[U/C] M2 North-South Motorway

[mattblack]

so the traffic has nothing to do with record immigration and nor does the housing crisis

rightio...its just a right wing conspiracy then

back to sleep

Increasing traffic has everything to do with planning decisions by pro-car governments. It is not connected to migration increases.

Correct.

Reduction in migration will reduce pressure on housing and traffic. Great, it will also reduce the unemployment rate to full employment where there are no more people to fill jobs which will curtail growth as business can't employ people and demand is reduced.

Australia has always been a immigrant country I really can't see how anything has changed. Unemployment is near to historic lows which means all these immigrants are coming here to work growing our economy.

A drastic reduction in immigration would b shooting ourselves in the foot just to appease those who think immigrants are the root of all evil. That's what's wrong with me abc.

[SBD]

it takes time to build houses mate

houses don't build themselves - they need various tradies and professionals too, as well as time. Apparently we don't even have enough surveyors to subdivide the land and mark out where to build the house!

Australia isn't short of people, it is short of is good management and governance.

Maybe the new Technical High Schools that replace the ones closed a generation ago will turn out hordes of builders, carpenters, bricklayers, concreters, tilers and electricians. Until then, we have delays in construction.if those students all come out to do those jobs, we will be short of whatever they aren’t doing instead.

[abc]

so the traffic has nothing to do with record immigration and nor does the housing crisis

rightio...its just a right wing conspiracy then

back to sleep

Increasing traffic has everything to do with planning decisions by pro-car governments. It is not connected to migration increases.

Correct.

Reduction in migration will reduce pressure on housing and traffic. Great, it will also reduce the unemployment rate to full employment where there are no more people to fill jobs which will curtail growth as business can't employ people and demand is reduced.

Australia has always been a immigrant country I really can't see how anything has changed. Unemployment is near to historic lows which means all these immigrants are coming here to work growing our economy.

A drastic reduction in immigration would b shooting ourselves in the foot just to appease those who think immigrants are the root of all evil. That's what's wrong with me abc.

what are you even talking about

[mattblack]

Increasing traffic has everything to do with planning decisions by pro-car governments. It is not connected to migration increases.

Correct.

Reduction in migration will reduce pressure on housing and traffic. Great, it will also reduce the unemployment rate to full employment where there are no more people to fill jobs which will curtail growth as business can't employ people and demand is reduced.

Australia has always been a immigrant country I really can't see how anything has changed. Unemployment is near to historic lows which means all these immigrants are coming here to work growing our economy.

A drastic reduction in immigration would b shooting ourselves in the foot just to appease those who think immigrants are the root of all evil. That's what's wrong with me abc.

what are you even talking about

The bigger picture. A concept that seems very difficult for some. just stick with immigrants are causing traffic jams, it suits you.

[Nort]

Basically an increase in population doesn't necessarily increase congestion, bad urban planning does, such as increasingly sprawling out our suburbs.

[abc]

once again, urban planning, building infrastructure and housing takes time

if you suddenly increase immigration to record levels you can't blame the urban planning and infrastructure. You blame the idiots who decided to increase immigration to levels beyond capacity and what was planned for.
You don't sell 100k tickets to a game at Adelaide Oval then blame the planners of Adelaide Oval for being beyond capacity. You blame the moron who sold 100k tickets FFS.

Nobody is blaming 'immigrants'. This trope is some kind of spell all you leftists are under.

[Saltwater]

Basically what we've discovered is that if you have roads A, B and C that run north-south through the western suburbs of a city, and connect new expressways to the northern and southern ends of road B, that road approaches capacity very quickly.

It shouldn't have come as too much of a surprise to anyone, unfortunately the last remaining T2D section was placed in the "too hard" basket for too long, and while it's great to have clarity now, I hate to think what the situation will look like closer to completion when people are already rat-running through side streets (see Brooker Terrace in the mornings), and east-west connectivity is already restricted.

[rev]

What ABC is saying, it appears, is that infrastructure/housing needs to catch up, before we keep bringing in half a million people yearly.

Problem - not enough houses/too many people.
Therefore adding more people, when we still don't have enough houses, exacerbates the problem and other knock on effects.

