SA Economy

[bits]

Yes, masks should continue to be worn in certain high-risk settings, such as hospitals, nursing homes, doctor's clinics, airplanes.

I hope when I am in of need assistance I will be able to enjoy seeing the faces of other humans including my families. Being deprived of faces for the entire end of my life, potentially for many many years, sounds like some kind of horrible nightmare.

[SBD]

When worn properly, masks reduce the risk of spreading and catching respiratory illnesses, including covid. They are not infallible, but they, along with other measures help slow the curve. It is like seatbelts and airbags. They can't guarantee you wont die in a crash, but I'd rather be in a car with them, than without.

Are you advocating humans should wear masks whenever interacting forever?

Btw I agree masks reduce spread but I believe that only delays things it does not prevent you from being exposed again and again.

We successfully managed outbreaks for almost two years.

If SA and WA weren't sucked in by "let it rip" at just the same moment Omicron emerged, we might still be able to do that. There are a bunch of other biosecurity threats that are managed as outbreaks (various diseases, fruitflies). Vaccines reduce the severity of infection in most people, but it's still sometimes serious or fatal anyway. Vaccines, masks and limiting mixing and travel limit the spread of the outbreak to enable it to be narrowed and controlled.

If there are 6000 people wandering round in the community today able to spread COVID but don't know it yet, then I am a hundred times as likely to be exposed as if there were only 60 people.

[bits]

If SA and WA weren't sucked in by "let it rip" at just the same moment Omicron emerged, we might still be able to do that. There are a bunch of other biosecurity threats that are managed as outbreaks (various diseases, fruitflies).

Under your rule we would still have border restrictions, Medi hotels and 2 week quarantine?
Pubs and gyms would still be closed?

Would your restrictions ever end or is that just life now?

More people have high level covid vaccination, many just completed 3 doses back to back, since the start of this year than will ever have it again.

What would you have done if you were in charge?

[Nort]

We had to let it spread eventually unfortunately, however the big failure of the previous state government was doing that too early.

They reduced restrictions and let Covid in, then had to quickly reintroduce restrictions over the holiday period to deal with the consequences of that, in what was transparently a case of them trying to set a political deadline to help them in the coming election over health advice.

We couldn't keep borders closed forever, or require weeks of quarantine indefinitely, and without those measures it was inevitable to get spread of community cases. And once you have significant numbers of cases in the community it's impossible to put the genie back in the bottle without more lockdowns that the general public would not have accepted once high vaccination rates were reached.

[SBD]

If SA and WA weren't sucked in by "let it rip" at just the same moment Omicron emerged, we might still be able to do that. There are a bunch of other biosecurity threats that are managed as outbreaks (various diseases, fruitflies).

Under your rule we would still have border restrictions, Medi hotels and 2 week quarantine?
Pubs and gyms would still be closed?

Would your restrictions ever end or is that just life now?

More people have high level covid vaccination, many just completed 3 doses back to back, since the start of this year than will ever have it again.

What would you have done if you were in charge?

I don't know what I would have done, I wasn't in exactly the position of the decision makers. From the outside, it looked like the border should have closed again when Omicron became obvious a few days after the border opened, but that was politically unpalatable. The month before the border opened, I thought I heard something about "controlled movement" allowing for people to move into SA easier from "low risk" LGAs than from "high risk" ones. Then when it opened, that distinction seemed to have been lost, even though NSW was publicly saying "We're all going to get it so stop trying not to", and it seemed most of NSW was becoming High Risk.

IF we kept (or can return) to only a few tens of cases per day, then it is possible to return to locking down close contacts for a week without killing the economy. This is how fruit fly outbreaks are managed. Fruit is not allowed to move out of outbreak areas.

[bits]

They reduced restrictions and let Covid in, then had to quickly reintroduce restrictions over the holiday period to deal with the consequences of that, in what was transparently a case of them trying to set a political deadline to help them in the coming election over health advice.

Open the gate a bit, see what happens, adjust, repeat.
I don't see a better path.
Start of the christmas holidays at peak vaccination status sounds like the best time to start the opening. Offices closed and school closed.

I think every decision and timing was deliberate and well planned.

