SA Economy

[SBD]

The latest Commsec State Of The States economic rankings have been released and S.A has slipped to equal fifth with the ACT.

I find that result a bit odd as South Australia has topped the rankings for both dwelling starts and construction work done, we have not
once topped even one of the categories in my memory of this report. Anyways

https://www.commsec.com.au/content/dam/ ... il2022.pdf

Despite the Premier telling us that it will all be fine and the hospitals can cope, a lot of us don't want to get COVID, so we are not crowding in to bars, cafes and concerts where we have the opportunity to breathe other people's bugs. The enthusiasm of removing the restrictions (density, isolation of close contacts, longer exposure time to become "close", wearing masks) on potentially infectious people means the more cautious of us are choosing to stay home and safe.

In 2020-2021, I didn't know anyone close who actually caught COVID. This year there have been several weekends where I have known several people who got it (five at Easter in three places). Why would I want to join them?

[rev]

The latest Commsec State Of The States economic rankings have been released and S.A has slipped to equal fifth with the ACT.

I find that result a bit odd as South Australia has topped the rankings for both dwelling starts and construction work done, we have not
once topped even one of the categories in my memory of this report. Anyways

https://www.commsec.com.au/content/dam/ ... il2022.pdf

Despite the Premier telling us that it will all be fine and the hospitals can cope, a lot of us don't want to get COVID, so we are not crowding in to bars, cafes and concerts where we have the opportunity to breathe other people's bugs. The enthusiasm of removing the restrictions (density, isolation of close contacts, longer exposure time to become "close", wearing masks) on potentially infectious people means the more cautious of us are choosing to stay home and safe.

In 2020-2021, I didn't know anyone close who actually caught COVID. This year there have been several weekends where I have known several people who got it (five at Easter in three places). Why would I want to join them?

You'd be one of the smaller and smaller minority whose still paranoid about covid and hiding away in your house then.
Oooooh no, the covid boogeyman is going to get me if I leave my house

[gnrc_louis]

The latest Commsec State Of The States economic rankings have been released and S.A has slipped to equal fifth with the ACT.

I find that result a bit odd as South Australia has topped the rankings for both dwelling starts and construction work done, we have not
once topped even one of the categories in my memory of this report. Anyways

https://www.commsec.com.au/content/dam/ ... il2022.pdf

Despite the Premier telling us that it will all be fine and the hospitals can cope, a lot of us don't want to get COVID, so we are not crowding in to bars, cafes and concerts where we have the opportunity to breathe other people's bugs. The enthusiasm of removing the restrictions (density, isolation of close contacts, longer exposure time to become "close", wearing masks) on potentially infectious people means the more cautious of us are choosing to stay home and safe.

In 2020-2021, I didn't know anyone close who actually caught COVID. This year there have been several weekends where I have known several people who got it (five at Easter in three places). Why would I want to join them?

You'd be one of the smaller and smaller minority whose still paranoid about covid and hiding away in your house then.
Oooooh no, the covid boogeyman is going to get me if I leave my house

I think it's pretty rational to want to avoid catching Covid, particularly for people with preexisting health conditions etc. While I've been living my life pretty normally, I don't think those that aren't should be shamed and ridiculed.

The prospect of getting Covid and that potentially turning into long-Covid definitely concerns me, and if the latter were to happen it would completely fuck up my current lifestyle.

[SBD]

The latest Commsec State Of The States economic rankings have been released and S.A has slipped to equal fifth with the ACT.

I find that result a bit odd as South Australia has topped the rankings for both dwelling starts and construction work done, we have not
once topped even one of the categories in my memory of this report. Anyways

https://www.commsec.com.au/content/dam/ ... il2022.pdf

Despite the Premier telling us that it will all be fine and the hospitals can cope, a lot of us don't want to get COVID, so we are not crowding in to bars, cafes and concerts where we have the opportunity to breathe other people's bugs. The enthusiasm of removing the restrictions (density, isolation of close contacts, longer exposure time to become "close", wearing masks) on potentially infectious people means the more cautious of us are choosing to stay home and safe.

In 2020-2021, I didn't know anyone close who actually caught COVID. This year there have been several weekends where I have known several people who got it (five at Easter in three places). Why would I want to join them?

You'd be one of the smaller and smaller minority whose still paranoid about covid and hiding away in your house then.
Oooooh no, the covid boogeyman is going to get me if I leave my house

Yes, I am one of that small group. I am treated for an auto-immune disease by killing off part of my immune system. That means that despite four doses of vaccine so far, I may have a much lower immunity to it than most people. My condition is not expected to shorten my life despite some mobility disability. I ended up in hospital with pneumonia several years ago (before my condition was diagnosed), and have discovered that even a slight fever renders me completely incapacitated.

I do not understand why so many people accept "living with" a disease that is killing five South Australians each day, and think we should remove protective restrictions.Would you call to remove speed limits or blood alcohol limits, yet far less people are killed in vehicle crashes?

