever seen. Any temptation to enclose the ground was firmly resisted, leaving in place a truly distinctive landmark.

That design decision is a good example of what cities can do if they only encourage architects and developers to answer the following question: ‘How can we make this city more like itself, rather than more like somewhere else?’ Assuming that the city in question is not a lost cause, this is surely the attitude that should prevail in the inevitable debates that take place in relation to heritage and regeneration.”


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[Ho Really]

Can I again draw everyone’s attention to the completely unbiased/impartial comments from Paul Finch Editorial Director of the Architects Journal:

“One recent unmissable symbol of the city’s ambitions is the magnificent Adelaide Oval cricket and Australian rules football ground, by Cox Architecture. Open on one side to a hill covered in fig trees, this is certainly THE most impressive ground I have ever seen. Any temptation to enclose the ground was firmly resisted, leaving in place a truly distinctive landmark.

That design decision is a good example of what cities can do if they only encourage architects and developers to answer the following question: ‘How can we make this city more like itself, rather than more like somewhere else?’ Assuming that the city in question is not a lost cause, this is surely the attitude that should prevail in the inevitable debates that take place in relation to heritage and regeneration.”

We'll see what happens when the fig trees die and have to be removed. Or when the Commonwealth Games are staged and there's a huge downpour and people start sliding down the hill. Adelaide Oval is a stadium not an open air art gallery let that be known.

Besides who says the editorial director of a journal is unbiased? He may have friends in the industry and doesn't want to rub anyone the wrong way. Perhaps it's all a mutual admiration society. Do you know? In the end it's the people like us that make the judgement whether it's a great stadium or an ordinary one. He is entitled to his opinion and he can keep it. My

Cheers

[NTRabbit]

We'll see what happens when the fig trees die and have to be removed. Or when the Commonwealth Games are staged and there's a huge downpour and people start sliding down the hill.

Because it has never rained on the hill before

[Honey of a City]

Make no mistake about it Adelaide Oval is a magnificent venue. Comparisons with Perth or Mars or Timbuktu are pointless. What give Adelaide the edge, besides its setting and great spectator experience is its uniqueness. And innovation and uniqueness is what a provincial city needs if it wants to be noticed - but in tandem with brilliant design. Getting back to the thread topic (hotel not fig trees), the hotel concept may be admirable as an initiative, but the design is downright putrid. Being innovative is not an excuse for being design-lazy, and another huge opportunity will be missed if the published design proceeds.

[Nort]

No we should increase Adelaide Oval capacity to match Perth, then we'll get all the events instead of them, once and for all.

But won't other cities like Perth then just make their stadiums bigger, putting us right back in the same situation?

...ONCE AND FOR ALL!

[rev]

While all valid points what has been conveniently left out is the fact that the AO re-development cost $450m -$525m while the Perth stadium cost $1.6 BILLION. I mean if they spent triple as much, I am sure AO would also be much better! As for bang for your buck, for a very rough comparison if you sliced Perth stadium into a third you may get a 20,000 person stadium for a similar spend AO. Now which would you prefer?

Btw, the AO breakdown was $450 million fixed cost redevelopment, the additional costs include $85 million payment to the SACA, $30 million in external and parklands works, $40 million for a footbridge and $5 million in upgrade costs for the Western Grandstand.

And the $75 million spent on the Western Stand, +the additional cost to retrofit it after the rest of the Oval was complete.

Sure, they spent a billion more. But they got a stadium fitting of the 21st century. We got a stadium that is nothing more then an enlarged version of what was there prior, with some copper plating.
They got an entire area that was redeveloped, public plaza and all. We got a small car park paved over as a plaza, while the surrounds where left largely as is. They also got a new train station built for the stadium.

If you think that's the best we could have got for the $600 odd million spent redeveloping Adelaide Oval, that's why I showed Evertons new stadium. Which has roughly the same cost as AO. You have something that actually looks like it belongs in this era, in a major city. And then you have Adelaide Oval, something looks like it belongs in a regional city.

Although perhaps that's the problem here? Perhaps most South Australians are content with being nothing more then a regional city.


As for the rest of the comments, just the parochial South Aussie mentality as usual. Everything that happens here is already the best, world class (god does that get over used here to the point of being meaningless), we couldn't possibly do any better. Right?

We couldn't possibly have gotten a better bridge design either.

[Will]

Rev, you are partially right about the South Australian mentality. There are those whom have a small town, parochial mentality. They think everything here is world class, and there is no point in trying to improve. I'm currently living in country SA, and see it all the time.

But, you also forgot to mention the other extreme of the South Australian mentality. The one, I also saw every day, when living in Adelaide. There are those for whom everything in Adelaide is shit. Whom revel in bad news, and whom take pleasure in talking down the state.

This thread is a case study in the two extremes of the South Australian mentality.

