News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

[gnrc_louis]

https://indaily.com.au/news/2022/12/06/ ... -the-line/

Few thoughts:

• The preliminary target of a fully electric bus fleet by 2050 is not nearly amitious enough. I hope the final business case targets within 10-15 years. I would love to see O-Bahn routes fully converted first as part of greener, cleaner and quieter Grenfell/Currie transit mall.
• The bit about "options to “redevelop, expand or replace” existing inner-city bus depots" is interesting. If this implication is to offload for capital, I imagine UniSA would be very interested in the Currie Street depot (especially if the remand centre is eventually relocated as has been rumored).
• You'd have to worry for Grange given the groundwork being laid by statements such as "The Grange line will also require a track infrastructure upgrade in the short [to] medium term."

Why bother upgrading the Grange line when it’s probably used by a few hundred ppl per day? Decommission it.
Instead, extend a new electric rail line to West Lakes Mall via West Lakes Blvd and Brebner Drive. Then build a big park and ride … will be super-popular, not unlike TTP.
You will get 10x the patronage of Grange.

As a long time Grange line user, it is well frequented at peak times and for events. Rather than decommission it and lose yet another line, why not electrify AND build a line to west lakes.

[Nort]

Once you close a rail corridor in SA, the record shows it isn't ever coming back in the future. Rather than closing a line, we should be looking at the medium and long term development plans for along it.

[rubberman]

Few thoughts:

• The preliminary target of a fully electric bus fleet by 2050 is not nearly amitious enough. I hope the final business case targets within 10-15 years. I would love to see O-Bahn routes fully converted first as part of greener, cleaner and quieter Grenfell/Currie transit mall.
• The bit about "options to “redevelop, expand or replace” existing inner-city bus depots" is interesting. If this implication is to offload for capital, I imagine UniSA would be very interested in the Currie Street depot (especially if the remand centre is eventually relocated as has been rumored).
• You'd have to worry for Grange given the groundwork being laid by statements such as "The Grange line will also require a track infrastructure upgrade in the short [to] medium term."

Why bother upgrading the Grange line when it’s probably used by a few hundred ppl per day? Decommission it.
Instead, extend a new electric rail line to West Lakes Mall via West Lakes Blvd and Brebner Drive. Then build a big park and ride … will be super-popular, not unlike TTP.
You will get 10x the patronage of Grange.

As a long time Grange line user, it is well frequented at peak times and for events. Rather than decommission it and lose yet another line, why not electrify AND build a line to west lakes.

Why not just convert the whole Outer Harbor and Grange lines to light rail?

Far cheaper, and does the same job.

Plus, it has a lot more potential for services to Semaphore, Largs, West Lakes and extension of the present Grange stub to Henley Beach.

[Saltwater]

Because the rail line should (but won't) be extended across to St Kilda, and up to Buckland Park

[rubberman]

Because the rail line should (but won't) be extended across to St Kilda, and up to Buckland Park

The problem with the Outer Harbor line is that it tries to be both heavy rail, and light rail at the same time...and fails at both because it's impossible to do both.

Heavy rail succeeds with large passenger numbers at high speeds between stations preferably 2km or more apart. It's appallingly wasteful picking up one or two passengers at stations under 1km apart....and that's the Outer Harbor line.

So...it's either turn the Outer Harbor line into a real heavy rail operation with 2km station spacings and then extend to St Kilda and Buckland Park, or turn it into light rail with the present spacings, extend to West Lakes, Semaphore, Henley etc. I predict that people insisting on heavy rail operating as a light rail will just doom the Grange line to extinction...and possibly anything past Port Adelaide.

[MT269]

The following stations could be removed on the OH line, without causing excessive inconvenience:

West Croydon
Woodville Park
Cheltenham
Ethelton (amalgamated with Glanville)
Largs
Draper
Midlunga

This would enable a travel time of 31 minutes stopping all stops. A saving of 2 minutes would be achieved if running express to/from Woodville. There is no need to remove any stations on the Grange line at the moment. But relocating East Grange closer to Grange Rd may be an improvement. It would also possibly invalidate the ongoing debate about whether to convert to a tram line, or electrify it.

Alternatively, if one wants to slow services down a little, an additional station could be added between Bowden and Croydon, as well as one at Grand Junction Rd.

Is there any valid reason to not consider the above (excluding adding any additional stations that aren't Port Dock)?

[cocoiadrop]

I think the solution is introducing CBTC signalling after electrification similar to that found on the London Underground sub-surface lines. It would allow the train to have faster acceleration and deceleration therefore improving running times without impacting on stations and inconvencing those affected by closures.

Greenfields station on the Gawler line however is far too close to Mawson.

[SBD]

Because the rail line should (but won't) be extended across to St Kilda, and up to Buckland Park

The problem with the Outer Harbor line is that it tries to be both heavy rail, and light rail at the same time...and fails at both because it's impossible to do both.

