[U/C] 88 O'Connell Street | 63m | 13, 13 and 15 Levels | Mixed Use

[how good is he]

My point was to highlight the hypocrisy of the ACC.
And Nathan, it was the DAC that approved the former 15 storey plan, not council.

[Nathan]

And Nathan, it was the DAC that approved the former 15 storey plan, not council.

So? You were suggesting that approving the current 15 storey building when there is an 8 storey limit would be unfair to other developers who had to stick to 8 storeys. I was pointing out that this is an exception that is not exclusive to the council.

[how good is he]

The difference is the council was the vendor/seller here and had the power to veto/not sell the site unless the development complied with their own guidelines and thus render the DAC powerless. With the previous 15 storey DAC/Makris approval, the council had no say.
Further were developers misled by doing their feasibility based on an 8 storey height limit (and bid accordingly lower) and thus missed out?

[floplo]

The difference is the council was the vendor/seller here and had the power to veto/not sell the site unless the development complied with their own guidelines and thus render the DAC powerless. With the previous 15 storey DAC/Makris approval, the council had no say.
Further were developers misled by doing their feasibility based on an 8 storey height limit (and bid accordingly lower) and thus missed out?

It took a year or so between selecting the current developer and that developer showing off plans. Depending on how the original tender documents were written, it is absolutely possible they won it with an 8 storeys proposal and then negotiated it up to 15 as 8 is commercially not viable.

Or council wrote the tender as 'preferably 8, but show us something viable'....

I doubt that there was a hard 8 limit and the developer won it with a 15 storeys proposal...

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[RoiMartel]

Overdue. If they could get the tram down here next North Adelaide will be a completely different place in a few years

At present there is inadequate public transport and/ or parking and this is unlikely to be improved in the near future.

I can't say I've ever had an issue with parking in North Adelaide. The North Adelaide Village normally has plenty of parks, and if not, there's plenty along the likes of Tynte St and Childers St/Barton Tce.

Someone who responds to this saying we need to argue about it a bit more and wait is not "part of" adelaide's problem, they're the problem.

Agree entirely!

[Bob]

Overdue. If they could get the tram down here next North Adelaide will be a completely different place in a few years

Yes – the planning for the tram expansion is overdue, Infrastructure SA was given this as one of their key priorities to review, maybe the Libs will announce some of I-SA review outcomes before 2022 election, hopefully including this tram extension?

Surely the case to extend the tram is building momentum now –

88 O’Connell now going ahead,
The Brown family’s towers at Brougham – first of three under construction,
The Anglican Church proposing to build their major visitor centre experience at St Peters Cathedral,
With the new WCH looking more promising by the day that it will go ahead, this in turn free's up about 20,000m² of land as a significant new development site at the current location – that’s almost triple the land area of the former LeCornu site,
ACC seriously considering building the new Aquatic Centre in the same location as now,
Plus, by default you get a tram stop for foot traffic into the northern entrances of AO.

I hope the 2022 election campaign by both sides of politics at least acknowledge the planning should start for this extension sooner than later.

[Smithy84]

Libs don’t do trams. Simple as that.

[PeFe]

O'Connell Street is really the only tram extension that can be justified in Adelaide...not because there a million people waiting for public transport in North Adelaide but because this tram extension will encourage developers/businesses to expand there, just like it did in West North Terrace and south King William Street.

Build a tram extension (in the right place) and they will come....

[Spotto]

O'Connell Street is really the only tram extension that can be justified in Adelaide...not because there a million people waiting for public transport in North Adelaide but because this tram extension will encourage developers/businesses to expand there, just like it did in West North Terrace and south King William Street.

Build a tram extension (in the right place) and they will come....

I would argue that a City Loop tram holds the same merits and can also be easily justified. Maybe a successful North Adelaide tram might encourage the people of Norwood to change their tune and a tram along The Parade could happen, similar proximity to the Square Mile and similar streetscape of retail and leisure along a shopping strip.

But I agree that outside of the parklands is when it gets more difficult to win people over.

[Patrick_27]

Someone very wise once said to me that Labor's ethos with regards to projects such as trams and whatnot is 'build it and they will come' whereas the Liberals work on the opposite end of 'come and we'll look into building it'. So long as Marshall and the Libs are in government, the North Adelaide tram extension will only happen if the density increases significantly around O'Connell Street or if we secure a Commonwealth Games and get our hands on Federal money to fund it.

