News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure

[1NEEDS2POST]

So live exposed pins?
Only countries with extremely poor electrical standards would allow that.

I knew someone would say that. It shouldn't be a problem with half insulated pins because the inverter can shut off before someone pulls it halfway out of the socket.

[rubberman]

Again, seriously, Australia desperately needs an Opposition Party which has realistic and practical plans. Putting things up that cannot possibly work in the time frame we need is a huge distraction from a very real and serious challenge. Less marketing, Peter, and more engineering, if you please.

It's a policy designed for one purpose: burn coal so the boomers can squeeze the planet for the last bit of profit they can in their last 15 years. After that, it's my generation's problem of how to find an efficient way of undoing the fucking mess they left us.

On that note. It'll be interesting in 15 years time what things like federal Liberal and News LTD actually look like with that audience moved on.

Boomers haven't been a voting majority for over twenty years. So, I see no change whatsoever. Caravan and Littleproud are Gen X and are outbooming Boomers, for example.

[abc]

Again, seriously, Australia desperately needs an Opposition Party which has realistic and practical plans. Putting things up that cannot possibly work in the time frame we need is a huge distraction from a very real and serious challenge. Less marketing, Peter, and more engineering, if you please.

It's a policy designed for one purpose: burn coal so the boomers can squeeze the planet for the last bit of profit they can in their last 15 years. After that, it's my generation's problem of how to find an efficient way of undoing the fucking mess they left us.

On that note. It'll be interesting in 15 years time what things like federal Liberal and News LTD actually look like with that audience moved on.

^
Seriously this is just shit posting at this point

[claybro]

The same "experts" that provided the cost and timeframes for renewable rollout, which are already way behind schedule on cost and time, are telling us that nuclear will take way too long and be too expensive. Go figure. Firming by battery on which the whole renewable costing relies let alone long term storage is still not up to the task at times of low/no wind, and timescales for the closure of "ancient" coal stations are being extended.-Seems "ancient" technology still works after all these years. Snowy 2.0 looks like never being completed, and is WAAAY over budget with no end in sight. Pumped hydro has proven a pipe dream, as has hot rocks, and Twiggys green hydrogen has so far been proven a subsidy scam. So we already know the government adviser "experts" are wrong by real world example. Chris Bowen is a condescending twat, who really needs to up his game rather than just relying on smartarse soundbites. People had no idea of the amount of environmental destruction for the widespread rollout of renewables- and are starting to wake up to the half truths told so far. The lowest cost is renewable mantra is just not being bought by a population whos power bills keep rising, and with industry packing up due to scarcity of power. Will nuclear be any better?- I guess at least we are now having the discussion- but seems the rest of the world has not put all its eggs in the renewables basket- and not should we.

[rev]

The same "experts" that provided the cost and timeframes for renewable rollout, which are already way behind schedule on cost and time, are telling us that nuclear will take way too long and be too expensive. Go figure. Firming by battery on which the whole renewable costing relies let alone long term storage is still not up to the task at times of low/no wind, and timescales for the closure of "ancient" coal stations are being extended.-Seems "ancient" technology still works after all these years. Snowy 2.0 looks like never being completed, and is WAAAY over budget with no end in sight. Pumped hydro has proven a pipe dream, as has hot rocks, and Twiggys green hydrogen has so far been proven a subsidy scam. So we already know the government adviser "experts" are wrong by real world example. Chris Bowen is a condescending twat, who really needs to up his game rather than just relying on smartarse soundbites. People had no idea of the amount of environmental destruction for the widespread rollout of renewables- and are starting to wake up to the half truths told so far. The lowest cost is renewable mantra is just not being bought by a population whos power bills keep rising, and with industry packing up due to scarcity of power. Will nuclear be any better?- I guess at least we are now having the discussion- but seems the rest of the world has not put all its eggs in the renewables basket- and not should we.

Mate the whole thing is fucking ridiculous.

On the left we have lunatics telling us we need to stop digging up X type of resources because it's bad for the environment/climate all the while they are telling us that their solution, which relies on doing the exact same thing just with some different resources, is the better option.

On the right we have lunatics telling us that renewables will be the death of our bank accounts, but their solution is going to save us. It might, or might not, bring down costs, but it's going to still cost us a shit load of our taxes to implement their plan.