[rev]

Despite the Premier telling us that it will all be fine and the hospitals can cope, a lot of us don't want to get COVID, so we are not crowding in to bars, cafes and concerts where we have the opportunity to breathe other people's bugs. The enthusiasm of removing the restrictions (density, isolation of close contacts, longer exposure time to become "close", wearing masks) on potentially infectious people means the more cautious of us are choosing to stay home and safe.

In 2020-2021, I didn't know anyone close who actually caught COVID. This year there have been several weekends where I have known several people who got it (five at Easter in three places). Why would I want to join them?

You'd be one of the smaller and smaller minority whose still paranoid about covid and hiding away in your house then.
Oooooh no, the covid boogeyman is going to get me if I leave my house

I think it's pretty rational to want to avoid catching Covid, particularly for people with preexisting health conditions etc. While I've been living my life pretty normally, I don't think those that aren't should be shamed and ridiculed.

The prospect of getting Covid and that potentially turning into long-Covid definitely concerns me, and if the latter were to happen it would completely fuck up my current lifestyle.

Well I wasn't trying to shame or ridicule SBD, not like I knew his situation. But I don't think anyone should be shamed, ridiculed, or miss out on work or anything, whether they want to avoid catching it, or whether they've chosen not to get the jabs. It should be a personal choice purely, without any coercion.
Your decision to get jabbed or not, or decision to take extra precautions like wearing a mask in public when you don't have to, or not, is your choice and that should be respected.

The majority of the population though will cope fine, and have been.

We need to learn to live with it as a society.
Cant keep everyone locked up, or "living" with ridiculous restrictions and forcing everyone to walk around with ineffective masks. Or putting restrictions on then off then on etc.

[Will]

Rev, what qualifications do you have in the fields of public health, epidemiology, or even health or science to suggest that the restrictions that were in place are ridiculous or masks ineffective?

Multiple peer reviewed studies have proven beyond a doubt that masks and social distancing restrictions work.

Please provide your sources.

[SBD]

I find it interesting that at 3-5 deaths per day from COVID, the loud voices want all restrictions removed to "just live with it" and leave it up to people to make their own choices.

At 2-3 deaths PER WEEK from road crashes, we have restrictions on speed, blood alcohol content and seat belt and mobile phone use. Why is it not left to my discretion about how much risk I am comfortable with on what speed I choose to drive and how much I drink first?

I can choose to wear a mask, not go to crowded pubs, wear a seatbelt and slow down around blind corners to protect myself. Mandated mask wearing, close contact isolation and maximum speed limits through school zones are to protect other people.

[rev]

Rev, what qualifications do you have in the fields of public health, epidemiology, or even health or science to suggest that the restrictions that were in place are ridiculous or masks ineffective?

Multiple peer reviewed studies have proven beyond a doubt that masks and social distancing restrictions work.

Please provide your sources.

Nope, not going to play this game.
There is plenty of studies to support both ends.
Unfortunately politics took over and it went the way it did.

I'm not going to sit here comparing notes. You know as well as I do, that no matter how well intentioned our posts may be, how its going to end when the usual people who always have to jump in to oppose a post I've made.

[rev]

I find it interesting that at 3-5 deaths per day from COVID, the loud voices want all restrictions removed to "just live with it" and leave it up to people to make their own choices.

At 2-3 deaths PER WEEK from road crashes, we have restrictions on speed, blood alcohol content and seat belt and mobile phone use. Why is it not left to my discretion about how much risk I am comfortable with on what speed I choose to drive and how much I drink first?

I can choose to wear a mask, not go to crowded pubs, wear a seatbelt and slow down around blind corners to protect myself. Mandated mask wearing, close contact isolation and maximum speed limits through school zones are to protect other people.

Theyre not dying from covid, they're dying WITH covid.
Covid didn't necessarily kill them.

Comparing road rules to shutting down the economy is silly.
Speed limits are nothing like restricting people's rights and freedoms.

[bits]

I find it interesting that at 3-5 deaths per day from COVID

That is basically on track with flu deaths which humans have long term accepted will happen.

We have rollercoasters, sky diving etc because humans accept some risk and that some will die while the majority enjoy living.

Also I believe the masks and social distancing is only about slowing the curve to stop a swamping of the hospitals. And not at all about stopping someone from getting covid.
We were in masks and getting 4000 cases a day.
Everyone will be exposed to covid over and over, masks are not going to stop that.

[Will]

Rev, what qualifications do you have in the fields of public health, epidemiology, or even health or science to suggest that the restrictions that were in place are ridiculous or masks ineffective?

Multiple peer reviewed studies have proven beyond a doubt that masks and social distancing restrictions work.

Please provide your sources.

Nope, not going to play this game.
There is plenty of studies to support both ends.
Unfortunately politics took over and it went the way it did.

