News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure

[SBD]

Why would anyone want to start a business in South Australia?

https://x.com/7NewsAdelaide/status/1769 ... 22276?s=20

That felt like a political attack ad, far enough out from the general election that they don't want to propose solutions in case the current government has time to implement them.

I couldn't work out why the "small business" in the example was removing her stock from the fridge before turning it off. Did she over-produce and the excess is being chucked out, or is she letting stuff warm up that will be cooled again tomorrow when she turns her fridge back on? Electricity prices seemed to being blamed as a proxy for poor stock management or demand forecasting. Perhaps she should make less, and accept that some days she can knock off early because she sold out of the day's stock.

Channel 7 is generally pro Labour

South Australia has the highest energy prices is a fact.

Is there a public source of the cost of electricity from each generator over time? We seem to have a large wind farm under construction, and two small and the rest of one large gas generator being decommissioned in the next few years. There are other wind farms (and solar?) proposed but not yet under construction, and the government proposal for a hydrogen system.

The spot market price is the highest price bid by any generator in that time period. Overall, we need the highest price available to be reduced. I don't know if we can find out which generator sets the price at any moment and whether there can be any collusion identified.

The long periods when the spot price is negative probably act as a disincentive to investing in new generation. It looks like they coincide everywhere, so maybe the opportunistic load to make hydrogen will help (eventually).

[rev]

They keep investing in large scale solar & wind farms, and tell us power prices will come down.
Power prices then go up, then they tell us its because of "gas", or the cost of the ageing grid repair/maintenance/upkeep work is expensive.

So why are we still relying on the grid, if the grid is ageing and extremely costly to maintain, if the technology exists to rid our selves of reliance on the grid and be self sufficient in our own homes?

They're pissing away our money, and we're no better off for it.


Going off-grid with your electricity is not illegal in Australia. It is just cost prohibitive for the majority.

I think this is exactly the point.
You should be self sufficient and you would save money.
Install solar and batteries.
You would save money and you would stop being the burden depending on the old aging infrastructure.
That is exactly the point.

Cool. So you got $20,000+ for us all to stop being a burden?

That's my point.
Majority of people can not afford that outlay.

That is exactly the point.


But the government sure does have billions to throw at large scale commercial projects.

[SBD]

They keep investing in large scale solar & wind farms, and tell us power prices will come down.
Power prices then go up, then they tell us its because of "gas", or the cost of the ageing grid repair/maintenance/upkeep work is expensive.

So why are we still relying on the grid, if the grid is ageing and extremely costly to maintain, if the technology exists to rid our selves of reliance on the grid and be self sufficient in our own homes?

They're pissing away our money, and we're no better off for it.


Going off-grid with your electricity is not illegal in Australia. It is just cost prohibitive for the majority.

I think this is exactly the point.
You should be self sufficient and you would save money.
Install solar and batteries.
You would save money and you would stop being the burden depending on the old aging infrastructure.
That is exactly the point.

Cool. So you got $20,000+ for us all to stop being a burden?

That's my point.
Majority of people can not afford that outlay.

That is exactly the point.


But the government sure does have billions to throw at large scale commercial projects.

Being in a connected network also provides advantages in the area of redundancy and consistency. It's a bit like insurance. Most of the time, any particular individual would be better off to not pay insurance premiums and put their money in the bank instead. Sometimes some people are not.

[rubberman]

They keep investing in large scale solar & wind farms, and tell us power prices will come down.
Power prices then go up, then they tell us its because of "gas", or the cost of the ageing grid repair/maintenance/upkeep work is expensive.

So why are we still relying on the grid, if the grid is ageing and extremely costly to maintain, if the technology exists to rid our selves of reliance on the grid and be self sufficient in our own homes?

They're pissing away our money, and we're no better off for it.


Going off-grid with your electricity is not illegal in Australia. It is just cost prohibitive for the majority.

I think this is exactly the point.
You should be self sufficient and you would save money.
Install solar and batteries.
You would save money and you would stop being the burden depending on the old aging infrastructure.
That is exactly the point.

Cool. So you got $20,000+ for us all to stop being a burden?

That's my point.
Majority of people can not afford that outlay.

That is exactly the point.


But the government sure does have billions to throw at large scale commercial projects.

High prices were guaranteed when the Port Augusta power stations were decommissioned so suddenly.

That, is the cause of your angst.

Renewables were one of the things that lowered prices. That is both at grid and home scale.

I don't know why people want to rant about renewables, when it was decommissioning of Port Augusta that had the biggest effect.