[rev]

Rev, you are partially right about the South Australian mentality. There are those whom have a small town, parochial mentality. They think everything here is world class, and there is no point in trying to improve. I'm currently living in country SA, and see it all the time.

But, you also forgot to mention the other extreme of the South Australian mentality. The one, I also saw every day, when living in Adelaide. There are those for whom everything in Adelaide is shit. Whom revel in bad news, and whom take pleasure in talking down the state.

This thread is a case study in the two extremes of the South Australian mentality.

There's also a third, even fourth South Australian 'type'.

The third is people such as Ho Really, and my self, among others, who aren't content with the mediocre results we continue to see, and want better.
Yes we are making some negative points, but that is to illustrate the mediocrity that is not only accepted but is being hailed as great South Australian successes.

I mean wow, a guy whose paid to blow wind up the asses of people in his industry, praised Adelaide Oval. That's it, best stadium in the galaxy confirmed, no more criticism allowed.


The fourth is the South Australian who says f**k it I'm outta here.


You guys might be content with Adelaide being an average regional city(and that's all Adelaide is these days), but some of us aren't.

[GrowAdelaide]

Rev, you are partially right about the South Australian mentality. There are those whom have a small town, parochial mentality. They think everything here is world class, and there is no point in trying to improve. I'm currently living in country SA, and see it all the time.

But, you also forgot to mention the other extreme of the South Australian mentality. The one, I also saw every day, when living in Adelaide. There are those for whom everything in Adelaide is shit. Whom revel in bad news, and whom take pleasure in talking down the state.

This thread is a case study in the two extremes of the South Australian mentality.

There's also a third, even fourth South Australian 'type'.

The third is people such as Ho Really, and my self, among others, who aren't content with the mediocre results we continue to see, and want better.
Yes we are making some negative points, but that is to illustrate the mediocrity that is not only accepted but is being hailed as great South Australian successes.

I mean wow, a guy whose paid to blow wind up the asses of people in his industry, praised Adelaide Oval. That's it, best stadium in the galaxy confirmed, no more criticism allowed.


The fourth is the South Australian who says f**k it I'm outta here.


You guys might be content with Adelaide being an average regional city(and that's all Adelaide is these days), but some of us aren't.

Yes but there's a sub-group of Type Four who are the ones who go away (and not necessarily because they think Adelaide is shit) and then come back because its clear how good life is here compared to anywhere else, often with a family in tow.

[Ho Really]

We'll see what happens when the fig trees die and have to be removed. Or when the Commonwealth Games are staged and there's a huge downpour and people start sliding down the hill.

Because it has never rained on the hill before

Perhaps good for footy and cricket yobbos. Also OK on a sunny arvo with the fig trees shading you, but not so inviting if there's a downpour and you are staging the Commonwealth Games or better still the Olympics. LIke I said if these trees go they can close the northern end. There's no point in leaving it exposed. I know I rather have a completed, comfortable and dry stadium, wouldn't you?

Cheers

[rev]

Rev, you are partially right about the South Australian mentality. There are those whom have a small town, parochial mentality. They think everything here is world class, and there is no point in trying to improve. I'm currently living in country SA, and see it all the time.

But, you also forgot to mention the other extreme of the South Australian mentality. The one, I also saw every day, when living in Adelaide. There are those for whom everything in Adelaide is shit. Whom revel in bad news, and whom take pleasure in talking down the state.

This thread is a case study in the two extremes of the South Australian mentality.

There's also a third, even fourth South Australian 'type'.

The third is people such as Ho Really, and my self, among others, who aren't content with the mediocre results we continue to see, and want better.
Yes we are making some negative points, but that is to illustrate the mediocrity that is not only accepted but is being hailed as great South Australian successes.

I mean wow, a guy whose paid to blow wind up the asses of people in his industry, praised Adelaide Oval. That's it, best stadium in the galaxy confirmed, no more criticism allowed.


The fourth is the South Australian who says f**k it I'm outta here.


You guys might be content with Adelaide being an average regional city(and that's all Adelaide is these days), but some of us aren't.

Yes but there's a sub-group of Type Four who are the ones who go away (and not necessarily because they think Adelaide is shit) and then come back because its clear how good life is here compared to anywhere else, often with a family in tow.

Naturally. And there's many reasons and factors why they return.
There's not actually that many that do return compared to how many leave.

Just think about it for a moment. If life here was so good, if there was jobs galore, if the economy was thriving and pumping along at a good rate of growth, we wouldn't be having this discussion. We would have much, much higher population growth (and economic growth obviously).

[rhino]

but at least the stadium will be completed and give better viewing conditions for those that choose the northern end.

As you said, these people choose to view from the Northern end. Why? Most likely because they like the atmosphere there, out in the open under the trees, on the grass. I don't think you can seriously bring them into your argument for a Northern stand.