News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure

[abc]

Also FMD what a time to be alive when rednecks are bird watchers

Why are you even on this forum? I live here and you don't.

You left Australia to live in the EU which is run by a bunch of lunatics like Guy Verhofstadt and Ursula Von Leyen. Stay in your lane and butt out of our affairs.

[rubberman]

Also FMD what a time to be alive when rednecks are bird watchers

Why are you even on this forum? I live here and you don't.

You left Australia to live in the EU which is run by a bunch of lunatics like Guy Verhofstadt and Ursula Von Leyen. Stay in your lane and butt out of our affairs.

Nobody made you the judge of who can comment.

Talk to the mods if you think there's an issue.

[abc]

Also FMD what a time to be alive when rednecks are bird watchers

Why are you even on this forum? I live here and you don't.

You left Australia to live in the EU which is run by a bunch of lunatics like Guy Verhofstadt and Ursula Von Leyen. Stay in your lane and butt out of our affairs.

Nobody made you the judge of who can comment.

Talk to the mods if you think there's an issue.

he's calling me a redneck because I live in the place this forum is supposed to be about

[Algernon]

Why are you even on this forum? I live here and you don't.

You left Australia to live in the EU which is run by a bunch of lunatics like Guy Verhofstadt and Ursula Von Leyen. Stay in your lane and butt out of our affairs.

Nobody made you the judge of who can comment.

Talk to the mods if you think there's an issue.

he's calling me a redneck because I live in the place this forum is supposed to be about

Do you or do you not believe the proponents of starting a nuclear power industry in Australia genuinely want to build nuclear power plants? Simple question.

Are you as 1. A proponent of nuclear and 2. Someone who hates foreign things, aware that you're not going to Bunnings and getting an off the shelf nuclear reactor? That the expertise to set it up and run it is in the short to medium term, necessarily foreign imported? Possibly from Europe? Or even.... Choyna

[rubberman]

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-03-22/ ... /103617364

Basically saying that Australian Renewable Energy targets are achievable, and that renewables are the cheapest new build technology.

[abc]

Nobody made you the judge of who can comment.

Talk to the mods if you think there's an issue.

he's calling me a redneck because I live in the place this forum is supposed to be about

Do you or do you not believe the proponents of starting a nuclear power industry in Australia genuinely want to build nuclear power plants? Simple question.

Are you as 1. A proponent of nuclear and 2. Someone who hates foreign things, aware that you're not going to Bunnings and getting an off the shelf nuclear reactor? That the expertise to set it up and run it is in the short to medium term, necessarily foreign imported? Possibly from Europe? Or even.... Choyna

Allergynong, I'm not a proponent of nuclear, however don't see why this country should be against it given it has vast resources of uranium and thorium currently being mined and exported from this state.
Secondly I don't hate foreign things, where do you get this idea from? What I don't like are leftist extremists foisting their ideology from afar onto this nation to its detriment. You sound like one of those hateful teal drip attack dogs one sees on twitter that go around harassing anyone who doesn't submit to their lunacy.

[Nort]

he's calling me a redneck because I live in the place this forum is supposed to be about

Do you or do you not believe the proponents of starting a nuclear power industry in Australia genuinely want to build nuclear power plants? Simple question.

Are you as 1. A proponent of nuclear and 2. Someone who hates foreign things, aware that you're not going to Bunnings and getting an off the shelf nuclear reactor? That the expertise to set it up and run it is in the short to medium term, necessarily foreign imported? Possibly from Europe? Or even.... Choyna

Allergynong, I'm not a proponent of nuclear, however don't see why this country should be against it given it has vast resources of uranium and thorium currently being mined and exported from this state.
Secondly I don't hate foreign things, where do you get this idea from? What I don't like are leftist extremists foisting their ideology from afar onto this nation to its detriment. You sound like one of those hateful teal drip attack dogs one sees on twitter that go around harassing anyone who doesn't submit to their lunacy.

Because the numbers don't stack up.

For the millionth time, prove us wrong by showing us a financial case for Australian commercial nuclear power.

[abc]

Do you or do you not believe the proponents of starting a nuclear power industry in Australia genuinely want to build nuclear power plants? Simple question.

Are you as 1. A proponent of nuclear and 2. Someone who hates foreign things, aware that you're not going to Bunnings and getting an off the shelf nuclear reactor? That the expertise to set it up and run it is in the short to medium term, necessarily foreign imported? Possibly from Europe? Or even.... Choyna

Allergynong, I'm not a proponent of nuclear, however don't see why this country should be against it given it has vast resources of uranium and thorium currently being mined and exported from this state.
Secondly I don't hate foreign things, where do you get this idea from? What I don't like are leftist extremists foisting their ideology from afar onto this nation to its detriment. You sound like one of those hateful teal drip attack dogs one sees on twitter that go around harassing anyone who doesn't submit to their lunacy.

Because the numbers don't stack up.

For the millionth time, prove us wrong by showing us a financial case for Australian commercial nuclear power.

Tell me why its not feasible in Australia but is in France and China?
The economic argument has been manipulated here by vested interests.

Show me the financial case for so called 'renewables' compared to natural gas.

The financial case is make the public pay more via directly and/or via government subsidies.

[rubberman]

Do you or do you not believe the proponents of starting a nuclear power industry in Australia genuinely want to build nuclear power plants? Simple question.