Looks like classic misdirection to me.

[SBD]

I think this is exactly the point.
You should be self sufficient and you would save money.
Install solar and batteries.
You would save money and you would stop being the burden depending on the old aging infrastructure.
That is exactly the point.

Cool. So you got $20,000+ for us all to stop being a burden?

That's my point.
Majority of people can not afford that outlay.

That is exactly the point.


But the government sure does have billions to throw at large scale commercial projects.

High prices were guaranteed when the Port Augusta power stations were decommissioned so suddenly.

That, is the cause of your angst.

Renewables were one of the things that lowered prices. That is both at grid and home scale.

I don't know why people want to rant about renewables, when it was decommissioning of Port Augusta that had the biggest effect.

Looks like classic misdirection to me.

There will be a new round of complaints soon. AGL has announced it intends to close what's left of Torrens Island Power Station at the end of June 2026. Engie intends to close the diesel-powered turbines at Snuggery and Port Lincoln from 1 July this year.

There are a lot of different agencies involved in electricity. Engie says it is closing these plants because a $9m/year contract with ElectraNet expired and was not renewed. Supposedly "A change in the proposed design of the capacity mechanism to remove any support for older thermal plants eliminated the possibility of extra revenue." without saying who's change that was. AEMO is "considering the impact", and aparently they've operated less than 1% of the time.

Quotes from https://www.afr.com/companies/energy/en ... 206-p5f2ra published 6 Feb 2024.

[mrumley02]

Link: https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/sou ... 6309277e33

ZEN Energy big battery at Templers, north of Adelaide, set to become state’s second-biggest by storage capacity

Construction of another big battery – set to become the second-biggest by storage capacity in South Australia – will take place north of Adelaide, after plans cleared their final hurdle.
Local company ZEN Energy and the state government will on Tuesday announce that construction of the 111 Megawatt, 291 Megawatt-hour battery will start at Templers, 60km north of the CBD, after a final investment decision was made.

More than 180 jobs will be created by the project, which is being funded by ZEN and partner investors – but has been made possible because of a long-term state government energy contract.

ElectraNet, owner and operator of the state’s high-voltage transmission network, will build and maintain a dedicated connection to the Templers battery.

The state’s first big battery, built by Tesla, is Hornsdale Power Reserve in the Mid-North, which was connected to the grid at the end of 2017.

The biggest battery is now operated by AGL Energy at Torrens Island.

Energy and Mining Minister Tom Koutsantonis said SA “led the pack” by investing in Hornsdale, and the state was now home to six grid-connected batteries with a total capacity of more than 500MW.

“These investments are a big vote of confidence in our state’s ambitious plan to get to net zero emissions in energy production by 2027, and to help the world along the pathway to decarbonisation,” he said.

“Like South Australia, ZEN was an early mover in the renewable energy space. It’s great to see a homegrown success story joining us in the journey to a decarbonised economy.”

ZEN Energy chief executive Anthony Garnaut said realising the final investment decision for the Templers battery was a “key milestone in ZEN’s significant growth” and marked its first 100 per cent owned major asset.

“The South Australian government, through committing to a long-term contract with a renewable retailer has enabled this significant investment in further stabilising the supply of renewable, affordable energy into South Australia,” he said.

[rev]

There will be a new round of complaints soon. AGL has announced it intends to close what's left of Torrens Island Power Station at the end of June 2026. Engie intends to close the diesel-powered turbines at Snuggery and Port Lincoln from 1 July this year.

There are a lot of different agencies involved in electricity. Engie says it is closing these plants because a $9m/year contract with ElectraNet expired and was not renewed. Supposedly "A change in the proposed design of the capacity mechanism to remove any support for older thermal plants eliminated the possibility of extra revenue." without saying who's change that was. AEMO is "considering the impact", and aparently they've operated less than 1% of the time.

Quotes from https://www.afr.com/companies/energy/en ... 206-p5f2ra published 6 Feb 2024.

We get told renewables will make electricity cheaper for consumers.
Fossil fuel powered plants close down. Electricity prices shoot through the roof.

People in ideological comas blame the closure of the fossil fuel powered plants.
But hang on, weren't large scale renewables the saving grace that would bring down prices, and big bad fossil fuels were the reason our power prices were up? Wasn't it gas power generation that cause higher prices, oh wait hang on before that it was expensive to maintain coal fired power stations.


Damn straight there'll be complaints. Because we're being lied to and rorted.

Some in here suffer from Stockholm syndrome, and the government and corporations are the abusers.

