[U/C] M2 North-South Motorway

[SBD]

If the government was silly enough to go anywhere near the Thebby again a large and vocal group (think global, including big bands that love playing the venue) would quickly mobilise and the government would be forced to retreat.

I get that South Road through the inner west is a carpark most of the time as I live very close to it.

Following the logic of knocking down the Thebby to build a freeway, there would be no concerns with taking a scalpel to any properties along Glen Osmond Road, Cross Road and North East Roads to build a proper functional, cross-city freeway network.

Obviously the venue means something to people, but it's just nostalgia. Should a minorities nostalgic feelings and attachment to a building be a determining factor in altering the course of a major infrastructure project, potentially increasing the cost which is worn by the majority of tax payers? Not to mention the delays which cost everyone.

Do those random bands have to endure South Road traffic?
Are those random bands willing to contribute their money to restoring the building from it's derelict state?
If the answer is no, then what they think is irrelevant. And frankly what they think on a local issue is irrelevant anyway if they don't live here.

And absolutely on a cross city freeway/motorway network.
This is the price that has to be paid now to overcome the congestion issues because of the small town mentality that prevented adequate progress in the past.
But that will only happen if the small town mentality does not prevail again.

We have a number of things across the city and state that are Heritage Listed. People have cared enough about "nostalgia" to create and maintain those lists, and laws that limit its destruction.

Current government policy seems to be that heritage listing is not important if the site is not public accessible or "attractive". Previous governments have considered that even what is not currently accessible and isn't currently viewed as "attractive" might still be worthy of preservation if it is representative of a particular time or function, and future governments might also value heritage/nostalgia if there is any left.

I don't think it's fair to blame 50-years-ago or 150-years-ago Adelaide for not having created enormous suburban road corridors due to the small town mentality of having funnelled through-traffic up King William Street. Town planning then always connected the main roads to the Main Street. I doubt the people of the late 19th century could have imagined the urban sprawl of greater Adelaide today from their farms at Plympton or Regency Park.

I love the completed parts of the North South Motorway and wish "they" would get on and join the northern and southern parts. It's not obvious to me why the North-South Corridor was built west of the city instead of east, so it could have naturally connected to the Southeastern Freeway. I'm not old enough to remember Lower Portrush Road being built to channel traffic that way (1970), but I remember when there was only one lane each way between Greenhill Road and Magill Road, and South Road terminated at Regency or Grand Junction Road.

We can do lots of "it would have been better if ...", but we have what we have now and can only go forwards from here, not back up and take a different path. We can't think about a new end-state without considering the transition from what-is to what-will-be.

[cocoiadrop]

Knocking down suburbs to create motorways that will eventually need even more expansion would be a disgusting move.

If a corridor is needed for freight to get from the NSM to the SEF, then they should build a bypass around the hills. Even if it increases travel times for freight overall, it keeps them out of the suburbs reducing noise pollution and allowing for more human friendly infrastructure in general.

[Vasco]

The media have a hand in sensationalising everything in this state, even to the extent of a couple of homes lost. I’ve never lived in the eastern states, but I’d be surprised if they had such a nimby angle on city building infrastructure.

And in terms of the Thebby or similar, all it takes is one self interested party to make some noise and it spreads like wild fire.

You cannot expect the govt to start ruling things in or out before final decisions have been made and designs releases, otherwise they will be hamstrung into providing comment every time things are unjustifiably sensationalised in the media.


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[Nort]

The media have a hand in sensationalising everything in this state, even to the extent of a couple of homes lost. I’ve never lived in the eastern states, but I’d be surprised if they had such a nimby angle on city building infrastructure.

And in terms of the Thebby or similar, all it takes is one self interested party to make some noise and it spreads like wild fire.

You cannot expect the govt to start ruling things in or out before final decisions have been made and designs releases, otherwise they will be hamstrung into providing comment every time things are unjustifiably sensationalised in the media.


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The East-West link in Melbourne was literally the focus of election campaigns and one of their biggest political stories.

[Vasco]

The media have a hand in sensationalising everything in this state, even to the extent of a couple of homes lost. I’ve never lived in the eastern states, but I’d be surprised if they had such a nimby angle on city building infrastructure.

And in terms of the Thebby or similar, all it takes is one self interested party to make some noise and it spreads like wild fire.

You cannot expect the govt to start ruling things in or out before final decisions have been made and designs releases, otherwise they will be hamstrung into providing comment every time things are unjustifiably sensationalised in the media.


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The East-West link in Melbourne was literally the focus of election campaigns and one of their biggest political stories.

The difference is Sydney / Melbourne already have major freeways across their cities.

New plans moving forward will always be somewhat contentious because one political side may support it, the other will not (as I believe was the case as you referred to above). There’s also design / cost arguments which are always going to happen.

