Portrush Rd/South Eastern Freeway intersection discussion.

[MT269]

I have seen various mentions of this notorious intersection in other threads, and notice that it did not seem to have it's own. So I thought I'd create one for discussion on this topic.

In my opinion, the SE freeway needs to be rebuilt at least as far as Crafers with a steady gradient that does not include the dangerously steep decline just before the intersection. Cat and mouse shouldn't be accepted as the norm with this death trap. There should at least be an overpass/separation which enables trucks to continue onto Portrush Rd without having to stop. It is terrible planning, and the costs have certainly been evident over the years.

Having an intersection in which 3 rds converge in such a dangerous location is surely not right, even if vehicle maintenance was flawless.

Just my 2c worth.

[SBD]

It was rebuilt with a steady gradient in the 1990s. That is the version we have now, pretty much constant grade from Measdays Hill to Glen Osmond, and all three roads continue downhill from that junction as well. About every five years, someone fails to adequately stop at the bottom. The old route was longer (hence less steep on average), had several slight uphill segments, and a number of sharp corners so a runaway truck would have crashed before it could reach Glen Osmond.

The topography works against any engineered solution at the bottom if we accept this route from the top. A tunnel (no matter where to) means the road has to descend even further. An elevated viaduct to Portrush Road means a runaway truck would be up in the air somewhere, putting huge lateral forces on the bridge and the wall on the outside of the curve, and it still has to descend to ground level which slopes away all the way to Greenhill Road.

A lot of the crashes have been relatively local trucks, so not likely to use a significant detour route. The "Short South" option for a freeway from Mount Barker Springs to somewhere near Darlington would avoid going up and over Measdays Hill, and also provide another alternative route in and out of the southern Adelaide Hills. Unfortunately it would still fill with cars driving people who say they want the simplicity of country living, but really just want a dormitory suburb with a nice name.

A straight-on bridge for cars heading in/out of the city via Glen Osmond Road could mean that heavy vehicles for Portrush Road don't have to try to cross the traffic to make a right turn as they could exit left then turn under the bridge. Bigger trucks are not allowed on Glen Osmond Road anyway, they only end up there when cars block the lane change to turn right.

We would end up with a three-level intersection I think, without right turns from Glen Osmond Road or Portrush Road. Top level would be straight SEF-GOR both ways. Roughly current ground level would exit left off the freeway then turn right under the bridge to Portrush Road, and merge with traffic continuing from Cross Road to Portrush Road. Below ground level is traffic from Cross Road, continuing to Portrush and turning to climb to the SEF

[1NEEDS2POST]

We never hear of cars ploughing through the intersection, it's just trucks when they ride the brakes down the hill. So take the trucks off the freeway and make them use the train. "Rolling highways" are quick to loan and unload (the truck drives on and off the wagons straight ahead) and all they require is a ramp at the siding. One siding at Murray Bridge and another at Mile End and this will work. Trucks travelling to/from the hills can get an exemption.

[SBD]

We never hear of cars ploughing through the intersection, it's just trucks when they ride the brakes down the hill. So take the trucks off the freeway and make them use the train. "Rolling highways" are quick to loan and unload (the truck drives on and off the wagons straight ahead) and all they require is a ramp at the siding. One siding at Murray Bridge and another at Mile End and this will work. Trucks travelling to/from the hills can get an exemption.

Interesting idea. What route(s) in Europe is this used for, and why?

Tailem Bend or Monarto are probably better transition points than Murray Bridge itself. I don't know if Mile End, Regency Park, Port Adelaide or elsewhere would be best for the Adelaide end.

Train and road are within a couple of minutes between Tailem Bend and Monarto. Choosing Tailem Bend might defer the capital cost of duplicating the Swanport Bridge by a few years.

ARTC indicative running time Tailem Bend to Gilman is 183 minutes. Google Maps for a comparable journey by road is 90 minutes, and we should add 12 minutes for descending Crafers to Glen Osmond at 25km/h, so compare 183 minutes to 102 minutes, and in the video the drivers appear to be able to count it as a rest break, but not clear if they can get food, shower or toilet in the driver car.

Would the rail track require duplication to achieve the required throughput currently on the road between those termini? If it does, then new tunnels are required, and are a hot topic at the moment.

Do we know if the headline crashes all involved vehicles that had passed Monarto and/or Tailem Bend? If they started elsewhere or stopped on the way, they wouldn't have been on the "rolling highway" anyway.

[rev]

There's been like two major crashes involving trucks out of the 2+ million trucks that have used it in the last decade or something to that effect if I remember what they were saying after the most recent crash (crash number 2).

It's interstate drivers.
In the case of the last crash, the moron wasn't even licensed to drive a truck. You can hardly blame the road conditions.

The intersection should be an interchange, with a motorway running along the eastern side of the suburbs, and cross road turned into a motorway that connects to the North South Motorway.

South Australia needs to start prioritising what's in the interests of the greater majority over what's in the interests of a minority.
It's the high price we will have to pay if we want to progress as a city, thanks to piss poor planning and urban development for decades.

[1NEEDS2POST]

Interesting idea. What route(s) in Europe is this used for, and why?

Similar reasons to here, usually in a mountain range with a railway, but no adequate road. The best known routes are the Channel Tunnel and Gotthard Base Tunnel. It's popular in India too.

There are a couple of different systems for putting semi-trailers on trains. ANR for a short time used "roadrailers", which are special semi-trialers that use the air suspension to lift themselves up and then bogies can be slid underneath. The trailers were quite heavy and that limited their load on the road. In fact, they had a terminal at Mile End! Here are photos I've found online:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/henkg/27887818035
https://www.flickr.com/photos/markcarter/6142077809

Would the rail track require duplication to achieve the required throughput currently on the road between those termini? If it does, then new tunnels are required, and are a hot topic at the moment.