[SBD]

There will be a new round of complaints soon. AGL has announced it intends to close what's left of Torrens Island Power Station at the end of June 2026. Engie intends to close the diesel-powered turbines at Snuggery and Port Lincoln from 1 July this year.

There are a lot of different agencies involved in electricity. Engie says it is closing these plants because a $9m/year contract with ElectraNet expired and was not renewed. Supposedly "A change in the proposed design of the capacity mechanism to remove any support for older thermal plants eliminated the possibility of extra revenue." without saying who's change that was. AEMO is "considering the impact", and aparently they've operated less than 1% of the time.

Quotes from https://www.afr.com/companies/energy/en ... 206-p5f2ra published 6 Feb 2024.

We get told renewables will make electricity cheaper for consumers.
Fossil fuel powered plants close down. Electricity prices shoot through the roof.

People in ideological comas blame the closure of the fossil fuel powered plants.
But hang on, weren't large scale renewables the saving grace that would bring down prices, and big bad fossil fuels were the reason our power prices were up? Wasn't it gas power generation that cause higher prices, oh wait hang on before that it was expensive to maintain coal fired power stations.


Damn straight there'll be complaints. Because we're being lied to and rorted.

Some in here suffer from Stockholm syndrome, and the government and corporations are the abusers.

I wonder what it costs to maintain an always-ready but never-running diesel-fueled gas turbine. That's essentially what is being retired. Since the current owners appear to have no future plan for the sites, it's possible they'd be open to selling them to someone else, but they appear unlikely to get any contract other than selling in to the spot market. If diesel turbines were cheaper to run, one of the electricity retailers would buy them or offer an offtake contract so the could undercut the renewable energy peddled by their opposition. Maybe the State government will buy them, since the Liberals sold the turbines bought by the Wetherill Government.

To me, the last two weeks show we need a lot more storage. Maybe I just can't see curtailed generators, but the imports and gas used on hot still nights look like batteries, pumped hydro or turning electrolysed hydrogen back in to water are still needed for the forseeable future.

[rev]

There will be a new round of complaints soon. AGL has announced it intends to close what's left of Torrens Island Power Station at the end of June 2026. Engie intends to close the diesel-powered turbines at Snuggery and Port Lincoln from 1 July this year.

There are a lot of different agencies involved in electricity. Engie says it is closing these plants because a $9m/year contract with ElectraNet expired and was not renewed. Supposedly "A change in the proposed design of the capacity mechanism to remove any support for older thermal plants eliminated the possibility of extra revenue." without saying who's change that was. AEMO is "considering the impact", and aparently they've operated less than 1% of the time.

Quotes from https://www.afr.com/companies/energy/en ... 206-p5f2ra published 6 Feb 2024.

We get told renewables will make electricity cheaper for consumers.
Fossil fuel powered plants close down. Electricity prices shoot through the roof.

People in ideological comas blame the closure of the fossil fuel powered plants.
But hang on, weren't large scale renewables the saving grace that would bring down prices, and big bad fossil fuels were the reason our power prices were up? Wasn't it gas power generation that cause higher prices, oh wait hang on before that it was expensive to maintain coal fired power stations.


Damn straight there'll be complaints. Because we're being lied to and rorted.

Some in here suffer from Stockholm syndrome, and the government and corporations are the abusers.

I wonder what it costs to maintain an always-ready but never-running diesel-fueled gas turbine. That's essentially what is being retired. Since the current owners appear to have no future plan for the sites, it's possible they'd be open to selling them to someone else, but they appear unlikely to get any contract other than selling in to the spot market. If diesel turbines were cheaper to run, one of the electricity retailers would buy them or offer an offtake contract so the could undercut the renewable energy peddled by their opposition. Maybe the State government will buy them, since the Liberals sold the turbines bought by the Wetherill Government.

To me, the last two weeks show we need a lot more storage. Maybe I just can't see curtailed generators, but the imports and gas used on hot still nights look like batteries, pumped hydro or turning electrolysed hydrogen back in to water are still needed for the forseeable future.

I don't know what's cheaper or more expensive to run. I'm not going to read a couple of biased articles like the know it alls in here and then profess to know everything.

What I do know is that we're told large scale renewables will make our power cheaper. Not only do we not have cheaper power, we have more expensive power.
We're told it's because fossil fuel powered plants are expensive to operate.
When fossil fuel powered stations shut down, the prices jump up. The excuse then changes to blaming gas powered generation.

