[U/C] M2 North-South Motorway

[claybro]

This project will be re announced before the federal budget in October with new guidelines and maybe more exits

My gut feeling is that the previous longer north and south tunnels will go and a T2T style trench used instead. The argument will be that property acquisition will be cheaper than tunneling.

Do you think it will be back to the 2015 version with an elevated road between Tonsley and Edwardstown, or do you think there will be more trench? It will clearly require bridges at several cross streets, but design of exits will need to be careful to ensure that traffic light queues don't trail back into the expressway itself. That seems to be the reason for the proposed flyover at Anzac Highway and the one at Ayliffes Road.

Hopefully. whatever is chosen will be well underway before any of the next Federal or state election, lest it all gets scrapped and changed again. Seriously..the long tunnel option was always going to be a stretch, and just resulted in yet another few years delay in this 50 year saga. Apart from the usual gnashing of teeth from the property owners to be aquired...it would seem sanity has prevailed, and the result will be a much more attractive surface road, as well as a non stop corridor.

[aceman]

So what happens at clovelly park where the fenced off houses and businesses that are earmarked for demo if the tunnel entrance doesn’t go ahead there? That spot was for the staging area for the tunnel boring machines. Would a trench require that land as well?

[Spotto]

Do you think it will be back to the 2015 version with an elevated road between Tonsley and Edwardstown, or do you think there will be more trench? It will clearly require bridges at several cross streets, but design of exits will need to be careful to ensure that traffic light queues don't trail back into the expressway itself. That seems to be the reason for the proposed flyover at Anzac Highway and the one at Ayliffes Road.

Would be VERY surprised if they built an elevated motorway. The reason it was built up at Wingfield is because the surrounding land is industrial and so no residents are affected, and IIRC something to do with the water table in the area. An elevated motorway through the suburbs would be extremely unpopular; just look at the response from the residents around Hove for a much smaller skyrail that would've had usable community space beneath the structure. An elevated motorway would still have South Road stuck beneath it.

[SBD]

My gut feeling is that the previous longer north and south tunnels will go and a T2T style trench used instead. The argument will be that property acquisition will be cheaper than tunneling.

Do you think it will be back to the 2015 version with an elevated road between Tonsley and Edwardstown, or do you think there will be more trench? It will clearly require bridges at several cross streets, but design of exits will need to be careful to ensure that traffic light queues don't trail back into the expressway itself. That seems to be the reason for the proposed flyover at Anzac Highway and the one at Ayliffes Road.

Hopefully. whatever is chosen will be well underway before any of the next Federal or state election, lest it all gets scrapped and changed again. Seriously..the long tunnel option was always going to be a stretch, and just resulted in yet another few years delay in this 50 year saga. Apart from the usual gnashing of teeth from the property owners to be aquired...it would seem sanity has prevailed, and the result will be a much more attractive surface road, as well as a non stop corridor.

I'm not sure I understood what you mean - I assume you didn't mean a wide trench is more attractive than the surface above a bored tunnel.

To say it has been a 50-year saga, you are comparing it to the early 70s when the MATS plan was scrapped? South Road only went as far north as Grand Junction Road (if that far?) Gawler Bypass ended at a stop sign on Main North Road, Port Wakefield Road was one lane each way, through lots of little towns, northern and southern expressways and South Eastern Freeway didn't exist. The expressway may not be completed for another decade, but we've come a long way in that time.

[claybro]

I'm not sure I understood what you mean - I assume you didn't mean a wide trench is more attractive than the surface above a bored tunnel.

To say it has been a 50-year saga, you are comparing it to the early 70s when the MATS plan was scrapped? South Road only went as far north as Grand Junction Road (if that far?) Gawler Bypass ended at a stop sign on Main North Road, Port Wakefield Road was one lane each way, through lots of little towns, northern and southern expressways and South Eastern Freeway didn't exist. The expressway may not be completed for another decade, but we've come a long way in that time.

What I mean is that South Road in its current form through parts of Richmond and then Edwardstown etc, is a most unattractive corridor. The treatment of the T2T section has meant that by default, the crap that lined those sections of South Road were made into a much more attractive surface road, at the same time as allowing the non stop trench. Long tunnels for the remaining sections would have meant all the available funds would be diverted into the tunnel construction, and NO money would be spent upgrading the amenety of South Road surface. It would have become a pot holed mess of a road.-And an eyesore.
Re 50 year saga...in the last 60 years, while every other mainland state capital has constructed extensive networks of arterial motorways/ freeways, Adelaide still does not have 1 single noon stop link. It doesn't matter what form this takes, and agree some of the MATS plan was overkill, but at least a north/south link should have been up and running for at least 30 years by now. This is important for commerce, and also to remove some traffic from minor arterial roads.

