News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

[PeFe]

I am not sure this is value for money... I think I would rather see the money spent on general network improvements like station upgraded etc.

[whatstheirnamesmom]

I wonder how NRM will feel, considering they’ve only recently had DIT rip up the rails for the first scuttling of this project. And now they may go back in again!

I think the project is a good idea if executed well. The Port lacks a solid connection and needs one to continue with general revitalisation

[VLtom]

Very excited to see this one back on the agenda. Port Adelaide is still very disconnected from the rail network, the Port Dock spur will make access to historic Port Adelaide easier and connect whatever that housing development is called.

Assuming this the plan from 2018 will be retained, the train should run every 20 minutes peak, 30 minutes all other times. Same frequency as the Flinders Line. The Outer Harbour line already has some very good peak service all things considered but this should allow more trains to operate on the inner section, although acknowledging the opening of this station will probably cause some of the Glanville terminators to run to Port Dock instead, or alternatively less capacity sucking express movements from Port to City.

Off peak will be a simple matter, and it should integrate seamlessly with the current OH/Grange timetable. Providing a train every 15 at Alberton and St. Clair station as well, and making the inner section a train alternating between every 7.5 and 15 minutes. Unless of course you do interpeak expresses for OH between Adelaide-Woodville. Could also mean a train reliably every 15 minutes Adelaide-Alberton till 11pm fingers crossed. Lots of assumptions I've made there but given past planning reckon it's not too optimistic about what the service pattern would be.

[A-Town]

This will be a great addition for the Port and fits in nicely with all the new housing going up in the area. Get it done.

[ChillyPhilly]

I wonder how NRM will feel, considering they’ve only recently had DIT rip up the rails for the first scuttling of this project. And now they may go back in again!

I think the project is a good idea if executed well. The Port lacks a solid connection and needs one to continue with general revitalisation

I thought the line was reconnected, but I could be wrong.

[Spotto]

I wonder how NRM will feel, considering they’ve only recently had DIT rip up the rails for the first scuttling of this project. And now they may go back in again!

I think the project is a good idea if executed well. The Port lacks a solid connection and needs one to continue with general revitalisation

I thought the line was reconnected, but I could be wrong.

"The Port lacks a solid connection" was referring to transport connections, the physical tracks were reconnected when the line was rebuilt after the original project was torn up.

[ChillyPhilly]

I wonder how NRM will feel, considering they’ve only recently had DIT rip up the rails for the first scuttling of this project. And now they may go back in again!

I think the project is a good idea if executed well. The Port lacks a solid connection and needs one to continue with general revitalisation

I thought the line was reconnected, but I could be wrong.

"The Port lacks a solid connection" was referring to transport connections, the physical tracks were reconnected when the line was rebuilt after the original project was torn up.

I understood the 'solid connections' part, but was more thinking of the NRM spur. Glad it is still connected for now.

[aaronjameslange]

I thought the line was reconnected, but I could be wrong.

"The Port lacks a solid connection" was referring to transport connections, the physical tracks were reconnected when the line was rebuilt after the original project was torn up.

I understood the 'solid connections' part, but was more thinking of the NRM spur. Glad it is still connected for now.

NRM is still connected to OH Mainline, some sections have been ripped up when the rosewater line was closed however

[[Shuz]]

Is the Rosewater corridor still intact between Port Dock and Dry Creek (bar some missing track pieces)?

[PD2/20]

Is the Rosewater corridor still intact between Port Dock and Dry Creek (bar some missing track pieces)?

Standard gauge only Dry Creek to Eastern Avenue, dual gauge to E of Rosewater Jn (OH line/NRM spur), broad guage only at Rosewater Jn.

[whatstheirnamesmom]

I wonder how NRM will feel, considering they’ve only recently had DIT rip up the rails for the first scuttling of this project. And now they may go back in again!

I think the project is a good idea if executed well. The Port lacks a solid connection and needs one to continue with general revitalisation

My bad to those who quoted me — I meant to say that DIT had just reconnected the rails and now they'll be ripped out again, got it mixed around.


Have been thinking some more about this project over the weekend and now I am not so convinced it is wise spending, given the missed opportunity for something better. Former senior transport planner (and author of Adelaide's Public Transport - The First 180 Years) Tom Wilson had this to say on Joe Szakacs MP's announcement on Facebook, and I am inclined to agree with him:

Joe, as a public transport planner for almost 40 years, I believe that this proposal to split the Outer Harbor train service prior to the Port Centre goes against sensible public transport planning principles.. You don’t split services prior to major centres, you do so either at or after the centre. The proposal means that train services from the City to Port Adelaide will be split, resulting in a poor level of service to the two stations in the Port.