[SBD]

We get told renewables will make electricity cheaper for consumers.
Fossil fuel powered plants close down. Electricity prices shoot through the roof.

People in ideological comas blame the closure of the fossil fuel powered plants.
But hang on, weren't large scale renewables the saving grace that would bring down prices, and big bad fossil fuels were the reason our power prices were up? Wasn't it gas power generation that cause higher prices, oh wait hang on before that it was expensive to maintain coal fired power stations.


Damn straight there'll be complaints. Because we're being lied to and rorted.

Some in here suffer from Stockholm syndrome, and the government and corporations are the abusers.

I wonder what it costs to maintain an always-ready but never-running diesel-fueled gas turbine. That's essentially what is being retired. Since the current owners appear to have no future plan for the sites, it's possible they'd be open to selling them to someone else, but they appear unlikely to get any contract other than selling in to the spot market. If diesel turbines were cheaper to run, one of the electricity retailers would buy them or offer an offtake contract so the could undercut the renewable energy peddled by their opposition. Maybe the State government will buy them, since the Liberals sold the turbines bought by the Wetherill Government.

To me, the last two weeks show we need a lot more storage. Maybe I just can't see curtailed generators, but the imports and gas used on hot still nights look like batteries, pumped hydro or turning electrolysed hydrogen back in to water are still needed for the forseeable future.

I don't know what's cheaper or more expensive to run. I'm not going to read a couple of biased articles like the know it alls in here and then profess to know everything.

What I do know is that we're told large scale renewables will make our power cheaper. Not only do we not have cheaper power, we have more expensive power.
We're told it's because fossil fuel powered plants are expensive to operate.
When fossil fuel powered stations shut down, the prices jump up. The excuse then changes to blaming gas powered generation.

News today is that Default Market Offer will reduce by a few percent in July. That's still only a "draft ruling" at the moment. There is another round of consultation to make it final.

[rubberman]

There will be a new round of complaints soon. AGL has announced it intends to close what's left of Torrens Island Power Station at the end of June 2026. Engie intends to close the diesel-powered turbines at Snuggery and Port Lincoln from 1 July this year.

There are a lot of different agencies involved in electricity. Engie says it is closing these plants because a $9m/year contract with ElectraNet expired and was not renewed. Supposedly "A change in the proposed design of the capacity mechanism to remove any support for older thermal plants eliminated the possibility of extra revenue." without saying who's change that was. AEMO is "considering the impact", and aparently they've operated less than 1% of the time.

Quotes from https://www.afr.com/companies/energy/en ... 206-p5f2ra published 6 Feb 2024.

We get told renewables will make electricity cheaper for consumers.
Fossil fuel powered plants close down. Electricity prices shoot through the roof.

People in ideological comas blame the closure of the fossil fuel powered plants.
But hang on, weren't large scale renewables the saving grace that would bring down prices, and big bad fossil fuels were the reason our power prices were up? Wasn't it gas power generation that cause higher prices, oh wait hang on before that it was expensive to maintain coal fired power stations.


Damn straight there'll be complaints. Because we're being lied to and rorted.

Some in here suffer from Stockholm syndrome, and the government and corporations are the abusers.

Lolol.

When the Port Augusta power stations closed. A huge chunk of supply was removed from the market. What does economics 101 say about supply and demand? It says prices go up.

When you then add supply to a market, eg via renewables, then the pressure on prices is the other way.

So, not only does the assertion that renewables are the cause of increased prices fly in the face of all economic theory, it's not something that happens anywhere else with a free market. Further, it flies in the face of all common sense.

It's. A. Nonsense.

Further. Let's just think. Think. Imagine if homeowners with solar and renewable generators got sick of disinformation like this, and decided, as a demonstration, to switch off for a day, and take all their need from the grid. Apart from the blackouts, the price would skyrocket. Then you'd certainly have a case of wallet pain.

Call people all the names you like rev, but the fact is that your position flies in the face of every single free market theory out there, and of every economist, both left and right wing, and every day experience of ordinary people.

Instead of resorting to name calling, how about you justify your extraordinary assertion? Without logical fallacy.

[PeFe]

SA power bills set to drop.....should be a bigger drop considering the average wholesale price in SA (3.7 cents per kwh in the December quarter)

From Indaily

SA power bills set to drop after energy regulator decision

Average South Australian households and businesses will pay lower electricity bills from July 1 under a draft ruling from the national energy regulator.


SA average power bills are set to drop from July after a draft ruling from the Australian Energy Regulator. Photo: AAP

The Australian Energy Regulator on Tuesday released its draft Default Market Offer (DMO), known as DMO 6, for energy prices in 2024/25.