Heavy rail succeeds with large passenger numbers at high speeds between stations preferably 2km or more apart. It's appallingly wasteful picking up one or two passengers at stations under 1km apart....and that's the Outer Harbor line.

So...it's either turn the Outer Harbor line into a real heavy rail operation with 2km station spacings and then extend to St Kilda and Buckland Park, or turn it into light rail with the present spacings, extend to West Lakes, Semaphore, Henley etc. I predict that people insisting on heavy rail operating as a light rail will just doom the Grange line to extinction...and possibly anything past Port Adelaide.

Fanciful extension requiring another lift bridge to get back across the Port River and Barker Inlet, and some complex construction and signalling (or grade separation) to cross the standard gauge line. It would be much easier to use the gauge-converting rolling stop proposed for Mount Barker, and run it on the standard gauge line with stations reinstated at Direk, Bolivar (Penfield) and Virginia to service a Riverlea Park spur, or reinstate a regional passenger rail service to Port Pirie, Port Augusta and Whyalla.

[MT269]

@rubberman

I gather you didn't see the thread about increasing spacings between stations I created within the last 32 hours.

There are numerous stations which are candidates for removal. The OH has 20 active stations, which makes for just over one per km, when you factor in the distance between Bowden and Adelaide. The number of stations between Glanville and Outer Harbour, as well as Adelaide and Woodville is ridiculous. But to rationalise the numbers to a small degree at least would require a strategy only seen in states that aren't this one. IE it will never happen.

[ChillyPhilly]

The following stations could be removed on the OH line, without causing excessive inconvenience:

West Croydon
Woodville Park
Cheltenham
Ethelton (amalgamated with Glanville)
Largs
Draper
Midlunga

This would enable a travel time of 31 minutes stopping all stops. A saving of 2 minutes would be achieved if running express to/from Woodville. There is no need to remove any stations on the Grange line at the moment. But relocating East Grange closer to Grange Rd may be an improvement. It would also possibly invalidate the ongoing debate about whether to convert to a tram line, or electrify it.

Alternatively, if one wants to slow services down a little, an additional station could be added between Bowden and Croydon, as well as one at Grand Junction Rd.

Is there any valid reason to not consider the above (excluding adding any additional stations that aren't Port Dock)?

I can agree with this list. Enhancing development (appropriately) along the OH/G line is possible at Kilkenny, Woodville (just not on St Clair Reserve), Albert Park with further enhancement of existing development The Square, Seaton Park, Grange (a petrol station right next to a transit stop is seriously inappropriate), Port Adelaide and Port Dock, and even Outer Harbor.

Closing stations is difficult though, even if in the well-intentioned name of speeding up services. Even the likes of West Croydon (Queen Street) and Woodville Park (Whitefriars Primary School, Arndale Shopping Centre) provide important connections to the locations in brackets.

An amalgamated Glanville/Ethelton stop should still serve both existing Newport Quays, and serve upcoming Fletcher's Slip, while leaving enough opportunity for light rail to provide a service. Equally, new developments like Fletcher's Slip should be legislated to orient construction, land uses and density toward transit stops, with carparking not even part of the discussion, because it shouldn't be.

A while ago I posted her or elsewhere a pipe dream for the Grange line - that it should be extended southward then eastward to Mile End to create a suburban loop. THis would involve new stations at Henley Square, West Beach, potentially Harbour Town and Adelaide Airport.

It could still link with an underground CBD rail tunnel.

I have some basic maps but a glitch won't let me link them here.

[ralmin]

A new line connecting:

• West Lakes Shopping Centre
• Grange Railway Station
• Henley Square
• Harbour Town
• Adelaide Airport
• Mile End Homemaker Centre
• Central Market/Chinatown
• Rundle Mall/Pulteney Street
• The Parade Norwood
• Burnside Village

[rev]

[PD2/20]

Whatthe77.jpg

This is an interesting map of the Adelaide Metropolitan Rail Network before it contracted in the 1980s. The map is undated but must reflect the extent of the system between 25 Jan 1976 (when the Noarlunga line was opened to the temporary Christie Downs terminus) and 2 Apr 1978 (when Noarlunga Centre was opened). The Semaphore branch closed in October 1978.

Do you have any information about the origin of the map? There is some form of attribution at the very bottom of the map but it is not decipherable. The same map but in different format and resolutions appears in the Wikipedia article "Railways in Adelaide". My conjecture is that it was issued by the STA after the non-metropolitan lines passed from the STA to Australian National with the boundary established at Bridgewater (and Virginia).

The value of the map as a historical document would be enhanced by knowing its orginal source.

[TorrensSA]

Also there's no Munno Para which opened in 1978.

[PD2/20]

Also there's no Munno Para which opened in 1978.

Google search gives 29th October 1978 as the precise date. This was the same weekend that the Semaphore line closed.