News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

[Spotto]

Look, I think these are a great idea but….. why must they look so horrible?

If the shade of green wasn’t so bright it’s visible from space, the livery wouldn’t look so bad.

[Llessur2002]

I like it. It gives the kids (and me) something to look out for. Like Spotto, but for trains.

I've seen it in service a couple of times over the last few days but not yet for my service. I'm interested to find if it cuts the engine completely when stopped - ARS will be a nicer place if so.

[PeFe]

A lot of people on this forum seem obsessed with the livery (colour scheme) of the revamped diesel/electric trains but absolutely no discussion about the health benefits.

I, for one, do not want to breathe diesel fumes as 3000 class trains idle in the Adelaide Railway Station......it is an affront to modern air quality standards. The sooner the whole fleet is converted the better.

And as for the green colour......well it seems to be a talking point for the general populace.....maybe it has an upside attracting more people to use our "underloved and underutilised" train system.

[cocoiadrop]

People in this thread advocate for electrification of that line all the time. It’s a bit of a stretch to say we’re not discussing that (whether it be health benefits or just good transport policy).

The batteries are a good short term fix but they just need to get 25khz electrification done or something else. It’s kicking the can down the road and the pain of substitute buses and the money spent won’t be avoided.

[rubberman]

People in this thread advocate for electrification of that line all the time. It’s a bit of a stretch to say we’re not discussing that (whether it be health benefits or just good transport policy).

The batteries are a good short term fix but they just need to get 25khz electrification done or something else. It’s kicking the can down the road and the pain of substitute buses and the money spent won’t be avoided.

Why spend money now if the diesels can be kept going for another 10-15 years? The money saved could do other things like electrify the O-Bahn or extend the tram network in that time frame. If the hybrid railcar is successful, then that optimises the life of the existing railcars till the point where they are economically at end of life.

What is the argument for spending money before it's needed? Especially when other things need money spent on them.

[ChillyPhilly]

People in this thread advocate for electrification of that line all the time. It’s a bit of a stretch to say we’re not discussing that (whether it be health benefits or just good transport policy).

The batteries are a good short term fix but they just need to get 25khz electrification done or something else. It’s kicking the can down the road and the pain of substitute buses and the money spent won’t be avoided.

Why spend money now if the diesels can be kept going for another 10-15 years? The money saved could do other things like electrify the O-Bahn or extend the tram network in that time frame. If the hybrid railcar is successful, then that optimises the life of the existing railcars till the point where they are economically at end of life.

What is the argument for spending money before it's needed? Especially when other things need money spent on them.

I suppose the argument for spending money 'before' it's needed is that it will only be more expensive later.

[Llessur2002]

I've just walked past the green train at ARS. It's definitely much quieter at rest - there is still a noticeable motor-related noise but it sounded more AC-related than diesel, although it might have been the diesel running at a lower RPM than usual. It was hard to tell exactly what was going on as it was directly next to another 3000 class.

[rubberman]

People in this thread advocate for electrification of that line all the time. It’s a bit of a stretch to say we’re not discussing that (whether it be health benefits or just good transport policy).

The batteries are a good short term fix but they just need to get 25khz electrification done or something else. It’s kicking the can down the road and the pain of substitute buses and the money spent won’t be avoided.

Why spend money now if the diesels can be kept going for another 10-15 years? The money saved could do other things like electrify the O-Bahn or extend the tram network in that time frame. If the hybrid railcar is successful, then that optimises the life of the existing railcars till the point where they are economically at end of life.

What is the argument for spending money before it's needed? Especially when other things need money spent on them.

I suppose the argument for spending money 'before' it's needed is that it will only be more expensive later.

It could be more expensive later, possibly. However, if you consider interest at 4.5%, and assuming for a rough estimate that conversion of the Outer Harbor and Hills line together would cost as much as Gawler, then in ten years you pay at least an extra $400m just in interest. If you factor in that such a loan needs repayment, that's an extra $200m or so over the period. $550m! Yeah, nah.

Then, of course, in ten years, technology of all types will have improved. If we did the conversion now, then we miss out on those potential improvements.

Changing gears. I rode on the hybrids today, and was impressed. They appeared to run a lot quieter except when running flat out, and also seemed to take off faster. However, that's possibly just the driver, and hard to tell in one trip.

[RetroGamer87]

People in this thread advocate for electrification of that line all the time. It’s a bit of a stretch to say we’re not discussing that (whether it be health benefits or just good transport policy).

