News & Discussion: O-Bahn

[claybro]

Working out how to best manage the sheer volume of buses using the Grenfell/Currie Streets PT corridor is always going to be a challenge, IF the one central bus lane in each direction was implemented it is still not clear how to prevent continual bus to bus blockages without bus overtaking lanes at ‘platforms in the middle’ or ‘super stops’, and that is not practical. Its going to take a smart solution to work it out – a thousand plus buses a day down the strip all needing several stops each along this section between East and West Terraces.

Build a bus tunnel as has been done in Brisbane and Perth, or turn the Obahn into heavy rail. The OBahn idea is great for the outer suburban end, but high volume high frequency buses will only ever cause problems and is limited at the city end in its current guise.

[rubberman]

Working out how to best manage the sheer volume of buses using the Grenfell/Currie Streets PT corridor is always going to be a challenge, IF the one central bus lane in each direction was implemented it is still not clear how to prevent continual bus to bus blockages without bus overtaking lanes at ‘platforms in the middle’ or ‘super stops’, and that is not practical. Its going to take a smart solution to work it out – a thousand plus buses a day down the strip all needing several stops each along this section between East and West Terraces.

Much of the problem is due to front door loading. If all buses on Grenfell and Currie had two or three door loading, the problem would be vastly reduced.

The buses the Adelaide uses load much slower than equivalent European bus systems. In European systems, buses are all low floor and generally three wide doors. I have observed European "bendy buses" loading upwards of 150 pax, shutting doors and taking off in 30 seconds from doors opening.

The solutions are there. We just need to look elswhere than the UK for them.

https://www.solarisbus.com/en/vehicles/ ... metrostyle

[PeFe]

So will those big Solaris buses travel through narrow suburban streets? Or are they meant to transport large numbers of people to nodes like Paradise Interchange and Tea Tree Plaza where you transfer to a smaller bus that can traverse suburbia?

[rubberman]

So will those big Solaris buses travel through narrow suburban streets? Or are they meant to transport large numbers of people to nodes like Paradise Interchange and Tea Tree Plaza where you transfer to a smaller bus that can traverse suburbia?

They are the same width as standard buses. You can have shorter versions with fewer modules for lighter duties, plus standardisation of parts and maintenance. The main features though, are all low floor, with three door loading on the single module, meaning much shorter dwell times in the CBD...and any other busy stops/interchanges. In fact, in the days of 2 man (yep, men only in the MTT) buses, it was three door loading, non low floor, and loading and trip times were faster. So, adding low floor as a feature should speed up un/loading even more.

The point being that if Adelaide were to adopt modern European practice in its buses, the problems of Grenfell Street might evaporate. They'd certainly be much less than they are now, and I doubt the cost would be much different.

https://images.app.goo.gl/Q9F74zh2wK6VdUot8

[Norman]

The O-Bahn buses already do all door boarding.

[PeFe]

How do we get rid of the conga line of buses that block Grenfell and Currie Streets every peak hour? Buses that only hold 50-60 people max....
Then we need.....

[rubberman]

The O-Bahn buses already do all door boarding.

Yes, and they now board much faster than before. There are a lot more buses on Grenfell Street that still board at the front. Plus, I am talking five doors vs three.

This isn't a big deal, imho. If we want to ease the problems in Grenfell Street, it's the cheapest, easiest and least risk option.

I guess my point is, why go for expensive "solutions" when bog standard procedures used in Europe, and in Adelaide until the early 1970s can be installed cheaply?

[rubberman]

How do we get rid of the conga line of buses that block Grenfell and Currie Streets every peak hour? Buses that only hold 50-60 people max....
Then we need.....
images.jpeg

Or...

[Bob]

The problem is still more complex than people think for the Grenfell/Currie PT corridor as it is dealing with bus routes from Adelaide Hills in the southeast, Norwood, Kensington and Burnside districts in the east, Port Adelaide district in the north west in addition to the obahn buses.

Even if you change ALL those buses to all door loading it still wouldn’t stop bus to bus blockages, just too many trying to use the same spot at the same time, even if you convert the obahn into light rail the other buses using the same roadway will still back up into the tram and other buses.

If you had a bus tunnel the full length that would mean all bus routes entering at the same entry point on East Terrace which would create a bottleneck there as buses will need to give way to each other coming from different roads to enter.

The study done as per the article in The Advertiser clearly didn't address how to deal with all these buses once they arrive at this CBD PT corridor because that is a weak link - even if they could convert some suburban main roads to the central bus lane, but for me, and I know this is not popular but making roads like Kensington Road to take one example of an old inner/middle suburbia arterial road, a 24/7 clearway would be better bang for buck getting traffic flowing including buses.

[PeFe]

In my plan for a Grenfell/Currie transit mall the trams would use the inside lanes, the bus stops would be kerbside and the centre lane would be for travelling.

There would no bus stops at the same location as the tram stops allowing platforms to be built to service the tram passengers.

No private cars in the transit mall just buses, delivery vehicles and taxis. (Ubers would have to use other streets given the difficulties if verification)

[rubberman]

In my plan for a Grenfell/Currie transit mall the trams would use the inside lanes, the bus stops would be kerbside and the centre lane would be for travelling.

There would no bus stops at the same location as the tram stops allowing platforms to be built to service the tram passengers.

No private cars in the transit mall just buses, delivery vehicles and taxis. (Ubers would have to use other streets given the difficulties if verification)

That two lane ideas is fine if bus and tram numbers are the same. However, if there's a mismatch, and that's likely, you'll need to have some buses run in the tram lane...which they can, obviously. I suggest you say that up front, because it's almost certain if there's a mismatch people will come back at you saying two lanes won't work.

[PeFe]

There are 3 lanes.....

[rubberman]

There are 3 lanes.....

I meant for buses and trams only. Obviously the third lane stays as you suggest.

[Nort]

No private cars in the transit mall just buses, delivery vehicles and taxis. (Ubers would have to use other streets given the difficulties if verification)

That's an ok plan if rebuilding the city, but there are multiple car parks and businesses along Currie/Grenfell that need private vehicle access, any plan would need to allow that.

[PeFe]

Yeah the carparks would have to go......no great loss in such important commercial streets.

And I did mention delivery vehicles......I am not trying to reinvent the wheel.....Rundle Mall has been car free since 1976.