Which is quite a sensible and logical opinion to have.

[rev]

Basically what we've discovered is that if you have roads A, B and C that run north-south through the western suburbs of a city, and connect new expressways to the northern and southern ends of road B, that road approaches capacity very quickly.

It shouldn't have come as too much of a surprise to anyone, unfortunately the last remaining T2D section was placed in the "too hard" basket for too long, and while it's great to have clarity now, I hate to think what the situation will look like closer to completion when people are already rat-running through side streets (see Brooker Terrace in the mornings), and east-west connectivity is already restricted.

The whole corridor was in the too hard basket for too long. But at least they started fixing it bit by bit.
Logically they did the easier bits first. With them done, there's now pressure to do the remainder. Which is a good strategy because regardless of whose in government, they'd be under pressure to fix it sooner rather then later.
And we saw when the Liberals did get into government, they didn't scrap the project or put it on the back burner, they rejigged it to their liking.
So I guess if that was the strategy by a former Labor government that got the ball rolling on the north south corridor, well done.

[Westside]

What ABC is saying, it appears, is that infrastructure/housing needs to catch up, before we keep bringing in half a million people yearly.

Problem - not enough houses/too many people.
Therefore adding more people, when we still don't have enough houses, exacerbates the problem and other knock on effects.

Which is quite a sensible and logical opinion to have.

Except its the premise of the conclusion that is incorrect and furthering an outdated notion. The reason for the past 2 years of increased migration is because the previous 2 years had near zero migration. All we've done is processed the backlog to get back to expected increases.
I don't see anyone blaming the huge birth rate increase which has also seen a similar bounce after 2 years of a significant reduction.

Yes, more people need more houses, but blaming immigrants is just lazy and shows baked in casual racism. It's like blaming the cyclist on the road in front of your car for causing congestion and not all the other cars, including your own, which contributes more that congestion.

What we need is to ensure migration is targeted at meeting our country's needs and continuing to find solutions to the other problems, like supply chain issues and competition with interstate projects for the same resources.

[abc]

What ABC is saying, it appears, is that infrastructure/housing needs to catch up, before we keep bringing in half a million people yearly.

Problem - not enough houses/too many people.
Therefore adding more people, when we still don't have enough houses, exacerbates the problem and other knock on effects.

Which is quite a sensible and logical opinion to have.

Except its the premise of the conclusion that is incorrect and furthering an outdated notion. The reason for the past 2 years of increased migration is because the previous 2 years had near zero migration. All we've done is processed the backlog to get back to expected increases.
I don't see anyone blaming the huge birth rate increase which has also seen a similar bounce after 2 years of a significant reduction.

Yes, more people need more houses, but blaming immigrants is just lazy and shows baked in casual racism. It's like blaming the cyclist on the road in front of your car for causing congestion and not all the other cars, including your own, which contributes more that congestion.

What we need is to ensure migration is targeted at meeting our country's needs and continuing to find solutions to the other problems, like supply chain issues and competition with interstate projects for the same resources.

what is wrong with you?

do you completely lack comprehension skills or are you looking for an excuse to project your ideology?

[rev]

What ABC is saying, it appears, is that infrastructure/housing needs to catch up, before we keep bringing in half a million people yearly.

Problem - not enough houses/too many people.
Therefore adding more people, when we still don't have enough houses, exacerbates the problem and other knock on effects.

Which is quite a sensible and logical opinion to have.

Except its the premise of the conclusion that is incorrect and furthering an outdated notion. The reason for the past 2 years of increased migration is because the previous 2 years had near zero migration. All we've done is processed the backlog to get back to expected increases.
I don't see anyone blaming the huge birth rate increase which has also seen a similar bounce after 2 years of a significant reduction.

Yes, more people need more houses, but blaming immigrants is just lazy and shows baked in casual racism. It's like blaming the cyclist on the road in front of your car for causing congestion and not all the other cars, including your own, which contributes more that congestion.

What we need is to ensure migration is targeted at meeting our country's needs and continuing to find solutions to the other problems, like supply chain issues and competition with interstate projects for the same resources.

Perhaps it is 'processing a backlog' due to covid border closures.
However that doesn't go to say that we should have been accepting all of those people to begin with.
Our infrastructure was over-stretched and we were in a housing shortage well before covid.