I'm not going to sit here comparing notes. You know as well as I do, that no matter how well intentioned our posts may be, how its going to end when the usual people who always have to jump in to oppose a post I've made.

Rev, I'm not playing a game. I am a scientist and doctor. Science deals with facts and realities. It doesn't care about your feelings, religious persuasions or political leanings.

You have made some allegations which are simply not true. You say that "there are plenty of studies to support both ends". This is not true. The overwhelming scientific consensus worldwide is that social distancing and masks work.

The burden of proof in a discussion is summated as follows on wikipedia:

When two parties are in a discussion and one makes a claim that the other disputes, the one who makes the claim typically has a burden of proof to justify or substantiate that claim especially when it challenges a perceived status quo.[1] This is also stated in Hitchens's razor, which declares that "what may be asserted without evidence, may be dismissed without evidence."

You have made several allegations, including the one where you claim people "die WITH covid and not from it". Not only is this a slap in the face of frontline workers such as myself whom have actually tended to covid positive patients, it also goes against the worldwide scientific and medical consensus. Thus, the onus is on you to provide your qualifications and sources to back up your claims. Otherwise, I, and others can simply dismiss them.

[Will]

I find it interesting that at 3-5 deaths per day from COVID

That is basically on track with flu deaths which humans have long term accepted will happen.

We have rollercoasters, sky diving etc because humans accept some risk and that some will die while the majority enjoy living.

Also I believe the masks and social distancing is only about slowing the curve to stop a swamping of the hospitals. And not at all about stopping someone from getting covid.
We were in masks and getting 4000 cases a day.
Everyone will be exposed to covid over and over, masks are not going to stop that.

When worn properly, masks reduce the risk of spreading and catching respiratory illnesses, including covid. They are not infallible, but they, along with other measures help slow the curve. It is like seatbelts and airbags. They can't guarantee you wont die in a crash, but I'd rather be in a car with them, than without.

Furthermore, most cases of transmission occur in children who don't wear masks, but also in household units where masks are also not worn.

[bits]

When worn properly, masks reduce the risk of spreading and catching respiratory illnesses, including covid. They are not infallible, but they, along with other measures help slow the curve. It is like seatbelts and airbags. They can't guarantee you wont die in a crash, but I'd rather be in a car with them, than without.

Are you advocating humans should wear masks whenever interacting forever?

Btw I agree masks reduce spread but I believe that only delays things it does not prevent you from being exposed again and again.

[Will]

When worn properly, masks reduce the risk of spreading and catching respiratory illnesses, including covid. They are not infallible, but they, along with other measures help slow the curve. It is like seatbelts and airbags. They can't guarantee you wont die in a crash, but I'd rather be in a car with them, than without.

Are you advocating humans should wear masks whenever interacting forever?

Yes, masks should continue to be worn in certain high-risk settings, such as hospitals, nursing homes, doctor's clinics, airplanes.

In other places, people should not be ridiculed if they choose to wear a mask.

Masks have helped reduce the burden of respiratory illnesses over the past 2 years. I think this has been a silver lining of the pandemic.

By the way, I think we are saying the same thing. Masks reduce spread and contagion, however, they are not infallible. Thus, as time progresses, and one continues to interact with other humans, eventually we will all be exposed. All, I'm saying is that we shouldn't ditch them, just because we can.

[SBD]

I find it interesting that at 3-5 deaths per day from COVID

That is basically on track with flu deaths which humans have long term accepted will happen.

We have rollercoasters, sky diving etc because humans accept some risk and that some will die while the majority enjoy living.

Also I believe the masks and social distancing is only about slowing the curve to stop a swamping of the hospitals. And not at all about stopping someone from getting covid.
We were in masks and getting 4000 cases a day.
Everyone will be exposed to covid over and over, masks are not going to stop that.

We are currently seeing 3-5 deaths per day of/with COVID-19 in South Australia (over 300 in the first 4 months of this year). The worst flu year recently was 1181 deaths across all of Australia in 2017, followed by 902 in 2019.( https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/clinic ... ast-12-mon ) Road deaths those years were 1221 and 1195 across the whole country. ( https://www.roadsafety.gov.au/performan ... -road-user )

Undoubtedly there will be a few who die of something else but with COVID. The regular refactoring of the data I assume means the continuing numbers reflect those for whom COVID was a contributing factor. Someone who dies with COVID in a car crash probably did not die of COVID. If the "other" condition is diabetes, multiple sclerosis, hypertension, depression etc that is managed and not expected to (on its own) significantly alter a person's life expectancy, then it is fair to say they died "of" COVID the same as if they had no other significant conditions.

Very few people die in Australia of roller coasters and skydiving, and even less who had not made their own choice to take the risk (eg a pedestrian being hit by a skydiver is far less common than being hit by a car or truck, or infected by an unmasked covid-carrier)