News & Discussion: Adelaide Airport & Airlines

[dbl96]

Can guarantee this won’t happen before we get China southern and Cathay back. It’s frustrating because those two are going to take a while to come back, and United are interested NOW, not in 5 years time, now. Bloody hell wish we didn’t have to wait on the Chinese all the time.

Hardly a surprise. We had a government that gave China the finger, then sucked up to the US. It's hardly unreasonable for the Chinese to say: Ok, get US tourists then.

In no way should we get bogged down in the politics of China vs the US. However, having made a decision to take sides, why expect China to carry on as if nothing happened? Plenty of other countries in the world for their citizens to travel to. We made a decision, there are consequences.

In practical terms, we now need to treat Chinese inbound tourism as a possibility that's just as likely as US tourists, or even less likely.

no no, I wasn't mentioning politics. Adelaide Airport's director just specifically said he wants China Southern and Cathay back before any new routes. So we have to wait for the Chinese to come back before we let in United Airlines. I'm frustrated because United look eager to get into the Adelaide market, yet the airport wants to (for some stupid reason) hold off until the Chinese airlines return.

I highly doubt Adelaide Airport would turn down an offer of flights from United, or any other airline, just because they are waiting on China Southern and Cathay to restart flights. If an offer was on the table, why on earth would they choose to not let United in? It makes no sense. In any event, your theory is not borne out in reality - in the time China Southern and Cathay have been gone, Batik and Vietjet have both started flights. United could do the same if they wanted to.

I think you are misinterpreting what Adelaide Airport means. It's not that they won't let new airlines start operating out of Adelaide until all of the pre-covid airlines are back. It is just that the focus of their negotiations with airlines is to get all the pre-covid services back. This strategy is probably not without reason - these are the low-hanging fruit, airlines with past experience successfully operating out of Adelaide.

Anyway, I'm not sure why you resent Adelaide Airport prioritising negotiations to get China Southern and Cathay back. As highlighted in my earlier post, China is a massive untapped source of demand for Adelaide Airport, notwithstanding geopolitical tensions. Put simply, there are a lot of Chinese here, many have the means to travel, and they like to travel back to China fairly regularly, and receive visits from their relatives who still live there. Geopolitical tensions aren't changing any of this. Based on the figures quoted previously, there is probably sufficient demand to sustain not only China's Southern's flights to Guangzhou, but also direct service to at least one more city on the Chinese mainland, probably Shanghai.

[rev]

Hardly a surprise. We had a government that gave China the finger, then sucked up to the US. It's hardly unreasonable for the Chinese to say: Ok, get US tourists then.

In no way should we get bogged down in the politics of China vs the US. However, having made a decision to take sides, why expect China to carry on as if nothing happened? Plenty of other countries in the world for their citizens to travel to. We made a decision, there are consequences.

In practical terms, we now need to treat Chinese inbound tourism as a possibility that's just as likely as US tourists, or even less likely.

no no, I wasn't mentioning politics. Adelaide Airport's director just specifically said he wants China Southern and Cathay back before any new routes. So we have to wait for the Chinese to come back before we let in United Airlines. I'm frustrated because United look eager to get into the Adelaide market, yet the airport wants to (for some stupid reason) hold off until the Chinese airlines return.

I highly doubt Adelaide Airport would turn down an offer of flights from United, or any other airline, just because they are waiting on China Southern and Cathay to restart flights. If an offer was on the table, why on earth would they choose to not let United in? It makes no sense. In any event, your theory is not borne out in reality - in the time China Southern and Cathay have been gone, Batik and Vietjet have both started flights. United could do the same if they wanted to.

I think you are misinterpreting what Adelaide Airport means. It's not that they won't let new airlines start operating out of Adelaide until all of the pre-covid airlines are back. It is just that the focus of their negotiations with airlines is to get all the pre-covid services back. This strategy is probably not without reason - these are the low-hanging fruit, airlines with past experience successfully operating out of Adelaide.