But I agree migration should be targeted to meet the needs we have. We don't have an urgent need for uber drivers and cleaners and fast food workers.


This isn't the 1960's and 1970's where Australia was scarce of people but wanting to expand it's industrial output and therefore accepting tens of thousands of migrants made sense (my grand parents being among those who migrated here).
We don't have enough tradies? The issue isn't we don't have enough people. The issue is policy. Governments are failing.
Their quick/easy fix solution is import people.
That's all well and good, it might fix that problem short term. But then the same solution is applied to other industries and sectors. And before long, the number of people on welfare has grown.
The number of people who, due to not having stable employment, turn to drugs or crime, or both, or end up homeless, grows. That compounds social issues.

[A-Town]

What ABC is saying, it appears, is that infrastructure/housing needs to catch up, before we keep bringing in half a million people yearly.

Problem - not enough houses/too many people.
Therefore adding more people, when we still don't have enough houses, exacerbates the problem and other knock on effects.

Which is quite a sensible and logical opinion to have.

Except its the premise of the conclusion that is incorrect and furthering an outdated notion. The reason for the past 2 years of increased migration is because the previous 2 years had near zero migration. All we've done is processed the backlog to get back to expected increases.
I don't see anyone blaming the huge birth rate increase which has also seen a similar bounce after 2 years of a significant reduction.

Yes, more people need more houses, but blaming immigrants is just lazy and shows baked in casual racism. It's like blaming the cyclist on the road in front of your car for causing congestion and not all the other cars, including your own, which contributes more that congestion.

What we need is to ensure migration is targeted at meeting our country's needs and continuing to find solutions to the other problems, like supply chain issues and competition with interstate projects for the same resources.

What 'huge birth rate increase' are you talking about? Birth rates have long been on the decline in Australia. In 2022 there was a 3% decrease in births from 2021, and Australia's birth rate has been below the 2.1 replacement rate for decades. https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/peopl ... st-release

One of the key reasons federal Labor allowed for record high levels of migration over the last two years has been to prevent a recession occurring. Whilst the government was successful in avoiding recession, it has led to a huge shortfall in housing stock and unsustainable prices as abc and others have alluded to.

[Westside]

what is wrong with you?

do you completely lack comprehension skills or are you looking for an excuse to project your ideology?

Thank you for your insightful reply. Having an open mind and understanding how facts work isn't really an ideology.

[abc]

What ABC is saying, it appears, is that infrastructure/housing needs to catch up, before we keep bringing in half a million people yearly.

Problem - not enough houses/too many people.
Therefore adding more people, when we still don't have enough houses, exacerbates the problem and other knock on effects.

Which is quite a sensible and logical opinion to have.

Except its the premise of the conclusion that is incorrect and furthering an outdated notion. The reason for the past 2 years of increased migration is because the previous 2 years had near zero migration. All we've done is processed the backlog to get back to expected increases.
I don't see anyone blaming the huge birth rate increase which has also seen a similar bounce after 2 years of a significant reduction.

Yes, more people need more houses, but blaming immigrants is just lazy and shows baked in casual racism. It's like blaming the cyclist on the road in front of your car for causing congestion and not all the other cars, including your own, which contributes more that congestion.

What we need is to ensure migration is targeted at meeting our country's needs and continuing to find solutions to the other problems, like supply chain issues and competition with interstate projects for the same resources.

What 'huge birth rate increase' are you talking about? Birth rates have long been on the decline in Australia. In 2022 there was a 3% decrease in births from 2021, and Australia's birth rate has been below the 2.1 replacement rate for decades. https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/peopl ... st-release

One of the key reasons federal Labor allowed for record high levels of migration over the last two years has been to prevent a recession occurring. Whilst the government was successful in avoiding recession, it has led to a huge shortfall in housing stock and unsustainable prices as abc and others have alluded to.

Exactly, it was pure cynical politics to keep housing prices buoyant and avoid a technical recession. It will likely backfire at the next election though for Mr 30% as the fallout from this which includes the social cost will be felt for a generation at least. I see it firsthand here living in the City of Adelaide.