Ideas for a greater public transport system

[AG]

Bikes are not allowed on the trams.

[AG]

Today's tiser mentions the Governments plans to expand the tram network and light
rail network. I assume they are planning to convert all current heavy rail to light
rail. Yes the train network needs to have track upgrades, standardisation,
electrification and modern carriages. However what needs to be clarified by
the Government of what they are thinking of in terms of light rail replacement
of the train network. Are they thinking of rail cars like Perth or Brisbane EMU's
capable of travelling 130km/h and thus being efficient, reliable and likely
to attract travellers to public transport or are they thinking of sticking
FLEXITY Classic style trams on train tracks and running them at 70-80km/hr
... This would not make express travel from Galwer or Norlunga etc very speedy
or beneficially at all...

Government must clarify what it means by Tram and what it means by Light
Rail because they seem to mention both but are they talking about the same
vehicles or what?

Some members of the Government seemed to be a bit confused between light rail and heavy rail when news articles and news bulletins were being displayed with the ambition to have a light rail system like Perth's which does not have a light rail system and heavy rail trains were being showed instead. I can't see trains being replaced by trams on either the Gawler or Noarlunga lines considering how little spare capacity exists on some services during peak hour (some running 7-8 minutes apart on the same line), nor can I see them running services to Belair which is in a corridor currently used by freight trains on the ARTC line. I think a replacement for the Grange line (beyond Woodville) would be worthwhile considering, but not any other line.

[PhilH]

The new Flexity trams have a seating capacity almost the same as a single typical Adelaide rail car. However, you can't run trams in four car sets!

You never will see a north western rail train with more than 2 carriage, most are one. Thing is as a tram runs more frequent than the trains it works out the same.

Well, there's same and there's same - the six trains between Ethelton and Adelaide between 7:30 and 8:30 am (one of them three cars, by the way) take about 1200 SEATED passengers, with a few standing (thankfully we don't usually experience the levels of overcrowding experienced by the Gawler and Noarlunga lines). The Flexity's seating capacity is about 64, so you would need 18.75 trams in that hour to have the same seated capacity, or roughly one tram every three and a bit minutes - like that's ever going to happen! I reckon we'd be lucky to get more than the current peak frequency, so there would be a lot more people having to stand than do now, which will not go down at all well in the current climate!

[Ho Really]

...I think a replacement for the Grange line (beyond Woodville) would be worthwhile considering, but not any other line.

You could be right, it seems to be the only line that is half suitable. Personally I'm not a fan of trams running down rail corridors - like most of the Adelaide-Glenelg line - as trams should only replace buses on major road routes, but the Flexity Classic would look good cutting through Royal Adelaide Golf Course going to Grange.

Cheers

[jimmy_2486]

I reckon most main roads in the inner metro that is a go zone could possible be made into a tram route, would be so great.

[Cruise]

Bikes are not allowed on the trams.

Well that sucks

I use my bike more and more lately and not being allowed on trams is stupid.
if anything people should be encouraged to take up cycling

[bmw boy]

Bikes are not allowed on the trams.

Well that sucks

I use my bike more and more lately and not being allowed on trams is stupid.
if anything people should be encouraged to take up cycling

There isnt really enough room to allow bikes on trams..

[ozisnowman]

Today's tiser mentions the Governments plans to expand the tram network and light
rail network. I assume they are planning to convert all current heavy rail to light
rail. Yes the train network needs to have track upgrades, standardisation,
electrification and modern carriages. However what needs to be clarified by
the Government of what they are thinking of in terms of light rail replacement
of the train network. Are they thinking of rail cars like Perth or Brisbane EMU's
capable of travelling 130km/h and thus being efficient, reliable and likely
to attract travellers to public transport or are they thinking of sticking
FLEXITY Classic style trams on train tracks and running them at 70-80km/hr
... This would not make express travel from Galwer or Norlunga etc very speedy
or beneficially at all...

Government must clarify what it means by Tram and what it means by Light
Rail because they seem to mention both but are they talking about the same
vehicles or what?