Anyway, I'm not sure why you resent Adelaide Airport prioritising negotiations to get China Southern and Cathay back. As highlighted in my earlier post, China is a massive untapped source of demand for Adelaide Airport, notwithstanding geopolitical tensions. Put simply, there are a lot of Chinese here, many have the means to travel, and they like to travel back to China fairly regularly, and receive visits from their relatives who still live there. Geopolitical tensions aren't changing any of this. Based on the figures quoted previously, there is probably sufficient demand to sustain not only China's Southern's flights to Guangzhou, but also direct service to at least one more city on the Chinese mainland, probably Shanghai.

They'd be focusing on those pre-covid airlines, because those markets were to an extent already 'developed'. They would have been successful to some extent, therefore bringing those routes/flights back should see a rather quick uptick in passenger numbers. Which is the primary business of the airport, moving people (and freight) via airlines. The more people coming in, the more profitable, the more expansion, etc.

Might be a capacity issue for the actual aeroplanes in relation to scheduling that's available?
Is United able to fly into Adelaide from an Australian federal government (or whatever department/agency within government) at the moment? ie the whole Qatar debacle.

[JCK98]

Might be a capacity issue for the actual aeroplanes in relation to scheduling that's available?
Is United able to fly into Adelaide from an Australian federal government (or whatever department/agency within government) at the moment? ie the whole Qatar debacle.

Not sure with United, but aircraft (and pilot) availablity is a problem across the board at the moment.

We do have an open skies agreement with the US, so unlimited flights can be flown both ways. When limited it tends to only apply to Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane & Perth, not really much point in protecting Qantas's basically non-existent international operations out of Adelaide I guess.

[rubberman]

Hardly a surprise. We had a government that gave China the finger, then sucked up to the US. It's hardly unreasonable for the Chinese to say: Ok, get US tourists then.

In no way should we get bogged down in the politics of China vs the US. However, having made a decision to take sides, why expect China to carry on as if nothing happened? Plenty of other countries in the world for their citizens to travel to. We made a decision, there are consequences.

In practical terms, we now need to treat Chinese inbound tourism as a possibility that's just as likely as US tourists, or even less likely.

no no, I wasn't mentioning politics. Adelaide Airport's director just specifically said he wants China Southern and Cathay back before any new routes. So we have to wait for the Chinese to come back before we let in United Airlines. I'm frustrated because United look eager to get into the Adelaide market, yet the airport wants to (for some stupid reason) hold off until the Chinese airlines return.

I highly doubt Adelaide Airport would turn down an offer of flights from United, or any other airline, just because they are waiting on China Southern and Cathay to restart flights. If an offer was on the table, why on earth would they choose to not let United in? It makes no sense. In any event, your theory is not borne out in reality - in the time China Southern and Cathay have been gone, Batik and Vietjet have both started flights. United could do the same if they wanted to.

I think you are misinterpreting what Adelaide Airport means. It's not that they won't let new airlines start operating out of Adelaide until all of the pre-covid airlines are back. It is just that the focus of their negotiations with airlines is to get all the pre-covid services back. This strategy is probably not without reason - these are the low-hanging fruit, airlines with past experience successfully operating out of Adelaide.

Anyway, I'm not sure why you resent Adelaide Airport prioritising negotiations to get China Southern and Cathay back. As highlighted in my earlier post, China is a massive untapped source of demand for Adelaide Airport, notwithstanding geopolitical tensions. Put simply, there are a lot of Chinese here, many have the means to travel, and they like to travel back to China fairly regularly, and receive visits from their relatives who still live there. Geopolitical tensions aren't changing any of this. Based on the figures quoted previously, there is probably sufficient demand to sustain not only China's Southern's flights to Guangzhou, but also direct service to at least one more city on the Chinese mainland, probably Shanghai.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... dApp_Other

In the linked article, it's noted that Chinese tourism to Australia is one sixth of the 2019 level. One sixth.

However, Chinese tourism to countries like Singapore is UP by 30%. Singapore is not cheap.

