[U/C] M2 North-South Motorway

[rev]

What other route is there?
Besides the bend at the brickworks, its a straight line...why would they deviate?

[greenknight]

What other route is there?
Besides the bend at the brickworks, its a straight line...why would they deviate?

To get less backlash from the local community.

The hard thing about this road is that it is not meant for the locals. It is meant for the wider adelaide population, trucking and delivery routes and people travelling large distances.

Normally when there is a development, there is a bunch of locals who are annoyed, but a bunch of locals who want the development to go ahead because it is causing problems.

The people that want the road to go ahead, are not in the electorates that are getting annoyed. Not to mention as it is going to take AGES for this to come online, people will be sour for ages.

TL;DR Labor dont want to lose votes in those electorates at the next election.

[SBD]

What other route is there?
Besides the bend at the brickworks, its a straight line...why would they deviate?

To get less backlash from the local community.

The hard thing about this road is that it is not meant for the locals. It is meant for the wider adelaide population, trucking and delivery routes and people travelling large distances.

Normally when there is a development, there is a bunch of locals who are annoyed, but a bunch of locals who want the development to go ahead because it is causing problems.

The people that want the road to go ahead, are not in the electorates that are getting annoyed. Not to mention as it is going to take AGES for this to come online, people will be sour for ages.

TL;DR Labor dont want to lose votes in those electorates at the next election.

The Liberal solution with longer bored tunnels instead of trenches, elevated roadways and cut-and-cover short tunnels will produce far less disruption both during construction and in the finished result than the original concept. I don't recall that concept had been developed far enough to work out the details of the city-bound exit to Anzac Highway. I think the Torrens solution was going to be an elevated roadway above the bottlenecks, so would be more visible than the current proposal.

[Listy]

One possible alternative route around this area is to follow James Congdon to Port Rd and then skirt the edge of the parklands until Port Road meets up with South Road again. That whole stretch is probably wide enough for a surface road the whole way.

[Norman]

One possible alternative route around this area is to follow James Congdon to Port Rd and then skirt the edge of the parklands until Port Road meets up with South Road again. That whole stretch is probably wide enough for a surface road the whole way.

I disagree. The less we see of this motorway, the better.

As for concerts impacting the tunnel, this tunnel will be about 50m underground, I doubt there will be any impact.

[SBD]

One possible alternative route around this area is to follow James Congdon to Port Rd and then skirt the edge of the parklands until Port Road meets up with South Road again. That whole stretch is probably wide enough for a surface road the whole way.

I disagree. The less we see of this motorway, the better.

As for concerts impacting the tunnel, this tunnel will be about 50m underground, I doubt there will be any impact.

If a concert at the Thebarton Theatre was loud enough to be heard in or impact the integrity of the tunnel, at least we would not get any complaints about aircraft noise for a while!

For a serious question, are the tunnels proposed to be dug through sedimentary dirt/silt, or deep enough to be in hard rock for most of their length? Fifty metres deep suggests the latter, and below sea level too.

[Nathan]

In London they've managed to run the new Elizabeth Line right under the Barbican Hall (auditorium at the Barbican Arts Centre) without any noise issues (although I believe there's a special concrete mix for that section). So can be done.

[greenknight]

I disagree. The less we see of this motorway, the better.

In an ideal world, it woudl be great to have all tunnels and major roads invisible to local surroundings.

However, the problem I have with tunnels, is future expansion. With Torrens to Torrens. Regency to Pym. Darlington. Northern Connector. Northern Expressway. Southern Expressway. They all can be extended by building out wider. Most of the major work is done, extending it for another lane each way is minimal to what has already happened.

With Tunnels. We are stuck. We are stuck with 3 lanes each way, and any future developments means we need to build more tunnels.

Not only is it less effective in terms of money per dollar... its also less effective for the long term.

[SBD]

I disagree. The less we see of this motorway, the better.

In an ideal world, it woudl be great to have all tunnels and major roads invisible to local surroundings.

However, the problem I have with tunnels, is future expansion. With Torrens to Torrens. Regency to Pym. Darlington. Northern Connector. Northern Expressway. Southern Expressway. They all can be extended by building out wider. Most of the major work is done, extending it for another lane each way is minimal to what has already happened.

With Tunnels. We are stuck. We are stuck with 3 lanes each way, and any future developments means we need to build more tunnels.

Not only is it less effective in terms of money per dollar... its also less effective for the long term.