The default market offer, which will apply to consumers in South Australia, NSW and parts of Queensland, is a price cap on how much retailers can charge customers on their default plans.

“At this time, it is estimated that price changes for all residential and small business customers on standard retail plans will be less than the rate of inflation,” the regulator said on Tuesday.

The majority of residential customers could see price reductions of between 0.4 per cent to 7.1 per cent, it added.

The remaining residential customers may see increases between 0.9 per cent and 2.7 per cent, depending on their region and whether they have controlled load.

Most small business customers could see reductions between 0.3 per cent and 9.7 per cent while others could face modest increases of around 0.7 per cent, depending on their region.

“We know that economic conditions have put pressure on many Australians and the increases in electricity prices over the last two years has made energy less affordable for many households,” AER chair Clare Savage said in a statement.

“In light of this, the AER has, in this decision, placed increased weight on protecting consumers.”

South Australian Energy Minister Tom Koutsantonis said today’s decision would see power prices in this state drop by an average 2.5 per cent or $57 for households, and 8.2 per cent or $481 for small business.

The state government said that increasing renewable energy generation had cut wholesale electricity costs, which were the main factor in the AER’s draft decision to cut prices.

It said that “poles-and-wires network charges” in retail bills will increase by less than expected because of a change in accounting classification for some work performed by distributor SA Power Networks. The charges will include sharing the cost of repairs following the River Murray floods and transmission upgrades.

Koutsantonis said that households and businesses had been under inflation and cost of living pressure and the price cuts “show energy prices are going in the right direction”.

“We’ve been saying for months we expect to see reductions in wholesale costs reflected in the retail prices handed down by the Australian Energy Regulator, and that is exactly what has happened,” he said.

“The regulator’s reasons for these cuts verify what we have been saying for the past two years – the global gas price shock from Russia’s invasion of Ukraine caused high power prices here.”

Koutsantonis said the state government was “making SA more resilient against such shocks” by developing its Hydrogen Jobs Plan and supporting new renewable generators and batteries, with ZEN Energy today announcing construction of a 111-Megawatt battery at Templers in the Mid North.

https://www.indaily.com.au/business/ene ... r-decision

[rev]

SA power bills set to drop.....should be a bigger drop considering the average wholesale price in SA (3.7 cents per kwh in the December quarter)

From Indaily

SA power bills set to drop after energy regulator decision

Average South Australian households and businesses will pay lower electricity bills from July 1 under a draft ruling from the national energy regulator.


SA average power bills are set to drop from July after a draft ruling from the Australian Energy Regulator. Photo: AAP

The Australian Energy Regulator on Tuesday released its draft Default Market Offer (DMO), known as DMO 6, for energy prices in 2024/25.

The default market offer, which will apply to consumers in South Australia, NSW and parts of Queensland, is a price cap on how much retailers can charge customers on their default plans.

“At this time, it is estimated that price changes for all residential and small business customers on standard retail plans will be less than the rate of inflation,” the regulator said on Tuesday.

The majority of residential customers could see price reductions of between 0.4 per cent to 7.1 per cent, it added.

The remaining residential customers may see increases between 0.9 per cent and 2.7 per cent, depending on their region and whether they have controlled load.

Most small business customers could see reductions between 0.3 per cent and 9.7 per cent while others could face modest increases of around 0.7 per cent, depending on their region.

“We know that economic conditions have put pressure on many Australians and the increases in electricity prices over the last two years has made energy less affordable for many households,” AER chair Clare Savage said in a statement.

“In light of this, the AER has, in this decision, placed increased weight on protecting consumers.”

South Australian Energy Minister Tom Koutsantonis said today’s decision would see power prices in this state drop by an average 2.5 per cent or $57 for households, and 8.2 per cent or $481 for small business.

The state government said that increasing renewable energy generation had cut wholesale electricity costs, which were the main factor in the AER’s draft decision to cut prices.

It said that “poles-and-wires network charges” in retail bills will increase by less than expected because of a change in accounting classification for some work performed by distributor SA Power Networks. The charges will include sharing the cost of repairs following the River Murray floods and transmission upgrades.

Koutsantonis said that households and businesses had been under inflation and cost of living pressure and the price cuts “show energy prices are going in the right direction”.

“We’ve been saying for months we expect to see reductions in wholesale costs reflected in the retail prices handed down by the Australian Energy Regulator, and that is exactly what has happened,” he said.

