News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

[SRW]

that's not true at all

suburban lifestyle is preferred to apartment living for most people... its the Australian way of life which many now seem to take for granted and want to turn the place into Europe but without all the historic sites and attractions

No... people want suburbs that are

a) accessible to everyone, including people without a car and people with less mobility
b) served with frequent public transport to places where people want to go
c) sustainable and affordable for people on low incomes (which is a significant portion of people living in outer sprawl)

This doesn't mean turning Adelaide "into Europe" or violating the so-called "Australian way of life", whatever that means in 2023

I think the irony of people saying 'moar suburbs' is that new suburbs scarcely offer the amenity they idealise of past suburbs, whereas increasing housing choice through strategic densification would actually lessen aggregate demand/competition for classic 'family' homes for those who need/want it. (Necessarily coupled with broader reforms such as moving away from stamp duty to land tax to remove disincentive to downsizing etc.)

[cocoiadrop]

I think the irony of people saying 'moar suburbs' is that new suburbs scarcely offer the amenity they idealise of past suburbs, whereas increasing housing choice through strategic densification would actually lessen aggregate demand/competition for classic 'family' homes for those who need/want it. (Necessarily coupled with broader reforms such as moving away from stamp duty to land tax to remove disincentive to downsizing etc.)

Yes seems many of these new suburbs are simply a street grid with detached housing on them with no amenities (or if there are, they're not a close walk away for many). Previous posts in this thread are right that these developments need to come with proper infrastructure behind them; a bus service at the very least.

[SRW]

I think the irony of people saying 'moar suburbs' is that new suburbs scarcely offer the amenity they idealise of past suburbs, whereas increasing housing choice through strategic densification would actually lessen aggregate demand/competition for classic 'family' homes for those who need/want it. (Necessarily coupled with broader reforms such as moving away from stamp duty to land tax to remove disincentive to downsizing etc.)

Yes seems many of these new suburbs are simply a street grid with detached housing on them with no amenities (or if there are, they're not a close walk away for many). Previous posts in this thread are right that these developments need to come with proper infrastructure behind them; a bus service at the very least.

I was speaking more to block amenity than neighbourhood. One of the common cries is backyards for kids to play, but current day block/housing proportions could barely fit a game of hopscotch.

[abc]

that's not true at all

suburban lifestyle is preferred to apartment living for most people... its the Australian way of life which many now seem to take for granted and want to turn the place into Europe but without all the historic sites and attractions

No... people want suburbs that are

a) accessible to everyone, including people without a car and people with less mobility
b) served with frequent public transport to places where people want to go
c) sustainable and affordable for people on low incomes (which is a significant portion of people living in outer sprawl)

This doesn't mean turning Adelaide "into Europe" or violating the so-called "Australian way of life", whatever that means in 2023

such disdain

[cocoiadrop]

I was speaking more to block amenity than neighbourhood. One of the common cries is backyards for kids to play, but current day block/housing proportions could barely fit a game of hopscotch.

Fair enough I misunderstood your overall point. That's a good point in regards to these new developments and makes me wonder what the appeal is. Either way, we're doing those new communities a disservice by not having them connected by something other than private cars.

such disdain

???

[rhino]

I think the irony of people saying 'moar suburbs' is that new suburbs scarcely offer the amenity they idealise of past suburbs, whereas increasing housing choice through strategic densification would actually lessen aggregate demand/competition for classic 'family' homes for those who need/want it. (Necessarily coupled with broader reforms such as moving away from stamp duty to land tax to remove disincentive to downsizing etc.)

I was speaking more to block amenity than neighbourhood. One of the common cries is backyards for kids to play, but current day block/housing proportions could barely fit a game of hopscotch

Totally agree. I also miss the corner deli, which was a short walk from anyone's house and sold the stuff people buy every day, or every second day. Having an OTR in the suburb is not quite the same

[ml69]

cross town bus services feeding to fewer stations, rather than radial bus services to the city would suit the RAA down to the ground. Lots of transfers from bus to fast rail are efficient. But try getting Adelaide PT users to accept transfers.