The batteries are a good short term fix but they just need to get 25khz electrification done or something else. It’s kicking the can down the road and the pain of substitute buses and the money spent won’t be avoided.

So, correct me if I'm wrong but they're planning to electrify the Outer Harbor line in the (very) long time but for some reason the Belair line can't be electrified, right?

[ChillyPhilly]

People in this thread advocate for electrification of that line all the time. It’s a bit of a stretch to say we’re not discussing that (whether it be health benefits or just good transport policy).

The batteries are a good short term fix but they just need to get 25khz electrification done or something else. It’s kicking the can down the road and the pain of substitute buses and the money spent won’t be avoided.

So, correct me if I'm wrong but they're planning to electrify the Outer Harbor line in the (very) long time but for some reason the Belair line can't be electrified, right?

No evidence to suggest 'planned' electrification of the OH/Grange lines, but basically the Belair line can't be electrified due to the low tunnel ceiling.

[Llessur2002]

I believe at this stage there are feasibility studies being undertaken for the long-term plans for the OH and Grange lines but most, if not all, options involve either battery or hydrogen technology with potential electrification of only small sections of the line to allow for battery recharging. I'm not sure if full electrification is being considered but from the discussions I had with someone connected to the project I didn't get the impression it was (or more accurately, I'd had a few beers at the time so my recollection of the conversation is hazy but I definitely came away with an alternative technology vibe).

To be honest, as a regular user of the line I'm leaning more towards an alternative approach if it cuts the need to close the line for a couple of years. Battery or battery hybrid options seem pretty attractive and should be feasible given the relatively short length of the line. Time will tell I guess.

[claybro]

I believe at this stage there are feasibility studies being undertaken for the long-term plans for the OH and Grange lines but most, if not all, options involve either battery or hydrogen technology with potential electrification of only small sections of the line to allow for battery recharging. I'm not sure if full electrification is being considered but from the discussions I had with someone connected to the project I didn't get the impression it was (or more accurately, I'd had a few beers at the time so my recollection of the conversation is hazy but I definitely came away with an alternative technology vibe).

To be honest, as a regular user of the line I'm leaning more towards an alternative approach if it cuts the need to close the line for a couple of years. Battery or battery hybrid options seem pretty attractive and should be feasible given the relatively short length of the line. Time will tell I guess.

Surely technology is at the point now where overhead charging points could be set up at stations to charge while stopped and at layover either end, with battery lasting for the in between bits? Does heavy rail draw too much power for a battery system? They are discussing a trial here in Perth for a trackless tram using stop only charging at the various stops/stations along Scarborough Beach road. Being light “ rail” though it might be different.

[rubberman]

I believe at this stage there are feasibility studies being undertaken for the long-term plans for the OH and Grange lines but most, if not all, options involve either battery or hydrogen technology with potential electrification of only small sections of the line to allow for battery recharging. I'm not sure if full electrification is being considered but from the discussions I had with someone connected to the project I didn't get the impression it was (or more accurately, I'd had a few beers at the time so my recollection of the conversation is hazy but I definitely came away with an alternative technology vibe).

To be honest, as a regular user of the line I'm leaning more towards an alternative approach if it cuts the need to close the line for a couple of years. Battery or battery hybrid options seem pretty attractive and should be feasible given the relatively short length of the line. Time will tell I guess.

Surely technology is at the point now where overhead charging points could be set up at stations to charge while stopped and at layover either end, with battery lasting for the in between bits? Does heavy rail draw too much power for a battery system? They are discussing a trial here in Perth for a trackless tram using stop only charging at the various stops/stations along Scarborough Beach road. Being light “ rail” though it might be different.

It's likely feasible to have the line electrified for much of its length and run on battery over difficult sections like the tunnels. However, with the steady improvement in battery technology, it's also likely to be a really economic option in ten years. For example, maybe half the line only needing to be electrified, while the batteries do the rest. This is already feasible for buses, and is proceeding in several cities in Europe. So, it's a definite prospect for heavy rail.

[Ho Really]

No evidence to suggest 'planned' electrification of the OH/Grange lines, but basically the Belair line can't be electrified due to the low tunnel ceiling.

Can't they lower the floor in the tunnels?

Cheers

[rubberman]

No evidence to suggest 'planned' electrification of the OH/Grange lines, but basically the Belair line can't be electrified due to the low tunnel ceiling.

Can't they lower the floor in the tunnels?

Cheers

Anything is possible. However, you'd have to stop rail freight to and from Adelaide/Melbourne for the several months it would likely take. It would have to be a last resort.