“The regulator’s reasons for these cuts verify what we have been saying for the past two years – the global gas price shock from Russia’s invasion of Ukraine caused high power prices here.”

Koutsantonis said the state government was “making SA more resilient against such shocks” by developing its Hydrogen Jobs Plan and supporting new renewable generators and batteries, with ZEN Energy today announcing construction of a 111-Megawatt battery at Templers in the Mid North.

https://www.indaily.com.au/business/ene ... r-decision

More promises.

Should we take bets(non financial) on whether power prices will drop because of this, or not like all the other broken promises?

[mattblack]

Why would anyone want to start a business in South Australia?

https://x.com/7NewsAdelaide/status/1769 ... 22276?s=20

That felt like a political attack ad, far enough out from the general election that they don't want to propose solutions in case the current government has time to implement them.

I couldn't work out why the "small business" in the example was removing her stock from the fridge before turning it off. Did she over-produce and the excess is being chucked out, or is she letting stuff warm up that will be cooled again tomorrow when she turns her fridge back on? Electricity prices seemed to being blamed as a proxy for poor stock management or demand forecasting. Perhaps she should make less, and accept that some days she can knock off early because she sold out of the day's stock.

Channel 7 is generally pro Labour

South Australia has the highest energy prices is a fact.

Source??

As you have said not including it is not good etiquette and may not be meeting your legal obligations- Chanel 7 not included.

[rev]

There will be a new round of complaints soon. AGL has announced it intends to close what's left of Torrens Island Power Station at the end of June 2026. Engie intends to close the diesel-powered turbines at Snuggery and Port Lincoln from 1 July this year.

There are a lot of different agencies involved in electricity. Engie says it is closing these plants because a $9m/year contract with ElectraNet expired and was not renewed. Supposedly "A change in the proposed design of the capacity mechanism to remove any support for older thermal plants eliminated the possibility of extra revenue." without saying who's change that was. AEMO is "considering the impact", and aparently they've operated less than 1% of the time.

Quotes from https://www.afr.com/companies/energy/en ... 206-p5f2ra published 6 Feb 2024.

We get told renewables will make electricity cheaper for consumers.
Fossil fuel powered plants close down. Electricity prices shoot through the roof.

People in ideological comas blame the closure of the fossil fuel powered plants.
But hang on, weren't large scale renewables the saving grace that would bring down prices, and big bad fossil fuels were the reason our power prices were up? Wasn't it gas power generation that cause higher prices, oh wait hang on before that it was expensive to maintain coal fired power stations.


Damn straight there'll be complaints. Because we're being lied to and rorted.

Some in here suffer from Stockholm syndrome, and the government and corporations are the abusers.

Lolol.

When the Port Augusta power stations closed. A huge chunk of supply was removed from the market. What does economics 101 say about supply and demand? It says prices go up.

When you then add supply to a market, eg via renewables, then the pressure on prices is the other way.

So, not only does the assertion that renewables are the cause of increased prices fly in the face of all economic theory, it's not something that happens anywhere else with a free market. Further, it flies in the face of all common sense.

It's. A. Nonsense.

Further. Let's just think. Think. Imagine if homeowners with solar and renewable generators got sick of disinformation like this, and decided, as a demonstration, to switch off for a day, and take all their need from the grid. Apart from the blackouts, the price would skyrocket. Then you'd certainly have a case of wallet pain.

Call people all the names you like rev, but the fact is that your position flies in the face of every single free market theory out there, and of every economist, both left and right wing, and every day experience of ordinary people.

Instead of resorting to name calling, how about you justify your extraordinary assertion? Without logical fallacy.

Let me start by saying, I don't know why you keep replying to my posts, I have you on ignore. I thought a few days of no response would have made that clear, if the comment where I specifically said I'd block you didn't. But hey, here you are seeking attention.

As for insults, you mean like you insinuating others were too stupid to do your 'basic 3rd grade math' ? Yeh, you probably thought we're too stupid to notice that poorly veiled insult.

And hey, thanks for admitting you're relying on pure THEORIES.

The things I'm basically complaining about, the continual rise in electricity prices for consumers, are based on FACTS. Not some crack pot theories from someone with an agenda to push. You do you though, whatever floats your boat.

Extraordinary assertion. LMFAO. Yeh, because I've completely just made up the fact that power prices are going up right. It's definitely not happening. You're a clown.

Then again, you're that delusional that you think that everyone in society can afford to drop $20,000+ on a home solar & battery setup.

You're a toffee nosed clown. Enjoy talking to your self.