The proposal will do nothing for people living on the LeFevre Peninsula - the main trade area for the Port Centre.

The ideal solution is, as part of the proposed electrification of the Port Lines, to convert the lines between Bowden and Grand Junction Road to light rail (tram), then to run the new tramline through the Port Centre along Commercial Rd and St Vincent St., rejoining the railway at Glanville Station. This would thus provide good access to the Port Centre both from LeFevre Peninsula as well as from inner suburbs. In the City, the trams could run on city streets on existing tramlines, (from the Entertainment Centre), thus carrying people right into the CBD., rather than dumping them at Adelaide Station which is right on the edge of the CBD.

A number of other cities have carried out such conversions. The St Kilda and Port Melbourne. Railways were converted to tramlines some years ago, vastly improving access into the Melbourne CBD. In Manchester, a large tram network has been developed since the 1990s, with some of the new tramlines replacing old railway lines which terminated on the edge of the City, while the new tramlines run through the CBD. Patronage on those lines increased significantly, just like it would on the Port Lines if they were so converted.

Trams would also be better suited to branch lines from the Outer Harbor Line, e.g: Grange (which could be extended on street to Grange Jetty (like the Glenelg line); West Lakes (along West Lakes Blvd); and Semaphore (along Semaphore Road.)

The above proposal needs to be seriously considered before electrification, and certainly before wasting money on a useless rail branch into Port Dock- a branch line that was always very poorly patronised ever since the main line was diverted over the viaduct in 1916.

[[Shuz]]

Terrible idea. Trams would run so much slower on the OH line than trains, by upwards of another half an hour on the journey from Port Adelaide beyond. Try selling that to the electoratez, and I would bet good money, despite it being a hard safe Labor electorate that it would very likely turn marginal if not Liberal. People will not stand for it whatsoever. You're better off duplicating the service down Port Road than replacing the train line, as ridiculous as a duplication sounds but at least one would get the best of both worlds.

[rubberman]

Terrible idea. Trams would run so much slower on the OH line than trains, by upwards of another half an hour on the journey from Port Adelaide beyond. Try selling that to the electoratez, and I would bet good money, despite it being a hard safe Labor electorate that it would very likely turn marginal if not Liberal. People will not stand for it whatsoever. You're better off duplicating the service down Port Road than replacing the train line, as ridiculous as a duplication sounds but at least one would get the best of both worlds.

Well, Tom does have 40 years experience as a professional transport planner. As for trams taking an extra half an hour? That's only if you deliberately run them slow to prove a point. Further, that's not the experience on the Port Melbourne and St Kilda heavy to light rail conversions in Melbourne, or in the Glenelg line conversioneither. It certainly was positive, electorally speaking, except for heavy railfans.

[[Shuz]]

In case you hadn't noticed our trams ARE already run deliberately slow. I mean, 50 minutes to fucking Glenelg is a joke. Even just getting from one side of the city to the other. Multiple people have tried and tested to see if walking is faster and on some occasions it is.

[PeFe]

So this plan/vision for the Outer Harbor line turns a heavy rail line into 4 light rail lines using the main corridor. Trams to Grange, West Lakes, Semaphore and Outer Harbor.

So how would this work ie frequency of service.....trams every 30 minutes from each destination? Nope not very attractive at all......maybe trams every 15 minutes.....well that puts a tram on the main section of the corridor city-Woodville every 3.75 minutes. There is no passing corridor of course so there will be no express trams. Hope there are no breakdowns.......And where are all these new trams going once they hit the CBD? South Terrace? Botanic Gardens? The Adelaide CBD will be full of empty returning trams.....

And how much would all this cost? Rebuilt main track, rewired, new tram stops/stations, an additional 8-10kms of track, 20 more trams to service this new network.....
1 billion? 1.5 billion?? 2 billion???

So say I am a commuter who lives in Exeter and catches the 8.20am train to get to my CBD job by 9am, how will this affect me?
Well now I probably need to get the 8am tram on Semaphore Rd that will journey through the Port Adelaide CBD (adding another 8 minutes) and then at the other end the tram enters the road system at Bowden and crawls into the CBD (you can add another 12 minutes there)

Meanwhile back in the real world.........