Beer Garden

[Nort]

Messages from the PM to those attacking Chinese individuals:

I think such an inquiry is important and we can respectively have a difference of view.... The virus began in Wuhan, China, I think that is well understood. And it's important the WHO acts and all parties that are part of the WHO, act with great transparency. I think this is important regardless of where a virus may break out. If it happened in Australia, if it happened in China, if it happened in parts of Africa or the Pacific or the Middle East or wherever it would happen to be, it's important for public health globally that there is a transparency in the way you can get access to this important information early. So it's not pursued as an issue of criticism, it's pursued as an issue of importance for public health. And I think it's important that all countries co-operate with that regardless of who they are, and we would certainly be pursuing something along those lines.

Stop it. That's my message. And I think that is the message of every Australian. Now is a time to support each other. And I would remind everyone it was Chinese Australians in particular that provided one of the greatest defences we had in those early weeks. They were the ones who first went into self-isolation, they were the ones who were returning from family visits up into China and they were returning home. It was through their care, it was through their commitment, their patients that actually Australia was protected in their first wave. Within a week of our first case we shut off those from China except for Australians returning home. And so absolutely I deplore that sort of behaviour against any Australian regardless of their ethnicity or their religion or whatever it happens to be. And I think that is the view of all Australians. So we have to call that sort of thing up. It's not on.

[rev]

The ccp firewall wont ever stop the truth from coming out.

[rev]

-A collapse of the Australian economy

Of course if we just put a stop to trade immediately without a plan or alternatives it will hurt the economy.
Nobody is actually advocating that that be done.
What is being advocated is bringing back manufacturing to Australia. Restarting our industries would see them using a great deal of our own resources that we currently export to China.
Seeking alternatives to China, such as the United States, Europe, Japan, India, would also greatly alleviate any loss of trade with China.

We actually export more to China then we import from them.
They're not even the biggest foreign investors in Australia. And that's why it all needs to be stopped now, before it's too late.

-A change of ideology from a market-based economy to a socialist/state economy

No it wouldn't.
It would be a state controlled economy, like Chinas, if the state remained in control of companies and industries.
In the immediate future, the government should where necessary step in and remove ccp ownership/leases/whatever you want to call it, as a temporary measure, and either float those companies on the market to the Australian public ala Telstra, or find interested investors from abroad that aren't ccp controlled entities.
Virgin Australia for example. Partly owned by the Chinese. But Virgin wants a government bail out. Well the condition should be that any Chinese ownership is removed if Australian tax payers money is to be used.
Another suggestion has been for the government to take an actual stake in the airline, because other countries governments do exactly that.

-World War 3

Unfortunately China is already planning and preparing for that as they believe that they will inevitably have a confrontation with the USA. Lets remember its China that is claiming the territorial waters of numerous other countries, building artificial islands, threatening to shoot down planes and sink ships including Australia's, and has ignored a ruling by the International Courts.
WW3 is coming, whether we reduce our trade with China and our reliance on Chinese manufacturing. Because the Chinese CCP regime wants that confrontation. It might happen in 5 years or 50 years, who knows but it is an inevitability at the moment because the ruling dictatorship of China believes it so and is making every preparation for it. Those preparations include corrupting our political system, it includes using soft power to try and muscle their way into our sphere of influence in the Pacific which this month saw China purposely delay the unloading of one of their military transports in Vanuatu to force the delay in the landing of a RAAF transport loaded with humanitarian aid after a cyclone hit the region. Our Pacific neighbours should look at what the Chinese CCP has done to Africa. That carrot attached to a string is often too good to be true especially when its held by a despicable regime like the ccp.

China shouldn't be completely banned or kicked out, as good as that might sound to some. I too have reservations about their actions and motives. But we need to manage this relationship, not detonate it.

So you would be saying the same things if it were the Soviet Union and not communist China? Because the only real difference is the USSR was portrayed as public enemy number 1, whereas China is portrayed as a reliable trading partner.
The CCP should absolutely be kicked out of everything to do with our national security and sovereignty.

I'm just curious to know, why do you guys actually think that the government and its agencies and such which advise it, decided to not allow Chinese tech companies to take part in the 5G roll out and NBN, and decided to remove any Chinese CCTV tech from government buildings and facilities?
Why do you think they don't use Huwaeii phones?

You guys do understand the nature of our relationship with the United States, the United Kingdom, the whole Five Eyes stuff?
I mean you guys do realize we are never going to swap the USA for China, regardless of how much trade there is...?
When push comes to shove.

[floplo]

yikes, Adelaide's skyline really has changed in the last couple of months.... and we now have a marina downtown?

