[U/C] M2 North-South Motorway

[AndyWelsh]

I’ve enjoyed using the 15km Marino Rocks Greenway to cycle into the city on occasion. It’s mostly new shared paths running alongside the Seaford Line, feels safe, not too many crossings to navigate and it actually almost joins up with South Road around Edwardstown.

From the train I see a decent amount of people using it, but it’s probably a bit too far for me to join them Maybe if electric push bikes get a bit cheaper.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Nort]

Oh go away troll. It represents a good opportunity to get people off the roads, so its a win win for road users too. Remember most cyclists are tax payers too (drive cars, pay income tax) so the argument that its not worth the extra money as rev has suggested is nonsense.

Can we put this one to bed? This is a forum for exchange of ideas and recently I have noticed it has become victim to keyboard warriors and trolls. That's why I don't bother posting anymore.

For the amount of use it will get compared to cost, no it's not worth it. That's why I said, perhaps government needs to start a campaign to get people riding?

I pay taxes, registration etc. If I was to buy a motorbike, I'd have to get another license and pay more.
Why should all this extra cycling infrastructure be built, and cyclists not pay extra as cyclists?

I'll tell you why cyclists aren't viewed in a positive way. Because the lycra brigade are a law unto them selves. They are the most visible cyclists on the road, and often the ones associated with and causing the most headaches by doing the wrong thing/whatever they want.

Whereas some of you think by spending tens of millions building extravagant bikeways that suddenly thousands of people will jump on push bikes. It's just not going to happen, because 1) we have a different culture here in Australia compared to Belgium, and 2) the vast majority think cyclists are dick heads thanks to your friends in lycra who do what they want.

There is an element of "use it and they will come". It is really hard to guess how many people are not riding along South Road because they don't feel safe.

We are talking about a path all the way from Darlington to Wingfield, but that doesn't mean it couldn't be used for much shorter journeys. I'm not familiar enough with the area, but can't think of any other north-south cycling routes suitable for kids, families, or casual transport between the parklands and Tapleys Hill Road.

Sure the international precedents overwhelmingly show that "build it and they will come" is a thing, and that doing so helps keep the roads better for cars that need to use them, and also in the inner west there are a lot of cyclists already, but have you considered that Australia is special and things won't work here because 'Straya?

Some people just have very provincial small town thinking and love saying no to things because they don't like them and think everyone else should live how they say.

Ultimately as someone who cycles sometimes (along with driving, walking and using public transport depending on the day) I will continue to do so in this area. There are many others in the same situation. If there is a good cycling infrastructure it will get used, and more people will join in.

If the infrastructure is made shitter for it, then it just means that more roads will have to deal with cyclists on them.

[aceman]

https://dit.sa.gov.au/__data/assets/ima ... SP_v11.jpg

no exit onto Richmond road northbound for airport access?

[Listy]

I’ve enjoyed using the 15km Marino Rocks Greenway to cycle into the city on occasion. It’s mostly new shared paths running alongside the Seaford Line, feels safe, not too many crossings to navigate and it actually almost joins up with South Road around Edwardstown.

From the train I see a decent amount of people using it, but it’s probably a bit too far for me to join them Maybe if electric push bikes get a bit cheaper.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Lots of people use those greenway shared/bike baths, and usage has increased significantly over the last 10 years as efforts have been made to link paths properly & enhance safety (ie improvements to road crossings etc).
The other morning I rode along both linear path and the Glenelg tramway bike way. Even though it was only 7-7:30am there were lots of people commuting to work by bike along both paths. At Marion Rd there was about 30-40 bikes waiting to cross at the lights - all commuters & a few school kids, no bunch rides or anything like that. Over the whole peak period, numbers would have to have been well into the thousands.
'Build it and they will come' is not quite correct. The phrase should be 'build it *usefully* and they will come'. Building crap piecemeal cycling infrastructure and then expecting it to be utilised would be like building the South Rd Motorway between Burra and Orrorro, and then acting surprised when no one commutes to work on it.

[Nathan]

I think all arguments boil down to "you get the traffic you build for".

Build big gaping highways, then you'll get more cars. Build bike infrastructure that only the lycra-clad with a death wish will ride on, then you get the lycra-clad with a death wish. Build bike infrastructure that is safe and actually connects where people want to go, then you'll get "normal" people riding bikes.

[Listy]

Sure the international precedents overwhelmingly show that "build it and they will come" is a thing, and that doing so helps keep the roads better for cars that need to use them, and also in the inner west there are a lot of cyclists already, but have you considered that Australia is special and things won't work here because 'Straya?

Australian cities are not European, but parts are similar enough. Melbourne's inner suburbs are reaching 20-30% for cycling as the primary modality for getting about. That's similar to a lot of European cities. If we achieved that for the inner suburbs in Adelaide, then you're looking at 50-100,000 less cars during the peak period. Ever noticed how much smoother and quicker traffic flows during peak times in the school holidays? That's what removing all those cars would be like, every single day.

Of course, 5-ish km (perhaps up to 10km) is the furthest most people consider reasonable for 'utility' cycling (even in Europe) & a lot of people live a lot further away from their workplace than that. Cars will still dominate in big parts of Australian cities, but even if you are driving into or near the CBD from further out, you'll still benefit if a big chunk of people in Goodwood or Thebarton etc are on a bike path instead of joining the general flow of car traffic. It's also worth noting that South Rd is only ~1km from the edge of the CBD between Kurralta Park and Torrensville / Thebarton. That's well and truly within the inner 5km ring of suburbs where cycling can become a big part of our transport networks, and that's why there are big opportunities if this bit of South Rd is upgraded appropriately

[Stryker]

https://dit.sa.gov.au/__data/assets/ima ... SP_v11.jpg

no exit onto Richmond road northbound for airport access?