[rubberman]

They reduced restrictions and let Covid in, then had to quickly reintroduce restrictions over the holiday period to deal with the consequences of that, in what was transparently a case of them trying to set a political deadline to help them in the coming election over health advice.

Open the gate a bit, see what happens, adjust, repeat.
I don't see a better path.
Start of the christmas holidays at peak vaccination status sounds like the best time to start the opening. Offices closed and school closed.

I think every decision and timing was deliberate and well planned.

Except for the fact that the recent situation in NSW was a problem, to say the least. People could see what was happening there. It was not pretty. Further, it looked like the NSW Premier was acting on instruction from Scomo.

Mr Marshall could have cited the NSW situation, thus distancing himself from the NSW situation and Scomo, and use that as a platform for urging people to get their third doses and giving a month for that to happen.

But that was his decision. He opened up while NSW was in the news. He made a political calculation that opening before Christmas was a better idea.

[rev]

Rev, what qualifications do you have in the fields of public health, epidemiology, or even health or science to suggest that the restrictions that were in place are ridiculous or masks ineffective?

Multiple peer reviewed studies have proven beyond a doubt that masks and social distancing restrictions work.

Please provide your sources.

Nope, not going to play this game.
There is plenty of studies to support both ends.
Unfortunately politics took over and it went the way it did.

I'm not going to sit here comparing notes. You know as well as I do, that no matter how well intentioned our posts may be, how its going to end when the usual people who always have to jump in to oppose a post I've made.

Rev, I'm not playing a game. I am a scientist and doctor. Science deals with facts and realities. It doesn't care about your feelings, religious persuasions or political leanings.

You have made some allegations which are simply not true. You say that "there are plenty of studies to support both ends". This is not true. The overwhelming scientific consensus worldwide is that social distancing and masks work.

The burden of proof in a discussion is summated as follows on wikipedia:

When two parties are in a discussion and one makes a claim that the other disputes, the one who makes the claim typically has a burden of proof to justify or substantiate that claim especially when it challenges a perceived status quo.[1] This is also stated in Hitchens's razor, which declares that "what may be asserted without evidence, may be dismissed without evidence."

You have made several allegations, including the one where you claim people "die WITH covid and not from it". Not only is this a slap in the face of frontline workers such as myself whom have actually tended to covid positive patients, it also goes against the worldwide scientific and medical consensus. Thus, the onus is on you to provide your qualifications and sources to back up your claims. Otherwise, I, and others can simply dismiss them.

I was pointing out what the media is now reporting as opposed to what it was reporting. I was pointing out the campaign of fear they were running, I was not making a statement on what people died with or from.

It has nothing to do with my political persuasions, my feelings or religious beliefs. But that's a nice way to try and discredit someone. Really didn't expect that from you, but I guess when AHPRA has their boot on your neck...

You're assuming what the other end is. I'll let you keep doing that, because I'm not going to engage in this game of back and forth. Because when I do, you mods treat me like I've done something wrong while the other parties are still to this day being shit heads trying to provoke me.

As a scientist and doctor you should be open to all possibilities and all facts, not just the ones that support the current narrative of restrictions, lockdowns and mandates.

Let's leave it at that, don't want to get you in trouble with your bosses at AHPRA.

[rev]

The South Australian economy struggles on a good day.

Opening up the state again was a good thing. Especially with Omicron.


South Australian can not afford to stay locked down with its borders closed.


It is insanity to lock down the healthy, and destroy economies and small businesses in particular.

[Will]

Nope, not going to play this game.
There is plenty of studies to support both ends.
Unfortunately politics took over and it went the way it did.

I'm not going to sit here comparing notes. You know as well as I do, that no matter how well intentioned our posts may be, how its going to end when the usual people who always have to jump in to oppose a post I've made.

Rev, I'm not playing a game. I am a scientist and doctor. Science deals with facts and realities. It doesn't care about your feelings, religious persuasions or political leanings.

You have made some allegations which are simply not true. You say that "there are plenty of studies to support both ends". This is not true. The overwhelming scientific consensus worldwide is that social distancing and masks work.

The burden of proof in a discussion is summated as follows on wikipedia:

When two parties are in a discussion and one makes a claim that the other disputes, the one who makes the claim typically has a burden of proof to justify or substantiate that claim especially when it challenges a perceived status quo.[1] This is also stated in Hitchens's razor, which declares that "what may be asserted without evidence, may be dismissed without evidence."