[ChillyPhilly]

How are you defining that?

New cases will be in single digits at most.

I just feel that we've got it not so bad here in SA. As long as we keep borders closed, keep recovery internalised and everyone does the right thing, this prediction can happen. SA could at least be the first state to return to some degree of normality.

You could be right. The pessimistic view could be that too many of us will head out to the country for the long weekend and spread it far and wide. We will recover quicker if we don't try to do it too quickly.

We got it right.

Let's keep going.

[rev]

China's now threatening to take economic steps against us, because our government wants investigations into the source of this pandemic.

What have they got to hide?

6 pandemics in the last 30 years have started in these wet markets that China claims this one started in.

Part of our governments proposal is for the world to help these countries that have these disgusting wet markets with mixed animals/food, so that they can secure their food supplies while closing the markets down.
So whats Chinas problem?

I said as well, compromised people will be exposed.
Turns out Twiggy Forest is more interested in doing whatever he can to maintain his funding flow then he is in Australia. He's bringing us 10 million test kits from his communist pay masters. While other countries all over the world reject Chinas faulty test kits and even faulty masks, this guy brings us 10 million of the cheap faulty Chinese made kits.
Good to know where his loyalties really lie.

Do people still think China is a friendly country? If you do, you are either a ccp member or still hoping for the best.

Dont hate me because I'm always on the money, I wont say I told you so..again.

China's going to pay bigly for this. Put your mortgage on it.

[Norman]

I thought having the consul-general at the press conference was nothing short of creepy, especially when he kept saying how much China wants to help and how generous they were. It's all propoganda unfortunately, including for their domestic audience. They clearly don't want to see another revolution.

[gnrc_louis]

I wouldn’t get too excited, Rev. It has been quite publicly visible the CCP have been openly interfering in Australia since they organised large protests against pro-Tibet protesters in Australia at the 2008 olympics torch rally.

This is the same government who called critiques of Gladys Liu’s links to the CCP a racist smear on all Chinese - the exact line the CCP try to peddle. It’s politically advantageous to be “tough” on China currently, but Liu still gives them their one seat lower house majority. Also, if China do stop buying Australian goods, that will damage the economy even further.

Will the Morrison government really risk the potential ongoing fall out of challenging China in the less immediate term? I doubt it, this is likely just a bit of “red meat” for the base.

[ChillyPhilly]

I'm personally looking forward to the day China's people start a revolution and overthrow the regime. The CCP are a bit outnumbered...

[rev]

I wouldn’t get too excited, Rev. It has been quite publicly visible the CCP have been openly interfering in Australia since they organised large protests against pro-Tibet protesters in Australia at the 2008 olympics torch rally.

This is the same government who called critiques of Gladys Liu’s links to the CCP a racist smear on all Chinese - the exact line the CCP try to peddle. It’s politically advantageous to be “tough” on China currently, but Liu still gives them their one seat lower house majority. Also, if China do stop buying Australian goods, that will damage the economy even further.

Will the Morrison government really risk the potential ongoing fall out of challenging China in the less immediate term? I doubt it, this is likely just a bit of “red meat” for the base.

2008 and 2020 are two vastly different times.

I don't expect this government to do anything serious.
But the Americans, especially when Trump wins a second term, will hold China accountable.

[rev]

We should maintain economic ties and trade relations with this?

The Fate Of Uighur Muslims In China: From Re-education Camps To Forced Labor
Ewelina U. Ochab

According to a recent report published by the Australian Strategic Policy Institute (ASPI), between 2017 and 2019, the Chinese Government facilitated the transfer of Uighur Muslims and other ethnic minorities from Xinjiang to factories in various parts of China.

The allegations come several months after the situation in Xinjiang hit the headlines with reports of the mass incarceration of Uighur Muslims in so-called “re-education camps.” According to them, there are an estimated one million (if not more) Uighur Muslims detained in so-called “re-education camps” which are designed to strip them of their religious and ethnic identity and replace it with absolute loyalty to the state.