Some members of the Government seemed to be a bit confused between light rail and heavy rail when news articles and news bulletins were being displayed with the ambition to have a light rail system like Perth's which does not have a light rail system and heavy rail trains were being showed instead. I can't see trains being replaced by trams on either the Gawler or Noarlunga lines considering how little spare capacity exists on some services during peak hour (some running 7-8 minutes apart on the same line), nor can I see them running services to Belair which is in a corridor currently used by freight trains on the ARTC line. I think a replacement for the Grange line (beyond Woodville) would be worthwhile considering, but not any other line.

Damn right about some members of the Government beeing a bit confused between tram / light rail / heavy rail. I have notice too they note an ambition to have a light rail system like Perth's, problem is that Perth does not have a light rail system but a heavy rail system (electrified commuter trains). Maybe they see Perth's EMU class as light rail compared to our current really heavy outdated diesel trains. They really need to clarify what they are taking about....

I suspect they are thinking about a system which uses similar carriages to Perth's EMU class which can travel at upto 130km/hr whilst any tram
extensions around the City, Norwood, North Adelaide, Airport etc would use the FLEXITY Classic Light Rail Vehicle the Government refers to as Trams.
Bombarier makes both the FLEXITY Classic and Perth's EMU Class. Would make sense to buy carriages and trains as part of co-operative purchase with
Perth Rail, that way you could get the sets for less money as you are purchasing more sets.

[Cruise]

i dont think its the speed that matters.

its more so the capacity of trams

[jimmy_2486]

Well I think IN OUR CASE speed doesnt matter cos I think our trains are as slow as hell.

I was overhearing a conversation on the train a week ago and they were saying that the trains are run by electric motors that are generated by a diesel generator....so we dont have to replace the trains upon electrification but just rip the diesel motors out and hang the overhead pole??

Is that true?

[rhino]

Jimmy I think you'll find Cruise Control is right - what would you say about rail vehicles travelling real fast but leaving you on the platform because they were full?

[jimmy_2486]

I think you have got me all wrong there rhino....I agree with cruise.

I was just pointing out that speed is not an issue cos our trains dont really run that fast.

Patronage would be an issue.

Id say to kick the grange line off heavy rail cos I never see it with more than 1 carriage running at half hour intervals at most.
Having a light rail service running at "better than go zone" intervals would be much more appreciative by the people that have to use it. Also even branch off to west lakes mall somehow.
I mean the distance it travels is prob less than the glenelg light rail line and I reckon it is just as/or more densly populated heading out to glenelg than grange.

Tonsly sholuldnt be replaced but could do with an extension down south but to areas like abefoyle park, hapy valley, woodcroft and mclaren vale etc. If it is an issue to get it upto flinders uni, then why not have it go near the medical centre cos isnt that lower ground and have a mawson lakes style loop bus?

Belair maybe could go light rail depending on how well it could climb the hill. Im not to sure about that.

Outer Harbour is touch and go cos I dont think it really gets that much patronage. I mean I dont know the exact figures but it has way less than gawler and especially noarlunga.

I dont really understand the Gawler line because if they are having patronage issues then why dont they just chuck on extra carriages cos I never see it with more than 2 carriages, even in peak?? They need to increase services and put on more cars.
But they shouldnt make that light rail as it carries too many people.

Noarlunga line is my least favored option to go light rail. The amount of commuters that use it is huge and will have buckleys chance of coping. They have like 7 services between 5-6pm leaving the city with 3-4 carriages each, carrying several thousand people all together. Even with all the services they have, people still are forced to stand.

[rhino]

Tonsly sholuldnt be replaced but could do with an extension down south but to areas like abefoyle park, hapy valley, woodcroft and mclaren vale etc.

Any ideas on how to get up and over Flagstaff Hill? Or are you thinking of an interchange and using busses to get over the hill?

[jimmy_2486]

You probably might have to have an interchange somewhere. Possibly tunnel through the hill to give the train less of a climb maybe?? That could be done couldnt it?

[rhino]

Tunnelling through the hill would not really get you anywhere, as the valley south of Flagstaff Hill is approx 160m elevation (along Happy Valley Drive near the reservoir) and approx 60m elevation at Flinders Uni. About 4.5km of tunnelling (in a straight line) will give you a 1:45 gradient - rather steep for rail vehicles to climb at speed, and you will miss out on all the Flagstaff Hill passengers who will be a few hundred metres above you as you go past them. However, a bus interchange may work, and will definately be a lot cheaper.