News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

[claybro]

Sorry, I should clarify.. I spent a week recently in Western Victoria where people are up in arms, and it’s daily in the media Re. 1. Ambulance and hospital response times, and 2. The atrocious state of regional roads, which are diabolical over there. The opposition is largely gone missing on these issues, until it becomes a free for all in the various liocal press. Much of the disquiet is the money being spent on urban, and some regional rail projects which bear no benefit to those outside of the immediate areas.
Anyone reading my posts would know I fully support rail. The post was just to point out the reasons in SA that rail will not be much prioritised at present, and it may well get Victoria into a lot of hot water financially if not politically moving forward.

[SouthAussie94]

Sorry, I should clarify.. I spent a week recently in Western Victoria where people are up in arms, and it’s daily in the media Re. 1. Ambulance and hospital response times, and 2. The atrocious state of regional roads, which are diabolical over there. The opposition is largely gone missing on these issues, until it becomes a free for all in the various liocal press. Much of the disquiet is the money being spent on urban, and some regional rail projects which bear no benefit to those outside of the immediate areas.
Anyone reading my posts would know I fully support rail. The post was just to point out the reasons in SA that rail will not be much prioritised at present, and it may well get Victoria into a lot of hot water financially if not politically moving forward.

Without going off topic too much, a similar urban/rural divide exists in SA as well.

Those in rural areas don't see the point on spending $xyz million on ZYX project in the city when their local hospital/school/road is in ABC state.

Likewise, people in the city don't see the point of spending $xyz million on a project in a rural area when it will be used by comparatively few people.

The response you get to any particular project will vary depending on who you ask. It isn't a massive surprise that those in rural Victoria are largely opposed to an urban rail project

[dbl96]

Is there any chance whatsoever of trams returning to Norwood, now that the LNP is finally out of office for a few years?

I think a route along KW Rd where the 200 bus route goes could prove useful. But it has to be able to outpace the current bus service. It is quite a bit quicker on a bus from south of Greenhill Rd to stop X2 just north of Currie/Grenfell St than a tram.

That was proposed by Labor in 2018. Unfortunately it was not a winning proposal. Further, the present Labor Government has other priorities in health. Finally, where there was money promised in 2018, by Federal Labor if they won, that didn't happen. Now, there's a trillion in debt and two elections lost by parties promising trams.

I'd say the likelihood of any tram extensions are zero for the foreseeable future. There's no money, and people voted for no-tram parties. It's democracy. We had a small window of opportunity. We voted for no-tram parties. No money, no political support.

Getting back on topic in the rail forum, I'd say the tight financial situation and focus on aged care, NDIS and childcare will mean very little money for infrastructure. Much of that will be gobbled up by Inland Rail. So, much of the stuff like further electrification or new routes is unlikely. As for a city underground loop? Can anyone realistically say that the Liberals or the present Labor Government are even thinking about it?

This unfortunately seems to be the way that the current state Labor party has interpreted things.

In actual fact, I don't think there was mass opposition to expanding the tram network in the leadup to the 2018 election. The tram was basically opposed by certain vocal interest groups (primarily business owners on Norwood Parade) who, ignoring the benefits of the increased accessibility the tram would provide, put forward the deluded notion that the tram was going to destroy their businesses because it would have resulted in the removal of a handful of on-street carparks.

As for the question of there being no money, you are correct that there is less cash to splash around generally now, and that priorities have shifted to the health system. However, it has to be said that tram extensions are fairly cheap in the broader scheme of infrastructure spending. The 1.1km North Tce/King William Road extension, including the "grand junction" cost around 100 million dollars. Finishing South Road is currently estimated at costing something in the order of 10 billion dollars. Of course inflation has had a big effect, but based on those figures we could probably build 100km of tramlines or more for the cost of finishing those last 10km of South Road. It is all about priorities. Big infrastructure for cars is prioritised again and again over smaller and cheaper improvements to public transport, cycling and pedestrian infrastructure which could be more effective at reducing congestion.

[bits]

but based on those figures we could probably build 100km of tramlines or more for the cost of finishing those last 10km of South Road. It is all about priorities.

Trains and trams are afforded every benefit.
Everything stops to let rail through, rail stops are built better, we spend big on pedestrian crossings and prime land corridors are dedicated to rail to exclusion of everything including emergency vehicles.
And yet where rail runs it is not a more popular PT than where it doesn't run.

100km more of rail may not add any more passengers to public transport. It might reduce passengers. At least that is what Adelaide public transport usage data says to me.
It would consume money and prime land to do nothing better than is already there.
Rail might assist the lucky few living on-top of a stop but hinders the majority further from the stop.

[claybro]

but based on those figures we could probably build 100km of tramlines or more for the cost of finishing those last 10km of South Road. It is all about priorities.

Trains and trams are afforded every benefit.
Everything stops to let rail through, rail stops are built better, we spend big on pedestrian crossings and prime land corridors are dedicated to rail to exclusion of everything including emergency vehicles.
And yet where rail runs it is not a more popular PT than where it doesn't run.

100km more of rail may not add any more passengers to public transport. It might reduce passengers. At least that is what Adelaide public transport usage data says to me.
It would consume money and prime land to do nothing better than is already there.
Rail might assist the lucky few living on-top of a stop but hinders the majority further from the stop.