According to the ASPI report, there are strong indications that some 80,000 Uighurs have been forced to work in factories that form part of the supply chains of at least 83 global brands including “Abercrombie & Fitch, Acer, Adidas, Alstom, Amazon, Apple, ASUS, BAIC Motor, BMW, Bombardier, Bosch, BYD, Calvin Klein, Candy, Carter’s, Cerruti 1881, Changan Automobile, Cisco, CRRC, Dell, Electrolux, Fila, Founder Group, GAC Group (automobiles), Gap, Geely Auto, General Electric, General Motors, Google, H&M, Haier, Hart Scha ner Marx, Hisense, Hitachi, HP, HTC, Huawei, iFlyTek, Jack & Jones, Jaguar, Japan Display Inc., L.L.Bean, Lacoste, Land Rover, Lenovo, LG, Li-Ning, Mayor, Meizu, Mercedes-Benz, MG, Microso , Mitsubishi, Mitsumi, Nike, Nintendo, Nokia, The North Face, Oculus, Oppo, Panasonic, Polo Ralph Lauren, Puma, Roewe, SAIC Motor, Samsung, SGMW, Sharp, Siemens, Skechers, Sony, TDK, Tommy Hilfiger, Toshiba, Tsinghua Tongfang, Uniqlo, Victoria’s Secret, Vivo, Volkswagen, Xiaomi, Zara, Zegna, ZTE.”

The report suggests that these companies have been using forced Uighur labor in their supply chains. As a result, they could find themselves in breach of laws which prohibit the importation of goods made with forced labor. Among the International Labor Organisation (ILO) forced labor indicators, the report identified the following factors as relevant for the case of the Uighur Muslims:

“• being subjected to intimidation and threats, such as the threat of arbitrary detention, and being monitored by security personnel and digital surveillance tools

• being placed in a position of dependency and vulnerability, such as by threats to family members back in Xinjiang

• having freedom of movement restricted, such as by fenced-in factories and high-tech surveillance

• isolation, such as living in segregated dormitories and being transported in dedicated trains

• abusive working conditions, such as political indoctrination, police guard posts in factories, ‘military-style’ management, and a ban on religious practices

• excessive hours, such as after-work Mandarin language classes and political indoctrination sessions that are part of job assignments.”

The report focuses on a few case studies. For example, the report alleges that in January 2020, around 600 ethnic minority workers from Xinjiang were employed at Qingdao Taekwang Shoes Co. Ltd., making Nike sneakers. It further adds that: “At the factory, the Uighur laborers make Nike shoes during the day. In the evening, they attend a night school where they study Mandarin, sing the Chinese national anthem and receive ‘vocational training’ and ‘patriotic education.’ The curriculum closely mirrors that of Xinjiang’s ‘re-education camps’.”

A month after the launch of the ASPI report, the majority of the named companies have not addressed the accusations, whether to reject the accusations or explain their due diligence procedures.

The ASPI report calls upon other states not to turn a blind eye but, together with other states, to “increase pressure on the Chinese government to end the use and facilitation of Uighur forced labor and mass extrajudicial detention, including through the use of targeted sanctions on senior officials responsible for Xinjiang’s coercive labor transfers” and to “review trade agreements to restrict commodities and products being produced with forced labor.” It is time for China to put an end to its practice of human rights violations, including, abuse of religious minorities.

Furthermore, we also can play a role in stopping the situation. The businesses that may flourish in supply chains based on forced labor should not receive the support of anyone purporting to respect human rights. It is also time for big (and expensive) brands to stop making profit off the back of the abuse and exploitation of people. We pay good money for their products. We expect good quality. But we also expect that the products are ethical, not the product of modern day slavery, produced in pain and blood of repressed people and whole communities.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbes-per ... 1c3dd95b95

[bits]

Heck why don't they build a new parliament there? What have we got to lose at this point its not like this state is moving forward. Perhaps a small reset is what's needed

......

A shake up wouldnt be a bad thing, either nothing much will change or we will start moving forwards again with a renewed confidence that most od us have never seen in our time in SA.

Oh rev you are quite the broken record.
SA isn't broken. We are moving forwards. SA is a world leader in renewable energy. We have very good food supplies. We have low pollution. We are world leaders in recovery from coronavirus.
We have more affordable homes than most Australian cities.
And SA people are towards the top of the list of world's richest people even if we are below Perth and Brisbane etc.

SA is one of the most happiest, healthy and wealthy places to live in the world and you want to blow it all up and start again because we got it all wrong?

[rev]

Heck why don't they build a new parliament there? What have we got to lose at this point its not like this state is moving forward. Perhaps a small reset is what's needed

......

A shake up wouldnt be a bad thing, either nothing much will change or we will start moving forwards again with a renewed confidence that most od us have never seen in our time in SA.

Oh rev you are quite the broken record.
SA isn't broken. We are moving forwards. SA is a world leader in renewable energy. We have very good food supplies. We have low pollution. We are world leaders in recovery from coronavirus.
We have more affordable homes than most Australian cities.
And SA people are towards the top of the list of world's richest people even if we are below Perth and Brisbane etc.

SA is one of the most happiest, healthy and wealthy places to live in the world and you want to blow it all up and start again because we got it all wrong?