My point is Adelaide still doesn’t have a major freeway across our city. Anyone with half a brain knows it is required to keep productivity moving and for the competitiveness of a growing city for now and beyond.

The fact that the media always panders to a few people who might have their home acquired on south road is the issue. It encourages typical Adelaide NIMBYism, Instead of focusing on the bigger picture for the good of our city / state.


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[Nort]

Maybe, but underplaying the scope of it is disingenuous at best or actively misleading at worst. It's not just "a few people who might have their home acquired". A trench along the whole length previously planned to be tunnelled is the acquisition of hundreds of businesses, the aforementioned homes, and also running a steam-roller through a number of suburbs, effectively splitting them in two.

Argue that destruction is justified and make that case it will provide a net benefit, but underplaying the cost undermines that to no end.

[ChillyPhilly]

They need to just get on with this already.
They'll be spending over $10 billion if the government is to be believed hence the delays. That's almost $1 billion per kilometre.
For that money they could buy up all the properties along that stretch and dig a trench the whole way, and still have money to help businesses relocate.

Tunnels or a single long tunnel would be cool, but let's be realistic.

Forget the heritage excuses. What heritage? Who gives a shit about some old houses. They wont be standing in 200 years let alone 500 years, it's not like in centuries to come our descendants will be looking at them as ancient monuments with tourists visiting them like we do with the Pyramids and so on, they wont give a shit about some old houses, majority of people today don't give a shit, so why hinder progress and drive up the cost of getting shit done?

Just bulldoze everything along the remainder of the corridor that can't be worked around at a reasonable cost, dig out a trench and get it done.
Any other city would have been all over this by now. Only SA with it's backwater minded politicians still pissfarts around with how to upgrade a road.

The only pro-heritage argument I've seen is that of Thebarton Theatre, and a tunnel is going underneath with no threat to the building.

[Nort]

They need to just get on with this already.
They'll be spending over $10 billion if the government is to be believed hence the delays. That's almost $1 billion per kilometre.
For that money they could buy up all the properties along that stretch and dig a trench the whole way, and still have money to help businesses relocate.

Tunnels or a single long tunnel would be cool, but let's be realistic.

Forget the heritage excuses. What heritage? Who gives a shit about some old houses. They wont be standing in 200 years let alone 500 years, it's not like in centuries to come our descendants will be looking at them as ancient monuments with tourists visiting them like we do with the Pyramids and so on, they wont give a shit about some old houses, majority of people today don't give a shit, so why hinder progress and drive up the cost of getting shit done?

Just bulldoze everything along the remainder of the corridor that can't be worked around at a reasonable cost, dig out a trench and get it done.
Any other city would have been all over this by now. Only SA with it's backwater minded politicians still pissfarts around with how to upgrade a road.

The only pro-heritage argument I've seen is that of Thebarton Theatre, and a tunnel is going underneath with no threat to the building.

A tunnel is probably going underneath it, we'll find out next week.

AFAIK nothing has been ruled out as part of the review.

[abc]

heritage isn't a consideration with this Labor government, as we've already seen

[Spotto]

heritage isn't a consideration with this Labor government, as we've already seen

Seen where? They've been in power less than a year.

[cocoiadrop]

heritage isn't a consideration with this Labor government, as we've already seen

Seen where? They've been in power less than a year.

Presumably in reference to the nWCH

[MT269]

These abbreviations are sometimes difficult to translate. I assume you mean new Women's and children's hospital.

[cocoiadrop]

These abbreviations are sometimes difficult to translate. I assume you mean new Women's and children's hospital.

Yes

[abc]

heritage isn't a consideration with this Labor government, as we've already seen

Seen where? They've been in power less than a year.

Presumably in reference to the nWCH

correct

[ChillyPhilly]

Innovation and Science Minister Susan Close confirmed to InDaily that tenants, including world-leading health and science startups, must leave the Thebarton site as the Department of Infrastructure and Transport (DIT) will take control of its buildings with labs and offices, and surrounding land. The precinct is in an area bounded by West Thebarton Rd off South Rd, and the River Torrens.

The Malinauskas Government is this week expected to announce the design of the North-South Corridor’s Darlington to Torrens stage, taking in areas including Thebarton, Torrensville and Hindmarsh at the northern end.

Close said that in 2021, the Marshall Government approved having the incubator building and associated land transferred to control of the Infrastructure and Transport department and minister.

“It is expected that the Minister for Infrastructure and Transport will assume responsibility for the site via arrangements with the Department for Industry, Innovation and Science in the first half of 2023, to secure use of the site in connection with the North-South Corridor Torrens to Darlington Project,” Close said.

https://indaily.com.au/news/2022/12/12/ ... %20upgrade