The article is also full of hopium and denial about the politics.

I guess the real point is to ask ourselves why Chinese tourists are avoiding Australia and flocking to other destinations, rather than just hoping and waiting. I am not invested in the story of the previous Government going out of its way to offend China, and this is the consequence. However, there doesn't seem to be any other theory out there that makes sense, given the increase in Chinese tourism elsewhere. If it's not geopolitical, then we aren't going to get more tourism unless we know what the reason is. Just hoping is a waste of time.

[abc]

no no, I wasn't mentioning politics. Adelaide Airport's director just specifically said he wants China Southern and Cathay back before any new routes. So we have to wait for the Chinese to come back before we let in United Airlines. I'm frustrated because United look eager to get into the Adelaide market, yet the airport wants to (for some stupid reason) hold off until the Chinese airlines return.

I highly doubt Adelaide Airport would turn down an offer of flights from United, or any other airline, just because they are waiting on China Southern and Cathay to restart flights. If an offer was on the table, why on earth would they choose to not let United in? It makes no sense. In any event, your theory is not borne out in reality - in the time China Southern and Cathay have been gone, Batik and Vietjet have both started flights. United could do the same if they wanted to.

I think you are misinterpreting what Adelaide Airport means. It's not that they won't let new airlines start operating out of Adelaide until all of the pre-covid airlines are back. It is just that the focus of their negotiations with airlines is to get all the pre-covid services back. This strategy is probably not without reason - these are the low-hanging fruit, airlines with past experience successfully operating out of Adelaide.

Anyway, I'm not sure why you resent Adelaide Airport prioritising negotiations to get China Southern and Cathay back. As highlighted in my earlier post, China is a massive untapped source of demand for Adelaide Airport, notwithstanding geopolitical tensions. Put simply, there are a lot of Chinese here, many have the means to travel, and they like to travel back to China fairly regularly, and receive visits from their relatives who still live there. Geopolitical tensions aren't changing any of this. Based on the figures quoted previously, there is probably sufficient demand to sustain not only China's Southern's flights to Guangzhou, but also direct service to at least one more city on the Chinese mainland, probably Shanghai.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... dApp_Other

In the linked article, it's noted that Chinese tourism to Australia is one sixth of the 2019 level. One sixth.

However, Chinese tourism to countries like Singapore is UP by 30%. Singapore is not cheap.

The article is also full of hopium and denial about the politics.

I guess the real point is to ask ourselves why Chinese tourists are avoiding Australia and flocking to other destinations, rather than just hoping and waiting. I am not invested in the story of the previous Government going out of its way to offend China, and this is the consequence. However, there doesn't seem to be any other theory out there that makes sense, given the increase in Chinese tourism elsewhere. If it's not geopolitical, then we aren't going to get more tourism unless we know what the reason is. Just hoping is a waste of time.

because of Sinophobia stoked by our overlords in Washington DC and promoted locally by our hysterical media

a virtual wall is being constructed between the old collective western empire and the emerging BRICS nations

[VinyTapestry849]

Hardly a surprise. We had a government that gave China the finger, then sucked up to the US. It's hardly unreasonable for the Chinese to say: Ok, get US tourists then.

In no way should we get bogged down in the politics of China vs the US. However, having made a decision to take sides, why expect China to carry on as if nothing happened? Plenty of other countries in the world for their citizens to travel to. We made a decision, there are consequences.

In practical terms, we now need to treat Chinese inbound tourism as a possibility that's just as likely as US tourists, or even less likely.

no no, I wasn't mentioning politics. Adelaide Airport's director just specifically said he wants China Southern and Cathay back before any new routes. So we have to wait for the Chinese to come back before we let in United Airlines. I'm frustrated because United look eager to get into the Adelaide market, yet the airport wants to (for some stupid reason) hold off until the Chinese airlines return.