You have made several allegations, including the one where you claim people "die WITH covid and not from it". Not only is this a slap in the face of frontline workers such as myself whom have actually tended to covid positive patients, it also goes against the worldwide scientific and medical consensus. Thus, the onus is on you to provide your qualifications and sources to back up your claims. Otherwise, I, and others can simply dismiss them.

I was pointing out what the media is now reporting as opposed to what it was reporting. I was pointing out the campaign of fear they were running, I was not making a statement on what people died with or from.

It has nothing to do with my political persuasions, my feelings or religious beliefs. But that's a nice way to try and discredit someone. Really didn't expect that from you, but I guess when AHPRA has their boot on your neck...

You're assuming what the other end is. I'll let you keep doing that, because I'm not going to engage in this game of back and forth. Because when I do, you mods treat me like I've done something wrong while the other parties are still to this day being shit heads trying to provoke me.

As a scientist and doctor you should be open to all possibilities and all facts, not just the ones that support the current narrative of restrictions, lockdowns and mandates.

Let's leave it at that, don't want to get you in trouble with your bosses at AHPRA.

Rev, what a sad and pathetic response. All I asked was for you to provide evidence to back up your assertions. You have failed to do so. Instead you have gone on the personal attack. How can anyone treat you seriously? You are like all anti-vaxxers. Attack when your belief system is questioned. Just like a fascist. Enjoy your arrogant ignorance.

p.s. to suggest I’m part of some global conspiracy amongst the medical and scientific profession just because I don’t follow your belief system says more about how unstable you are….

[SBD]

The South Australian economy struggles on a good day.

Opening up the state again was a good thing. Especially with Omicron.


South Australian can not afford to stay locked down with its borders closed.


It is insanity to lock down the healthy, and destroy economies and small businesses in particular.

There are 367 families (so far) who have sacrificed a loved one for the economy of South Australia. I doubt they think it was worth it

[rev]

SA is stuck in the slow lane – this is what it needs
South Australia is stuck in the slow lane, but successive governments have been handing out the wrong medicine, the chairman of the SA Productivity Commission says.
..

https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/sou ... f25ddc6b32

Anyone able to post the whole thing?

[Llessur2002]

South Australia needs education and research, not industry crutches, says productivity commission chairman

South Australia is stuck in the slow lane, but successive governments have been handing out the wrong medicine, the chairman of the SA Productivity Commission says.

Ploughing funds into education and research rather than $437m annually into unproven industry policies would better build jobs and long-term economic growth, says South Australian Productivity Commission chairman Adrian Tembel.

Declaring the state could not rely on luck forever, Mr Tembel detailed challenging statistics showing SA workers had been earning comparatively less than other Australians for the past 25 years.

He told an Adelaide economic forum that SA had a low-growth economy that would be $29bn larger if the state had merely kept pace with the rest of Australia.

Arguing SA had a wages problem and a growth problem, Mr Tembel questioned successive state governments’ interventionist industry and trade development policies. These included bureaucrats preparing industry plans, marketing, trade missions, investment attraction and building precincts like Lot Fourteen.

“Given the evidence I’ve just presented and the cost, these policies should only continue if credible evidence can be produced that demonstrates they have worked,” Mr Tembel said.

“Otherwise, we should adopt a new industrial development philosophy and orthodoxy that will.”

Mr Tembel, also the chief executive partner of Adelaide-based national law firm Thomson Geer, argued the state government should focus on education and research, moving from trying to help business attract capital and customers to building the state’s “human capability”.

This would include diverting spending and focus to teacher quality rather than buildings, while also lifting the public sector workforce’s digital skills and diverting inefficient administrative spending towards “actual direct research jobs”.

[Jaymz]

A bit of a nothing article really, we already know our growth rate has been below the national average for several decades now.

The sobering fact from it though the $29 billion dollar figure, which means the S.A economy would be around 25% larger than it is currently.

[Waewick]

A bit of a nothing article really, we already know our growth rate has been below the national average for several decades now.

The sobering fact from it though the $29 billion dollar figure, which means the S.A economy would be around 25% larger than it is currently.

That's the problem, oh we all know our state has been below nation average.

We just accept being mediocre.



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