Are you as 1. A proponent of nuclear and 2. Someone who hates foreign things, aware that you're not going to Bunnings and getting an off the shelf nuclear reactor? That the expertise to set it up and run it is in the short to medium term, necessarily foreign imported? Possibly from Europe? Or even.... Choyna

Allergynong, I'm not a proponent of nuclear, however don't see why this country should be against it given it has vast resources of uranium and thorium currently being mined and exported from this state.
Secondly I don't hate foreign things, where do you get this idea from? What I don't like are leftist extremists foisting their ideology from afar onto this nation to its detriment. You sound like one of those hateful teal drip attack dogs one sees on twitter that go around harassing anyone who doesn't submit to their lunacy.

Because the numbers don't stack up.

For the millionth time, prove us wrong by showing us a financial case for Australian commercial nuclear power.

You'll be waiting a long time, because they can't. All you'll get is them telling you to prove the opposite. Given that there's been so many links to reports and studies showing that nuclear energy isn't feasible in Australia without massive subsidy, which they then ignore, it's safe to assume that they cannot support their arguments.

Since they want the law changed, it's up to them to make the argument.

[Spurdo]

I don’t get what’s so bad about literally just legalising it? No one says as soon as it’s legal that we’re mandated to build any, it’s literally just changing a political decision made nearly 30 years ago

[rubberman]

I don’t get what’s so bad about literally just legalising it? No one says as soon as it’s legal that we’re mandated to build any, it’s literally just changing a political decision made nearly 30 years ago

There are plenty of higher priorities. Why spend time and money on something with zero priority?

[Nort]

I don’t get what’s so bad about literally just legalising it? No one says as soon as it’s legal that we’re mandated to build any, it’s literally just changing a political decision made nearly 30 years ago

1. No commercial entity wants to do so, making it a waste of time.

2. There would be a lot of government costs locked in in terms of required regulatory bodies and the like so legalising it isn't just reducing the scope of government, it's potentially expanding it.

For the millionth time, prove us wrong by showing us a financial case for Australian commercial nuclear power.

Tell me why its not feasible in Australia but is in France and China?
The economic argument has been manipulated here by vested interests.

1. Australia doesn't have an existing commercial nuclear industry. As such the costs involved would be higher because they would include the startup costs. Both China and France already have large existing nuclear industries. Interestingly though, France electricity costs per KWH are similar to those in South Australia, suggesting that a large amount of nuclear isn't necessarily the cheap energy solution it is being spruiked as. In terms of moving to renewables wholesale it wouldn't make financial sense for France because right now they could almost certainly keep the plants supplying 75% of their power running for much cheaper than it would cost to decommission them and build new sources of any kind.

2. For China, there are areas where renewables make sense, but their absolutely massive population means that the number of high quality spaces for solar and wind would very much struggle to meet the demand. On the flipside, Australia has an entire continents worth of space to pick the perfect sites from, all to meet the energy demands of a single large cities sized population.

3. Australia is small enough that we would only ever need a relatively small amount of reactors, meaning we can't use the economies of scale to bring down individual unit costs.

4. Australia is rapidly developing grid scale renewables, including those proposed and built by companies that would still be viable with zero government subsidy, that will be offering power for a price that nuclear couldn't commercially compete with, especially in the 15-20 year time frame it would take for commercial reactors to come online. Even now, look how little gas is required to keep the SA grid stable. To give an idea of the costs they would need to repay, the estimated cost for the first 6 new reactors France will be building (and this is the official projected cost by the French government) is 85 to 92 billion Australian dollars.

Show me the financial case for so called 'renewables' compared to natural gas.

The financial case is make the public pay more via directly and/or via government subsidies.

If you don't believe we need to stop increasing the carbon in the atmosphere that's a different discussion we can have but lets keep to one at a time. Which one should we focus on first?

[Spurdo]

I just feel kind of uneasy about running 100% on a form of generation that completely relies on perfect weather to operate efficiently. It also doesn’t help that quite a few people I’ve spoken to about this (not on here) act as if this is intermittency is some kind of advantage and go on about really crazy stuff that makes it seem their aim is more towards complete deindustrialisation and other malthusian “degrowth” ideals

[Nort]

I just feel kind of uneasy about running 100% on a form of generation that completely relies on perfect weather to operate efficiently. It also doesn’t help that quite a few people I’ve spoken to about this (not on here) act as if this is intermittency is some kind of advantage and go on about really crazy stuff that makes it seem their aim is more towards complete deindustrialisation and other malthusian “degrowth” ideals

For sure, if that was the plan, but it isn't. You build so that peak capacity in ideal conditions is above usual requirements, with the overall networks designed such that they can supply power in the worst case weather scenarios.

[abc]

I just feel kind of uneasy about running 100% on a form of generation that completely relies on perfect weather to operate efficiently. It also doesn’t help that quite a few people I’ve spoken to about this (not on here) act as if this is intermittency is some kind of advantage and go on about really crazy stuff that makes it seem their aim is more towards complete deindustrialisation and other malthusian “degrowth” ideals

For sure, if that was the plan, but it isn't. You build so that peak capacity in ideal conditions is above usual requirements, with the overall networks designed such that they can supply power in the worst case weather scenarios.

this highlights how absurd your position is... no matter how much capacity you build you cant make the wind blow