I highly doubt Adelaide Airport would turn down an offer of flights from United, or any other airline, just because they are waiting on China Southern and Cathay to restart flights. If an offer was on the table, why on earth would they choose to not let United in? It makes no sense. In any event, your theory is not borne out in reality - in the time China Southern and Cathay have been gone, Batik and Vietjet have both started flights. United could do the same if they wanted to.

I think you are misinterpreting what Adelaide Airport means. It's not that they won't let new airlines start operating out of Adelaide until all of the pre-covid airlines are back. It is just that the focus of their negotiations with airlines is to get all the pre-covid services back. This strategy is probably not without reason - these are the low-hanging fruit, airlines with past experience successfully operating out of Adelaide.

Anyway, I'm not sure why you resent Adelaide Airport prioritising negotiations to get China Southern and Cathay back. As highlighted in my earlier post, China is a massive untapped source of demand for Adelaide Airport, notwithstanding geopolitical tensions. Put simply, there are a lot of Chinese here, many have the means to travel, and they like to travel back to China fairly regularly, and receive visits from their relatives who still live there. Geopolitical tensions aren't changing any of this. Based on the figures quoted previously, there is probably sufficient demand to sustain not only China's Southern's flights to Guangzhou, but also direct service to at least one more city on the Chinese mainland, probably Shanghai.

The reason Adelaide Airport also won’t let them in just yet is also because we don’t have the space for them. We currently have 3 Code E (B777, A350, Dreamliner) aircraft parking positions. They are all booked and taken in the morning when United would most likely arrive. I think either United will have to change their schedule to fit us (unlikely), or we will just have to wait till 2030 when our airport expansion is completed to accommodate them.

[rev]

Can the mods actually deal with this stupid off topic political crap that is 1000% not needed in this thread, before the two usual culprits spiral out of control?

[rev]

no no, I wasn't mentioning politics. Adelaide Airport's director just specifically said he wants China Southern and Cathay back before any new routes. So we have to wait for the Chinese to come back before we let in United Airlines. I'm frustrated because United look eager to get into the Adelaide market, yet the airport wants to (for some stupid reason) hold off until the Chinese airlines return.

I highly doubt Adelaide Airport would turn down an offer of flights from United, or any other airline, just because they are waiting on China Southern and Cathay to restart flights. If an offer was on the table, why on earth would they choose to not let United in? It makes no sense. In any event, your theory is not borne out in reality - in the time China Southern and Cathay have been gone, Batik and Vietjet have both started flights. United could do the same if they wanted to.

I think you are misinterpreting what Adelaide Airport means. It's not that they won't let new airlines start operating out of Adelaide until all of the pre-covid airlines are back. It is just that the focus of their negotiations with airlines is to get all the pre-covid services back. This strategy is probably not without reason - these are the low-hanging fruit, airlines with past experience successfully operating out of Adelaide.

Anyway, I'm not sure why you resent Adelaide Airport prioritising negotiations to get China Southern and Cathay back. As highlighted in my earlier post, China is a massive untapped source of demand for Adelaide Airport, notwithstanding geopolitical tensions. Put simply, there are a lot of Chinese here, many have the means to travel, and they like to travel back to China fairly regularly, and receive visits from their relatives who still live there. Geopolitical tensions aren't changing any of this. Based on the figures quoted previously, there is probably sufficient demand to sustain not only China's Southern's flights to Guangzhou, but also direct service to at least one more city on the Chinese mainland, probably Shanghai.

The reason Adelaide Airport also won’t let them in just yet is also because we don’t have the space for them. We currently have 3 Code E (B777, A350, Dreamliner) aircraft parking positions. They are all booked and taken in the morning when United would most likely arrive. I think either United will have to change their schedule to fit us (unlikely), or we will just have to wait till 2030 when our airport expansion is completed to accommodate them.

That's probably the main reason I'd say, capacity at the airport and scheduling.
What would be the departure/arrival times for I assume LA-Adelaide and return leg?if anyone can guesstimate..