Yeah that's what I noticed! Where's this so called, "Airport Link"?

[aceman]

https://dit.sa.gov.au/__data/assets/ima ... SP_v11.jpg

no exit onto Richmond road northbound for airport access?

Yeah that's what I noticed! Where's this so called, "Airport Link"?

the only airport link that I can see northbound is near the tram overpass where you can either go left onto anzac highway or straight across anzac highway and continue on the south surface road then Richmond road or sir don bradman drive.

[muzzamo]

"airport link" seems to be an internal concept that was descoped and never supposed to be made public.

[Stryker]

https://dit.sa.gov.au/__data/assets/ima ... SP_v11.jpg

no exit onto Richmond road northbound for airport access?

Yeah that's what I noticed! Where's this so called, "Airport Link"?

the only airport link that I can see northbound is near the tram overpass where you can either go left onto anzac highway or straight across anzac highway and continue on the south surface road then Richmond road or sir don bradman drive.

That's what I was thinking Aceman. Not really what I imagined it to be though.

[rev]

There is an element of "use it and they will come". It is really hard to guess how many people are not riding along South Road because they don't feel safe.

You actually think that the majority of people don't ride a bike because they don't feel safe? Sounds more like you're projecting your opinion on the matter rather then looking at things objectively.

Again, like the whole detached dwelling vs apartment argument, you guys are projecting your opinions. The majority hold a different view/opinion.

What could change and get more people riding bikes in general? An actual campaign that spruiks the health benefits for example.

The "lycra brigade" you keep harping on about can ride on the road and occupy a lane of traffic just like every other single-occupant passenger vehicle. It's these other groups of cyclists who need better infrastructure.

Again, you're highlighting the issues I keep "harping" on about with the lycra brigade.

No, they can't occupy a lane of traffic.

Can only ride 2 abreast, and no more then 1.5m.
Can not ride abreast outside of bike lanes.
And if there's a marked bike lane, cyclists have to use the bike lane.

[SBD]

There is an element of "use it and they will come". It is really hard to guess how many people are not riding along South Road because they don't feel safe.

You actually think that the majority of people don't ride a bike because they don't feel safe? Sounds more like you're projecting your opinion on the matter rather then looking at things objectively.

Again, like the whole detached dwelling vs apartment argument, you guys are projecting your opinions. The majority hold a different view/opinion.

What could change and get more people riding bikes in general? An actual campaign that spruiks the health benefits for example.

You are also projecting your opinion. It doesn't matter how many people are driving cars who would continue to drive their cars no matter what bike infrastructure was available.

The point is that there are some people who would consider cycling instead of driving, but think that cycling is too dangerous. You appear to think this group is very small. Some others have hinted that they think it is a significant number. I don't know, and noted that it is very hard to count how many people are not riding along South Road because they don't feel safe. The ones who are not riding now are this hard-to-count group plus all of the other people in cars who would continue to be in cars. If high-quality, safe infrastructure was provided, some people would start using it straight away, and over time, more would start to use it, either because they see their neighbours and friends using it so decide to try it, or because as people move in and out, people more inclined to use it will value the houses near their preferred environment.

The "lycra brigade" you keep harping on about can ride on the road and occupy a lane of traffic just like every other single-occupant passenger vehicle. It's these other groups of cyclists who need better infrastructure.

Again, you're highlighting the issues I keep "harping" on about with the lycra brigade.

No, they can't occupy a lane of traffic.

Can only ride 2 abreast, and no more then 1.5m.
Can not ride abreast outside of bike lanes.
And if there's a marked bike lane, cyclists have to use the bike lane.

On my former commute by bike that you critiqued earlier, I (as a solo cyclist, so not abreast of anyone) occupied the lane of traffic in areas where I needed to, such as queued for a roundabout. I guess you're right, I didn't have to occupy a lane of traffic, I would have been legal to overtake on the left all of the stopped cars, and ride through the roundabout before them.

The bike lane began after the last roundabout, and I used it to get to the front of the traffic light queue as the bike lane continued the other side of the lights.

Your last point is incomplete: Cycling & the Law says on Page 13: If you are riding on a road with a bicycle lane, you must ride in the bicycle lane. You may move out of the bicycle lane to avoid debris, potholes, or to safely overtake another bicycle rider.

[Llessur2002]

Also worth bearing in mind that many bike lanes in Adelaide are only operational during certain hours on certain days.

[Nathan]

What could change and get more people riding bikes in general? An actual campaign that spruiks the health benefits for example.

Except we have councillors who express specifically not doing that.

Khera, aligned with the Team Adelaide majority voting bloc, also told the chamber it would be a “dangerous path” for the council to recommend the health benefits of cycling, likening it to “social engineering”.

“If we’re putting out messaging that — what we’re doing is we want to shunt you off your car and put you on a bike because that’s good for you… It really has an echo of Stalinist, kind of, Orwellian, ‘We’re going to whip you onto the bike and make you exercise’, kind of stuff,” he said.

[SBD]

What could change and get more people riding bikes in general? An actual campaign that spruiks the health benefits for example.

Except we have councillors who express specifically not doing that.

Khera, aligned with the Team Adelaide majority voting bloc, also told the chamber it would be a “dangerous path” for the council to recommend the health benefits of cycling, likening it to “social engineering”.

“If we’re putting out messaging that — what we’re doing is we want to shunt you off your car and put you on a bike because that’s good for you… It really has an echo of Stalinist, kind of, Orwellian, ‘We’re going to whip you onto the bike and make you exercise’, kind of stuff,” he said.

Sounds like the people who complain about having to walk from the back of the carpark to go to the gym