The question then becomes why might we want to expand that route. The next major need will be some way of getting freight from Murray Bridge to Port Adelaide. That is generally seen to mean a road/tunnel between Glen Osmond and Emerson, but digging a tunnel could go just about anywhere for sufficient money, and need not be as steep with a stop or sharp turn at the bottom.

We have learned that people don’t necessarily all have to go to a central office to work, but a lot of people and businesses might benefit from local (to home) shared office spaces rather than requiring a home office. That would reduce freeway demand, but autonomous cars circling rather than paying for parking would increase demand.

Crystal balls are hard to use.

[rev]

I disagree. The less we see of this motorway, the better.

In an ideal world, it woudl be great to have all tunnels and major roads invisible to local surroundings.

However, the problem I have with tunnels, is future expansion. With Torrens to Torrens. Regency to Pym. Darlington. Northern Connector. Northern Expressway. Southern Expressway. They all can be extended by building out wider. Most of the major work is done, extending it for another lane each way is minimal to what has already happened.

With Tunnels. We are stuck. We are stuck with 3 lanes each way, and any future developments means we need to build more tunnels.

Not only is it less effective in terms of money per dollar... its also less effective for the long term.

3/3 lane tunnels seem to work in other cities with far larger populations, why wouldn't it work here?

The North South motorway should be only part of the fix/solution to road transport infrastructure.

The northern areas, Virgina, MacDonald Park etc, will in the decades ahead be turned into more suburbs. And its only a matter of time before there's no 'gap' between the northern suburbs and Gawler along Main North Road. That's going to put extra pressure on the North South motorway. A second motorway in the north, on the eastern side will be needed. That, or expanding the northern part of the NSM.
But in typical Adelaide fashion, it'll only be thought of after those areas are filled with tens of thousands of houses and the 30 minute commute along the motorway turns into two hours.

[Listy]

If a concert at the Thebarton Theatre was loud enough to be heard in or impact the integrity of the tunnel, at least we would not get any complaints about aircraft noise for a while!

For a serious question, are the tunnels proposed to be dug through sedimentary dirt/silt, or deep enough to be in hard rock for most of their length? Fifty metres deep suggests the latter, and below sea level too.

There's a significant fault line called the Para fault line that runs roughly north south, just west of the CBD - the northern tunnel will lie on the very western side of the faultline. The bedrock is several hundred meters down on that side of the fault. South of the CBD the fault then curves and follows the line of Anzac highway towards Glenelg - I think the motorway will cross the fault line in the above ground section (sensible!), and the southern tunnel will be on the east side of the faultline, where the bedrock is more like 50 metres down. Don't know if the tunnel will be deep enough to go through the bedrock though.
https://earthnotes.blog/2015/02/02/peel ... -adelaide/

[greenknight]

3/3 lane tunnels seem to work in other cities with far larger populations, why wouldn't it work here?

Because they probably have many more highways / freeways that they can jump on and off onto. The N/S is the main corridor for SA. Yes there is the SE freeway and main north road and what not... but they are nothing compared to the traffic on the N/S corridor.

[rev]

3/3 lane tunnels seem to work in other cities with far larger populations, why wouldn't it work here?

Because they probably have many more highways / freeways that they can jump on and off onto. The N/S is the main corridor for SA. Yes there is the SE freeway and main north road and what not... but they are nothing compared to the traffic on the N/S corridor.

Which is why I said the NSM should be only one part of it all.

Tens of thousands of new homes are going to be built at Rivelea, and in the decades to come tens of thousands more in the areas between Riverlea, Virginia, Gawler and the existing northern suburbs.

We're going to need another motorway for the north.
Its going to happen in the long term, it will be linked to the NSM corridor, along with the SEF, the only question is will they plan for it or make it up as they go along like they have been since MATS was scrapped.

[rev]

https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/sou ... d3555246aa

Apparently the tunnel designs could have cost lives?
Anything else Labor will pull out of their asses to justify the delays they're going to announce?

[claybro]

https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/sou ... d3555246aa

Apparently the tunnel designs could have cost lives?
Anything else Labor will pull out of their asses to justify the delays they're going to announce?

You can be sure they are trying to weasel their way out of the tunnel plan entirely. Eventually I believe they will go back to the original hybrid open cut and short tunnel design proposed by Labor last term. Not a bad thing-as I always thought the tunnel was overkill and came with a clusterf.ck of ongoing unforseen issues that a mid size city like Adelaide just would not have the stomach-or pockets for.