Yeh this is really the thread for this discussion, not that my post contained ANYTHING contrary to your claims. But we have mods they can move the posts to beer garden if they want..

What's a broken record is South Aussies parroting the same "world class" this & that nonsense, that we are world leaders on this or that. Guess what, for all that so called world leading world class stuff, most people wouldn't move here, and even more people have never heard of SA or Adelaide.

Lol how much of the tech for renewable energy has been developed here locally? Go do some research and see where most of it comes from, because it aint here buddy. Stop purposely misleading people by exlcuding facts. We are one of the highest uptakers of renewables, thats it. Theres many other plaves in the world with a high rate of uptake, and places where they actually develop and build what we import and install and pat our selves on the back for.

Good food supplies. Do you think SA is the only place in Australia or the world with a good food supply?

Lots of places have low pollution and less then us.

We haven't begun to recover from SARS-COV2. Nobody has because the pandemic isn't over.

Affordable homes. And? Its all relative. You make less money here then interstate where homes are more expensive.

Did you know that more then half of Australians live week to week, pay cheque to pay cheque? Something like a quarter or more have less then a weeks wages/salary in their bank accounts at any one time saved. And you think the average person is wealthy.

You forgot to mention our wine regions. Guess what, other states have wine regions too.
You forgot to mention our festivals. Guess what other states have festivals too, some way bigger and more popular then ours.

You at least have stopped parroting the 20 minute city nonsense.

And in any case how does any of it prove this city is moving forward? It doesnt.

Let me refer ti Melbourne as sn example, you can go there once a year and see the huge changes that occur. Its skyline is unrecognizable from 10 years ago. Ours looks almist identical to 30 years ago. Besides the two new towers on the eastern side, you'd need a magnifying glass to pick the changes in a photo.

But let me point you to some stats that prove this state isn't moving forward. Pre SARS-COV2 pandemic..
Highest unemployment and low economic growth.

If the state was moving forward, those two indicators would be the opposite. Another indicator is population growth. Its too low, because the economy stinks. Nobody is going to move to a place with a poorly performing economy. And many other factors.

You, and many others can keep telling your selves everything is fine, we are world class world leaders, but reality is different and the stats prove it. Or you can start demanding better. The reason nothing changes is because people accept the status quo.
If enough people didnt accept the status quo as goos enough anymore and demanded better, guess what..in time we would see better outcomes because our elected officials would either 1) lift their game or 2) be pushed aside by those who will deliver.

[Nort]

As a migrant who has chosen to make Adelaide my home, I would say that many in Adelaide don't appreciate just what an amazing place this is to live.

Yes there are challenges here, and a small vision mentality in the media and government that holds progress back.

It is interesting to note that the economic decline of South Australia from the 1980's onwards seems to be correlated with a drift away from the political progressiveness that once defined the state.

When you want to make Adelaide a great place to live, both those grand economic and social visions are important. Just as the economic decline is embarrassing, so too is the fact that some of the loudest voices opposing progress have come from here. Ultimately, no-one who says no to progress in one of those realms has any standing to act sanctimonious about the other.

[gnrc_louis]

I wouldn’t get too excited, Rev. It has been quite publicly visible the CCP have been openly interfering in Australia since they organised large protests against pro-Tibet protesters in Australia at the 2008 olympics torch rally.

This is the same government who called critiques of Gladys Liu’s links to the CCP a racist smear on all Chinese - the exact line the CCP try to peddle. It’s politically advantageous to be “tough” on China currently, but Liu still gives them their one seat lower house majority. Also, if China do stop buying Australian goods, that will damage the economy even further.

Will the Morrison government really risk the potential ongoing fall out of challenging China in the less immediate term? I doubt it, this is likely just a bit of “red meat” for the base.

2008 and 2020 are two vastly different times.

I don't expect this government to do anything serious.
But the Americans, especially when Trump wins a second term, will hold China accountable.

Can make a pretty strong argument that Trump's "America First" policies have actually strengthened China's position. Sure, he might be more combative in his rhetoric towards China, but he's also made numerous threats to cut funding to NATO members and pull troops out of places of South Korea and Japan - both of which would greatly strengthen Chinese hard power in the region. U.S. hard power is mainly derived from their ability to project their military in every corner of the globe, pulling troops out of the aforementioned places will decrease that. Also, getting involved in another ultimately pointless and costly conflict in the Middle East i.e. with Iran would be equally damaging to them.

Also, here's a good piece by Peter Hartcher: https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal ... 54p57.html
Who would've thought wealthy businessmen are only motivated by self interest and not the greater good of the country!