If the transfers are quick, easy and sensible then people will use them.

1-2 transfers would be the max tolerance for most people. Anything more than that isn’t worth trying to encourage.

For this to work, we need a CBD rail tunnel with an underground station near the middle of the CBD. So people then don’t spend another 15 minutes walking or taking a slow tram to their final destination like they frequently have to now.

Also large car parks are required at these outer suburban railway stations. I know that doesn’t sound very sexy, but it’s very practical for people living in the outer suburbs. Look how well it works for the Obahn.

The ideal model for us is Perth’s railway network. Perth is low-density like Adelaide. Coordinated bus and train schedules. Large well-lit car parks at railway stations. Fast, frequent trains. Joondalup and Mandurah rail lines both carry > 50,000 people per day.

[cocoiadrop]

Ideally instead of large car parks that generally subsidise car use anyway, the local bus networks should be better run and increased in size, with timetables that meet the train with a short wait. Would kill two birds with one stone too: greater connectivity to city, greater connectivity to local centres.

[Nort]

that's not true at all

suburban lifestyle is preferred to apartment living for most people... its the Australian way of life which many now seem to take for granted and want to turn the place into Europe but without all the historic sites and attractions

It's not an either/or choice between the traditional quarter acre block or living in an apartment.

If anyone is trying to impose a vision of turning the country into something it's people like you. In this thread most of us are talking about wanting to give people more viable options, including the type of housing you want.

[ChillyPhilly]

Two people struck by trains in two days.

Yesterday's incident was at Evanston, and today's at East Grange.

Hoping both people will be okay.

[Nathan]

Meanwhile, 9 months after someone died at North Adelaide station, there has still been zero action on bringing the active crossing online.

[Llessur2002]

Meanwhile, 9 months after someone died at North Adelaide station, there has still been zero action on bringing the active crossing online.

And I've noticed that since the incident there is quite often a police patrol car sitting next to it, sometimes with up to 4 people inside, presumably monitoring the crossing in some way. God only knows why they can't just get this fixed.

[abc]

cross town bus services feeding to fewer stations, rather than radial bus services to the city would suit the RAA down to the ground. Lots of transfers from bus to fast rail are efficient. But try getting Adelaide PT users to accept transfers.

If the transfers are quick, easy and sensible then people will use them.

1-2 transfers would be the max tolerance for most people. Anything more than that isn’t worth trying to encourage.

For this to work, we need a CBD rail tunnel with an underground station near the middle of the CBD. So people then don’t spend another 15 minutes walking or taking a slow tram to their final destination like they frequently have to now.

Also large car parks are required at these outer suburban railway stations. I know that doesn’t sound very sexy, but it’s very practical for people living in the outer suburbs. Look how well it works for the Obahn.

The ideal model for us is Perth’s railway network. Perth is low-density like Adelaide. Coordinated bus and train schedules. Large well-lit car parks at railway stations. Fast, frequent trains. Joondalup and Mandurah rail lines both carry > 50,000 people per day.

Perth is a rapidly growing city which will soon be twice the size of Adelaide
Adelaide is many decades away from needing underground stations

[Pistol]

Meanwhile, 9 months after someone died at North Adelaide station, there has still been zero action on bringing the active crossing online.

And I've noticed that since the incident there is quite often a police patrol car sitting next to it, sometimes with up to 4 people inside, presumably monitoring the crossing in some way. God only knows why they can't just get this fixed.

And the newly built Ovingham station has one active crossing commissioned, one still not available.
How is it so hard to get these things going?

[Llessur2002]

And the newly built Ovingham station has one active crossing commissioned, one still not available.
How is it so hard to get these things going?

When Croydon Station was rebuilt it took almost a year to get the active crossings up and running. There must be some technical complexity that isn't obvious.