[SBD]

I'm not sure I understood what you mean - I assume you didn't mean a wide trench is more attractive than the surface above a bored tunnel.

To say it has been a 50-year saga, you are comparing it to the early 70s when the MATS plan was scrapped? South Road only went as far north as Grand Junction Road (if that far?) Gawler Bypass ended at a stop sign on Main North Road, Port Wakefield Road was one lane each way, through lots of little towns, northern and southern expressways and South Eastern Freeway didn't exist. The expressway may not be completed for another decade, but we've come a long way in that time.

What I mean is that South Road in its current form through parts of Richmond and then Edwardstown etc, is a most unattractive corridor. The treatment of the T2T section has meant that by default, the crap that lined those sections of South Road were made into a much more attractive surface road, at the same time as allowing the non stop trench. Long tunnels for the remaining sections would have meant all the available funds would be diverted into the tunnel construction, and NO money would be spent upgrading the amenety of South Road surface. It would have become a pot holed mess of a road.-And an eyesore.
Re 50 year saga...in the last 60 years, while every other mainland state capital has constructed extensive networks of arterial motorways/ freeways, Adelaide still does not have 1 single noon stop link. It doesn't matter what form this takes, and agree some of the MATS plan was overkill, but at least a north/south link should have been up and running for at least 30 years by now. This is important for commerce, and also to remove some traffic from minor arterial roads.

Thank you. I haven't seen a cost breakdown to indicate how much might be spent as part of the project on upgrading the remaining road. Clearly it would get some work at any interfaces with the new road - portals and interchanges. How far that would extend into otherwise untouched sections, I have no idea. I quite like the (look, not function) of the section between Sir Donald Bradman Drive and Ashwin Parade which has mostly retained its pre-1960s frontages rather than the sections further north that have had the front of the suburb scraped off to make more room for the road.

The "gradual" improvements to the road network have resulted in the occasional headline-grabbing crashes at Glen Osmond. Either a NSM equivalent on the east and north sides of the city or an alternative route from Mount Barker to the NSM is going to need to be planned soon and funded as soon as possible.

[SouthAussie94]

I'm not sure I understood what you mean - I assume you didn't mean a wide trench is more attractive than the surface above a bored tunnel.

To say it has been a 50-year saga, you are comparing it to the early 70s when the MATS plan was scrapped? South Road only went as far north as Grand Junction Road (if that far?) Gawler Bypass ended at a stop sign on Main North Road, Port Wakefield Road was one lane each way, through lots of little towns, northern and southern expressways and South Eastern Freeway didn't exist. The expressway may not be completed for another decade, but we've come a long way in that time.

What I mean is that South Road in its current form through parts of Richmond and then Edwardstown etc, is a most unattractive corridor. The treatment of the T2T section has meant that by default, the crap that lined those sections of South Road were made into a much more attractive surface road, at the same time as allowing the non stop trench. Long tunnels for the remaining sections would have meant all the available funds would be diverted into the tunnel construction, and NO money would be spent upgrading the amenety of South Road surface. It would have become a pot holed mess of a road.-And an eyesore.
Re 50 year saga...in the last 60 years, while every other mainland state capital has constructed extensive networks of arterial motorways/ freeways, Adelaide still does not have 1 single noon stop link. It doesn't matter what form this takes, and agree some of the MATS plan was overkill, but at least a north/south link should have been up and running for at least 30 years by now. This is important for commerce, and also to remove some traffic from minor arterial roads.

I'd imagine that the Government would hope that once a large percentage of the traffic is removed from the surface and is in the tunnel, that private investment would redevelop the dodgy shopfronts and houses along the corridor.

In theory, its prime real estate. Close to the city, good connections to the north and south. The current draw back is the obvious traffic. Remove this and it could become a somewhat desirable area.

There would obviously need to be some work on the road proper with resurfacing and the like, but probably not substantial rework in the short to medium term. Ultimately I think it will remain a major road.

[neoballmon]

So what happens at clovelly park where the fenced off houses and businesses that are earmarked for demo if the tunnel entrance doesn’t go ahead there? That spot was for the staging area for the tunnel boring machines. Would a trench require that land as well?

Went past today and at least 2 of these blocks were completely cleared. Another few fenced off with Royal Salvage banners, then another few were clearly empty but not yet fenced off (one with a "For Lease" sign, which I really hope is just an old sign!)

But even if they went with trench, they would still need to acquire these properties. I know for the staging area they were going to take houses behind these shops, I'm not sure what the status is with those.

[neoballmon]

SURELY... Daws Road and Cross Road exits!?