Do we know if the headline crashes all involved vehicles that had passed Monarto and/or Tailem Bend? If they started elsewhere or stopped on the way, they wouldn't have been on the "rolling highway" anyway.

It will never be as fast as driving a truck because the truck has to wait for the train to arrive/depart. If there is one train every hour (and that's optimistic), then on average, the truck driver has to wait half an hour. The more I think about it, it's never going to be used for trucks only between Murray Bridge and Adelaide. A much more useful idea is to use it for trucks between Melbourne and Adelaide, like what ANR tried, but this time for all semi-trailers.

[DM8]

Ah yes, here it is again, one of Adelaide's most disastrous planning mistakes of the last century coming back to bite hard. Yes, I know that last bingle was an unlicensed driver, but it's still a miracle no one was killed this time around.

It never ceases to disgust me that the plans in the mid 90's for a high speed multi-lane freeway with a continuous unabated 10km decent down a 450m escarpment which comes to a dead stop at traffic lights at the bottom could have ever seen the light of day. But as all of Adelaide's population was bedazzled at the time with "SA's largest road project" ("oooo tunnels!"), any safety concerns raised by anyone with a brain would have gone totally unnoticed.

The South-Eastern Freeway was NEVER designed to end at Glen Osmond. In fact it was never designed to go via Glen Osmond at all. It was a horrific planning mistake that has had tragic consequences, and we're stuck with it for the foreseeable future. All everyone ever does now is keep bitching about band-aid measures like ever decreasing speed limits, blinky lights and more arrester beds. No one in any position of clout talks about what is the actual needed fix here...to reroute the road (no doubt involving tunneling), and continue it to what is now known as the North South Motorway. The only way I can see this being palatable with the inner south-eastern burbs residents would be a tunnel from the bend at the lower arrestor bed, heading west and meeting up with the North South Motorway at an interchange constructed (either above ground or underground) at the expanse of vacant land immediately north of Castle Plaza.

But regardless of what route is chosen, it will cost an absolute fortune, there is no political will, and as the black joke over at the DIT goes, not enough people have died yet to warrant it.

So I guess the bitching about band-aid and stop-gap measures will continue for decades to come.

[marbles]

i think a bypass mount barker to reynella interchange would be easier to build, than the monarto to gawler etc


.....but the darlington to torrens tunnel would need completion before all incoming trucks his south rd from reynella

[Goodsy]

Ah yes, here it is again, one of Adelaide's most disastrous planning mistakes of the last century coming back to bite hard. Yes, I know that last bingle was an unlicensed driver, but it's still a miracle no one was killed this time around.

It never ceases to disgust me that the plans in the mid 90's for a high speed multi-lane freeway with a continuous unabated 10km decent down a 450m escarpment which comes to a dead stop at traffic lights at the bottom could have ever seen the light of day. But as all of Adelaide's population was bedazzled at the time with "SA's largest road project" ("oooo tunnels!"), any safety concerns raised by anyone with a brain would have gone totally unnoticed.

The freeway was just a much needed upgrade of Mount Barker road. All the safety concerns were ignored because it was still a better alternative than having trucks roll off devils elbow every other week

[SBD]

Ah yes, here it is again, one of Adelaide's most disastrous planning mistakes of the last century coming back to bite hard. Yes, I know that last bingle was an unlicensed driver, but it's still a miracle no one was killed this time around.

It never ceases to disgust me that the plans in the mid 90's for a high speed multi-lane freeway with a continuous unabated 10km decent down a 450m escarpment which comes to a dead stop at traffic lights at the bottom could have ever seen the light of day. But as all of Adelaide's population was bedazzled at the time with "SA's largest road project" ("oooo tunnels!"), any safety concerns raised by anyone with a brain would have gone totally unnoticed.

The freeway was just a much needed upgrade of Mount Barker road. All the safety concerns were ignored because it was still a better alternative than having trucks roll off devils elbow every other week

Did the 1960s MATS plan have an alternative route from Murray Bridge/Melbourne to Adelaide/Port Adelaide? I think it predated the original South Eastern Freeway Crafers-Murray Bridge.

[[Shuz]]

Yes, the SE freeway meant to tie into the eastern freeway.

[rev]

Yes, the SE freeway meant to tie into the eastern freeway.

[Mr Smith]

Yes, the SE freeway meant to tie into the eastern freeway.

Yeah from my hazy memory the route connecting SEF and Eastern fwy, was via Brownhill creek valley. It did not use the Mt Barker Rd corridor west of Crafers

[SBD]

Yes, the SE freeway meant to tie into the eastern freeway.

Yeah from my hazy memory the route connecting SEF and Eastern fwy, was via Brownhill creek valley. It did not use the Mt Barker Rd corridor west of Crafers

That's what it looks like there - drive a bulldozer through the PAC playing fields near Dequetteville Terrace down to Belair Road, then up Belair Road and either the Brownhill Creek valley or the ridge on the southern side of it (I can't tell from the maps) and round to meet the Freeway at Crafers (where it used to end).

I still think the best way to get down to Adelaide is to not go all the way UP to Stirling/Crafers. Something like the Globelink rail alignment and the Short South freeway from south of Mount Barker to Darlington.

[ChillyPhilly]

I have a copy of the MATS Plan at home and will try to draw out the route suggested back then. But basically, it was in the vicinity of Fullarton Road and then snaked eastward to join the existing SE Freeway corridor.