[rev]

Unfortunately the Liberals have already said no to a Commonwealth Games bid.





"Architect" Sandy Wilkinson proposed this. These are Sandy Wilkinson's images supplied to The Advertiser.


Compare the two. One looks like something a school kid has put together using free version of sketchup for the first time




Some group calling it self "Vital North Adelaide" had this to say,

“We should be capable of creating something that the whole state can be proud of, something that will be there for generations,”


Really, they think the visual diarrhoea an alleged architect has put forward above on their behalf, is something the whole state could be proud of?

[Nathan]

Sandy has routinely put through renderings of “re-designs” that look like they come from another era. Still hand-drawn, and either lack detail beyond massing, or stuck in that 90s post-modern/heritage mashup style.

I don’t even see how his sketch solves any of the supposed issues he and similar are claiming. Similar setbacks for the “towers”, at which point the height difference doesn’t have much of an impact on shadowing.

[Algernon]

Dont know if it's the closed border doing its thing, but regarding the commonwealth games.... get with the times folks. There has been a global shift in appetite in hosting these sorts of big events like olympics, expos etc. Its no longer a case that any cost can be justified for the prestige, and this is even being recipocrated in the attitude of events organisers themselves - see the new bidding process for the Olympics where the IOC has essentially told cities not to bother bidding after announcing it's Brisbane's to lose before winning it. Comonwealth games? Why would you? Nobody including the IOC can be 100% bothered with an Olympics now.

[Patrick_27]

Dont know if it's the closed border doing its thing, but regarding the commonwealth games.... get with the times folks. There has been a global shift in appetite in hosting these sorts of big events like olympics, expos etc. Its no longer a case that any cost can be justified for the prestige, and this is even being recipocrated in the attitude of events organisers themselves - see the new bidding process for the Olympics where the IOC has essentially told cities not to bother bidding after announcing it's Brisbane's to lose before winning it. Comonwealth games? Why would you? Nobody including the IOC can be 100% bothered with an Olympics now.

My mention of it wasn't even an endorsement, simply that if Adelaide were to host the games that would sure enough be a catalyst for a tramline to be built along O'Connell Street especially if it was decided that the Adelaide Aquatic Centre was to become our state's main swimming centre again. But whilst we're on the topic of it, there is evidently more merit to a Commonwealth Games than an Olympic Games. Half the budget (and effort) required to host one, less expectation on the calibre, locality and age of the facilities and more about the sport themselves and whether a city can cater for them, less athletes and staff to accommodate and yet still a massive global audience to showcase the host city to and by and large a better return for your investment. From South Australia's perspective with the funds that the federal government unlock for these kinds of global tier events (meaning amass of infrastructure upgrades at the expense of the federal government i.e. potential Adelaide Airport extension, public transport improvements, road corridor improvements if required and recreational facility improvements - things that would otherwise cost our State government alone), the better question is, why wouldn't you take a stab at hosting one? Furthermore from a ego POV, the fact that the Gold Coast (not even a capital city) has hosted the Commonwealth Games meanwhile Adelaide remains to be the only major state capital not to have hosted one in Australia is pretty embarrassing, And it just goes to show, not that we're ahead of our time and think these events are banal and irrelevant, but that we're slow, stubborn and have no forward-thinking perspective on how to present ourselves as a potential global city and we're so fragile and cautious because we lost our bid in '97 when we should instead be using that as impetus to develop a more attractive bid to the deciding committee. And that's kind of where that argument ties in with this particular development; approved by authorities who possess some logic by still opposed by a slow, stubborn, and digressive mob who have no forward thinking perspective for what this development might offer North Adelaide in the long-term.

[Bob]

Topic has gone off sideways a bit, but...

Who has expressed the desire for the tram be extended to NA?

Adelaide CC
Prospect CC
Labor party
Stadium Management Authority
Anglican church
Developers
Major sports supporters

And where is does it sit within the current Lib party?

Steven Marshall is not against trams within the 'parklands' zone if they stack up economically, which can be interpreted many ways, but alas thats what they set Infrastructure SA up for, (3 years ago), and these projects are on their priority list.

My speculation is the NA tram extension will get planning permission to start during the next government term, after the 2022 election is settled, whoever gets in - I think the city loop will take a back seat because no one can agree on the route and it seems to hard a nut to crack at this time.

This development on such a high profile site might just be the catalyst to move to the next stage for planning the tram extension. Hope so.