Daws road northbound would be perfectly fine to use the Tonsley exit.
An exit may be handy for southbound, but would have to be substantially before the intersection to avoid the power station (based on how T2T was designed around that one)

[Saltwater]

I would be very surprised if the idea of tunnelling under the inner west (Kings Reserve to SDB) is dropped. Loud and active community groups including the Save the Thebby would immediately spring into action, and anything other than a tunnel would destroy the heritage of the local area. The section through Richmond and Marleston was already going to be lowered motorway, but probably with some re-work around the Anzac Highway interchange, where the previous design only had one lane existing northbound. What that means for Richmond Road also remains to be seen. The southern section will be the most interesting, I think there is next to zero chance of an elevated motorway, and even think a lowered motorway is unlikely.

[Llessur2002]

I would be very surprised if the idea of tunnelling under the inner west (Kings Reserve to SDB) is dropped. Loud and active community groups including the Save the Thebby would immediately spring into action, and anything other than a tunnel would destroy the heritage of the local area. The section through Richmond and Marleston was already going to be lowered motorway, but probably with some re-work around the Anzac Highway interchange, where the previous design only had one lane existing northbound. What that means for Richmond Road also remains to be seen. The southern section will be the most interesting, I think there is next to zero chance of an elevated motorway, and even think a lowered motorway is unlikely.

Pretty much sums up thoughts too - dropping the tunnels will be a fairly big political gamble. I'm expecting a few tweaks to justify the largely politically-motivated delay - perhaps the removal of the Brickworks overpass, some tweaking of the ANZAC Highway exit and a few other relatively minor amendments. I'll happily eat a small chocolate hat if I'm wrong.

[MT269]

Are there any plans for a 'motorway' along Portrush Rd in the future? The Magill junction could be the first sod turned for such. I'm sure there will be a time when traffic congestion becomes too much, and the need for a non-stop corridor arises.

[SBD]

Are there any plans for a 'motorway' along Portrush Rd in the future? The Magill junction could be the first sod turned for such. I'm sure there will be a time when traffic congestion becomes too much, and the need for a non-stop corridor arises.

I think the Magill Road junction would need to be completely reworked to end up with any kind of non-stop motorway.

Clearly when/if the north-south motorway is completed, a solution of some kind will be needed to remove the heavy vehicle traffic that would inevitably choose Cross Road to get from the SE Freeway to the NS Motorway. As far as I can tell, nobody with their hands on the purse strings has made a serious response to what that solution could be. 2018 Liberal opposition proposed GlobeLink but 2018 Liberal government decided it wouldn't stack up.

Current political will seems to be to remove the possibility of a 1-in-5-year crash at Glen Osmond, and to improve the ability for people to commute from Mount Barker to Adelaide. Both of these goals seem to be addressed (not necessarily solved) by the Short South option that was considered in the report that killed GlobeLink. I can't tell if either major party nor the Department are seriously looking at costing and planning this or any other solution. The public discourse so far has only been bandaids at the intersection.

[rev]

Are there any plans for a 'motorway' along Portrush Rd in the future? The Magill junction could be the first sod turned for such. I'm sure there will be a time when traffic congestion becomes too much, and the need for a non-stop corridor arises.

I think the Magill Road junction would need to be completely reworked to end up with any kind of non-stop motorway.

Clearly when/if the north-south motorway is completed, a solution of some kind will be needed to remove the heavy vehicle traffic that would inevitably choose Cross Road to get from the SE Freeway to the NS Motorway. As far as I can tell, nobody with their hands on the purse strings has made a serious response to what that solution could be. 2018 Liberal opposition proposed GlobeLink but 2018 Liberal government decided it wouldn't stack up.

Current political will seems to be to remove the possibility of a 1-in-5-year crash at Glen Osmond, and to improve the ability for people to commute from Mount Barker to Adelaide. Both of these goals seem to be addressed (not necessarily solved) by the Short South option that was considered in the report that killed GlobeLink. I can't tell if either major party nor the Department are seriously looking at costing and planning this or any other solution. The public discourse so far has only been bandaids at the intersection.

Nobody has made a decision, nobody has heard anything or seen anything, because nothing has been thought of, considered, or envisioned. Because that is the South Australian way, make it up as we go along, and end up with a shitty compromised outcome.

[claybro]

Are there any plans for a 'motorway' along Portrush Rd in the future? The Magill junction could be the first sod turned for such. I'm sure there will be a time when traffic congestion becomes too much, and the need for a non-stop corridor arises.

They cant even complete the main N/S corridor after 50 years and the current incarnation of that traverses some of the cheapest, most commercialised parts of Adelaide, I don't hold out much hope of Portrush ever being a motorway -given the suburbs it would have to go through. Not in my lifetime-or yours. They either get the trucks off BEFORE the tollgate, or maybe upgrade Cross Road. The Libs tried this with Globelink...but it failed to gain traction. So no....never.