Now take the heavy rail corridors away and see the chaos that is created on the roads. How many buses are required to replace 1x 3car train? Imagine all the buses lined up at Adelaide Oval on game days. Imagine the CBD at peak hour with all those extra busses on the roads. Even using dedicated corridors for buses-it would then still require either grade separation or dedicated right of way a la Obahn and bus tunnels to even come close to the speed of trains. Bearing in mind Adelaide trains are run nowhere near their capable design speeds. the lack of popularity of Adelaide trains is due to poor station infrstructure, poor station location...and the fact the trains don't really get people where they need to go, because the services and shopping precincts have been built AWAY from the rail lines.

[Nathan]

because the services and shopping precincts have been built AWAY from the rail lines.

And even the few times they're not, they're still borderline/completely unaccessible. Churchill Centre is adjacent to two stops on the Gawler line, practically impossible to access either of them. St Clair has a half hearted back entrance, while the centre completely faces an open carpark. Even TTP next to the O-Bahn terminal requires a hike across a carpark and secondary entrance.

[bits]

Now take the heavy rail corridors away and see the chaos that is created on the roads. How many buses are required to replace 1x 3car train? Imagine all the buses lined up at Adelaide Oval on game days. Imagine the CBD at peak hour with all those extra busses on the roads.

But for the 100km not yet built, all those busses already exist today. For all the areas without a rail line, which is most of Adelaide, all those busses already exist.
The trains are carrying a small portion of the users.
Adelaide Oval users are overwhelming travelling via bus already.
If all the train lines changed to bus corridors I don't think you would see much congestion at all. Adelaide would barely notice the couple of extra busses.

NS Motorway has business cases that say it is effective use of money and land.
Is there a study that says 100km of rail would be money well spent? Or would net improve travel time for the area?

[claybro]

Now take the heavy rail corridors away and see the chaos that is created on the roads. How many buses are required to replace 1x 3car train? Imagine all the buses lined up at Adelaide Oval on game days. Imagine the CBD at peak hour with all those extra busses on the roads.

But for the 100km not yet built, all those busses already exist today. For all the areas without a rail line, which is most of Adelaide, all those busses already exist.
The trains are carrying a small portion of the users.
Adelaide Oval users are overwhelming travelling via bus already.
If all the train lines changed to bus corridors I don't think you would see much congestion at all. Adelaide would barely notice the couple of extra busses.

NS Motorway has business cases that say it is effective use of money and land.
Is there a study that says 100km of rail would be money well spent? Or would net improve travel time for the area?

The issues you refer to ie lack of patronage, and travel time are a symptom of how the existing Adelaide system is operated and structured, not a case against rail as a concept. Same applies to the tram. Heavy rail in Adelaide has the potential to be much more than what it is...and buses would never hope to transport the amount of commuters over long distances in the same times. As Adelaide population density increases, as well as expands its footprint, rail will become even more important for the longer routes.

[RetroGamer87]

I saw a guy waiting at the pedestrian crossing at Islington station. He was waiting behind a mile long freight train. The freight train was moving at about 3 miles per hour because it was pulling into the freight depot. He could have been waiting for 20 minutes. This highlights the need for grade separated pedestrian crossings where the line runs paralell to the ARTC line.

[1NEEDS2POST]

I saw a guy waiting at the pedestrian crossing at Islington station. He was waiting behind a mile long freight train. The freight train was moving at about 3 miles per hour because it was pulling into the freight depot. He could have been waiting for 20 minutes. This highlights the need for grade separated pedestrian crossings where the line runs paralell to the ARTC line.

Islington should have pedestrian access from the Regency Road overpass. That also solves the grade separated pedestrian crossing problem.

[PeFe]

Bike friendly carriages now available on the Belair Line

Bike-friendly carriages take to the Belair line

05 Nov 2022

Mountain bikers and other cyclists now have easier access to popular off-road trails and other riding areas in and around the southern suburbs, with bike-friendly rail carriages operating on the Belair line from today.

Five rail carriages are being reconfigured to allow more space for bicycles. The first of the carriages went into service on the line today, with further carriages to become operational from next weekend.

The bike-friendly service will be available during weekends, public holidays and off-peak services. The two-carriage units on the Belair line will include an existing standard carriage and a reconfigured, bike service carriage.

The refitted carriages only require a two-seat reduction to the standard 72-seat configuration while providing additional bike storage space.

The same carriages will operate during peak times on weekdays, however cyclists using the carriage at these times (before 9am and between 3-6pm) must have a ticket both for themselves and a separate, additional peak concession MetroCard or MetroTicket for their bicycle ($2 per trip if using a concession MetroCard, or $3 per trip if using a single trip concession MetroTicket). Learn more about bikes on trains.

Travellers should always consider the safety and comfort of other passengers, and cyclists are required to remain with their bikes on-board the bike carriage.

https://www.adelaidemetro.com.au/about- ... elair-line

[PeFe]

Photo borrowed from Catherine Hutchessons Facebook page.

[[Shuz]]

Ovingham Railway Station reopened today.

[PD2/20]

Ovingham Railway Station reopened today.

It was operational yesterday although the notice on the Admet website only appeared lunchtime today!

[PeFe]

Photos of new Ovingham train station (from the DPTISA Facebook page)