[VinyTapestry849]

I highly doubt Adelaide Airport would turn down an offer of flights from United, or any other airline, just because they are waiting on China Southern and Cathay to restart flights. If an offer was on the table, why on earth would they choose to not let United in? It makes no sense. In any event, your theory is not borne out in reality - in the time China Southern and Cathay have been gone, Batik and Vietjet have both started flights. United could do the same if they wanted to.

I think you are misinterpreting what Adelaide Airport means. It's not that they won't let new airlines start operating out of Adelaide until all of the pre-covid airlines are back. It is just that the focus of their negotiations with airlines is to get all the pre-covid services back. This strategy is probably not without reason - these are the low-hanging fruit, airlines with past experience successfully operating out of Adelaide.

Anyway, I'm not sure why you resent Adelaide Airport prioritising negotiations to get China Southern and Cathay back. As highlighted in my earlier post, China is a massive untapped source of demand for Adelaide Airport, notwithstanding geopolitical tensions. Put simply, there are a lot of Chinese here, many have the means to travel, and they like to travel back to China fairly regularly, and receive visits from their relatives who still live there. Geopolitical tensions aren't changing any of this. Based on the figures quoted previously, there is probably sufficient demand to sustain not only China's Southern's flights to Guangzhou, but also direct service to at least one more city on the Chinese mainland, probably Shanghai.

The reason Adelaide Airport also won’t let them in just yet is also because we don’t have the space for them. We currently have 3 Code E (B777, A350, Dreamliner) aircraft parking positions. They are all booked and taken in the morning when United would most likely arrive. I think either United will have to change their schedule to fit us (unlikely), or we will just have to wait till 2030 when our airport expansion is completed to accommodate them.

That's probably the main reason I'd say, capacity at the airport and scheduling.
What would be the departure/arrival times for I assume LA-Adelaide and return leg?if anyone can guesstimate..

Eventually we'll get the space. The expansion is in the works and we should see construction start extending the terminal in the not too distant future. These are the stages of which we will see the terminal expand. You can find out more in the Airports masterplan.

And no, we'll probably see a san Francisco route before a Los Angeles one. There seems to be more demand for san Francisco then Los Angeles in the Australian market. United Airlines usually arrive between 9am - 12pm for the eastern coast cities.

[dbl96]

I highly doubt Adelaide Airport would turn down an offer of flights from United, or any other airline, just because they are waiting on China Southern and Cathay to restart flights. If an offer was on the table, why on earth would they choose to not let United in? It makes no sense. In any event, your theory is not borne out in reality - in the time China Southern and Cathay have been gone, Batik and Vietjet have both started flights. United could do the same if they wanted to.

I think you are misinterpreting what Adelaide Airport means. It's not that they won't let new airlines start operating out of Adelaide until all of the pre-covid airlines are back. It is just that the focus of their negotiations with airlines is to get all the pre-covid services back. This strategy is probably not without reason - these are the low-hanging fruit, airlines with past experience successfully operating out of Adelaide.

Anyway, I'm not sure why you resent Adelaide Airport prioritising negotiations to get China Southern and Cathay back. As highlighted in my earlier post, China is a massive untapped source of demand for Adelaide Airport, notwithstanding geopolitical tensions. Put simply, there are a lot of Chinese here, many have the means to travel, and they like to travel back to China fairly regularly, and receive visits from their relatives who still live there. Geopolitical tensions aren't changing any of this. Based on the figures quoted previously, there is probably sufficient demand to sustain not only China's Southern's flights to Guangzhou, but also direct service to at least one more city on the Chinese mainland, probably Shanghai.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... dApp_Other

In the linked article, it's noted that Chinese tourism to Australia is one sixth of the 2019 level. One sixth.

However, Chinese tourism to countries like Singapore is UP by 30%. Singapore is not cheap.

The article is also full of hopium and denial about the politics.

I guess the real point is to ask ourselves why Chinese tourists are avoiding Australia and flocking to other destinations, rather than just hoping and waiting. I am not invested in the story of the previous Government going out of its way to offend China, and this is the consequence. However, there doesn't seem to be any other theory out there that makes sense, given the increase in Chinese tourism elsewhere. If it's not geopolitical, then we aren't going to get more tourism unless we know what the reason is. Just hoping is a waste of time.

because of Sinophobia stoked by our overlords in Washington DC and promoted locally by our hysterical media

a virtual wall is being constructed between the old collective western empire and the emerging BRICS nations

I’m not trying to play down the geopolitical tensions and the mutual fear and suspicion it has created, but part of the reason Chinese tourists aren’t coming back in pre-COVID numbers is probably because they have more options now.

You mention Singapore - but since the start of the year Singapore has allowed visa free entry for Chinese passport holders. Malaysia and Thailand have done the same. Plenty of other tourist destinations now offer more or less guaranteed visas on arrival for Chinese nationals, whereas to come to Australia they have to go through a tedious, expensive and uncertain process of applying for a visa in advance. Unlike in many other destinations, in Australia the process hasn’t changed since China was a much poorer country and its citizens were a much greater overstay risk.

Also, while Chinese visitor numbers might have increased to places with favourable policies like Singapore, numbers are generally down accross the board. China hasn’t been open since COVID for nearly as long as the rest of the world. I think it’s still too early to tell where the trend is going to land.

Anyway, my point was more that there is still a lot of non-tourism related demand because of Chinese nationals living in Adelaide. At the moment Adelaide Airport is losing out because it’s all being routed through airports like Sydney, Melbourne and Singapore.

[Saltwater]

When do we go back to talking about the airport?

[SouthAussie94]

When do we go back to talking about the airport?

When people stop feeding the troll. Easier to put them on ignore and let them starve...

Back onto the airport, they're currently building a new ground level carpark opposite Bunnings and Ikea. It's a reasonably large area.

Apparently this will replace some of the carparks near the old Domestic terminal and will free up this space for the next stage of the Terminal expansion.

The new carpark will probably be finished August/September-ish.

[rev]

When do we go back to talking about the airport?

When people stop feeding the troll. Easier to put them on ignore and let them starve...

Back onto the airport, they're currently building a new ground level carpark opposite Bunnings and Ikea. It's a reasonably large area.

Apparently this will replace some of the carparks near the old Domestic terminal and will free up this space for the next stage of the Terminal expansion.

The new carpark will probably be finished August/September-ish.

I may have missed it with the graphics posted of the expansion plans, but is there a timeline for what that terminal work will begin?
If the car park adjustments are going to be completed by the spring time, we could assume early 2025 terminal work to begin?

[VinyTapestry849]

When do we go back to talking about the airport?

When people stop feeding the troll. Easier to put them on ignore and let them starve...

Back onto the airport, they're currently building a new ground level carpark opposite Bunnings and Ikea. It's a reasonably large area.

Apparently this will replace some of the carparks near the old Domestic terminal and will free up this space for the next stage of the Terminal expansion.

The new carpark will probably be finished August/September-ish.

If it is a ground level carpark, then the Airport is deviating from the 2050 masterplan on an extraordinary level.

That area was originally designated to be the well hyped-up new office area, quote "The new airport business district is designed to be south australia's next generation hub for business, industry, and technology." etcetera, etcetera (company promotional waffle).

It was the flagship of the future airport vision, this new business hub. Concerning that its now in danger of not going ahead.

[SouthAussie94]

A ground level carpark. Relatively cheap to build, relatively easy to build on top of. These things don't need to exist forever.

The nature of large precincts such as the airport means that you can't build everything in its final form all at once. It goes like this:

Demolish some old sheds and buildings. Move the carpark from outside of the new terminal footprint to new ground level carpark. Expand the terminal. Airport usage increases with more flights and passengers. Demand for parking increases and reaches critical point. Build second multi-story carpark. Ground level carpark closed and new business precinct built in its place.

This might take 15 years to follow through but it means that there is always progress and development underway