What none of these fucking clown politicians are doing though, is taking a step back from all the ideological bullshit that they are drowning in, and looking at what the situation is at present, and how we can get to a scenario where we are better off not only in regards to the environment, but economically as a nation, households and businesses included. What is in the best interests of this nation, without the political ideological horse shit that this debate is covered in.
Sorry to break it to the ideologues, this renewable shit we've had foisted upon is not the best solution and outcome. Sky high electricity prices are proof of that.
And obviously continuing to just burn fossil fuels wasn't a solution. But we will never know if rebuilding or replacing those old plants was going to be a good solution, because that never eventuated. Instead we blew most of them up and the few remaining will end up as a pile of rubble in the near future.

Anyone who believes that we are getting the best outcome, either from the lunatic left or the lunatic right, is part of the problem imho. Because the longer the ideological arguments continue, and they continue because too many people have their blinkers on, the longer this shit will go on and we will continue having to foot the bill, and the bill aint going to be getting any lighter.

The most insane thing I've heard is people saying that some of the nuclear options aren't reliable because something hasn't been built commercially yet on a large scale.
Neither were some of the renewable technologies that have been rolled out in this country at great expense to households and businesses, but here we are......I guess that's a key point with ideologues, if it suits them its ok, if it goes against their ideology it's bad and any excuse even contradictory will do. Which is why as a nation we need to move away from this ideological stupidity that's clogging up any form of sensible debate which would lead to better outcomes for Australia.

What this country needs is neither a left nor right government, but a centrist government with pragmatic policies that are formed without ideological influence.
But Australians are too scared/stupid to vote for anything but Labor and Liberal, and think voting for dumb shit Greens or some blowin(blowhards more like it) "independents" is going to change anything.
Sorry, that's my rant for the day

[abc]

The same "experts" that provided the cost and timeframes for renewable rollout, which are already way behind schedule on cost and time, are telling us that nuclear will take way too long and be too expensive. Go figure. Firming by battery on which the whole renewable costing relies let alone long term storage is still not up to the task at times of low/no wind, and timescales for the closure of "ancient" coal stations are being extended.-Seems "ancient" technology still works after all these years. Snowy 2.0 looks like never being completed, and is WAAAY over budget with no end in sight. Pumped hydro has proven a pipe dream, as has hot rocks, and Twiggys green hydrogen has so far been proven a subsidy scam. So we already know the government adviser "experts" are wrong by real world example. Chris Bowen is a condescending twat, who really needs to up his game rather than just relying on smartarse soundbites. People had no idea of the amount of environmental destruction for the widespread rollout of renewables- and are starting to wake up to the half truths told so far. The lowest cost is renewable mantra is just not being bought by a population whos power bills keep rising, and with industry packing up due to scarcity of power. Will nuclear be any better?- I guess at least we are now having the discussion- but seems the rest of the world has not put all its eggs in the renewables basket- and not should we.

Mate the whole thing is fucking ridiculous.

On the left we have lunatics telling us we need to stop digging up X type of resources because it's bad for the environment/climate all the while they are telling us that their solution, which relies on doing the exact same thing just with some different resources, is the better option.

On the right we have lunatics telling us that renewables will be the death of our bank accounts, but their solution is going to save us. It might, or might not, bring down costs, but it's going to still cost us a shit load of our taxes to implement their plan.

What none of these fucking clown politicians are doing though, is taking a step back from all the ideological bullshit that they are drowning in, and looking at what the situation is at present, and how we can get to a scenario where we are better off not only in regards to the environment, but economically as a nation, households and businesses included. What is in the best interests of this nation, without the political ideological horse shit that this debate is covered in.
Sorry to break it to the ideologues, this renewable shit we've had foisted upon is not the best solution and outcome. Sky high electricity prices are proof of that.
And obviously continuing to just burn fossil fuels wasn't a solution. But we will never know if rebuilding or replacing those old plants was going to be a good solution, because that never eventuated. Instead we blew most of them up and the few remaining will end up as a pile of rubble in the near future.

Anyone who believes that we are getting the best outcome, either from the lunatic left or the lunatic right, is part of the problem imho. Because the longer the ideological arguments continue, and they continue because too many people have their blinkers on, the longer this shit will go on and we will continue having to foot the bill, and the bill aint going to be getting any lighter.

The most insane thing I've heard is people saying that some of the nuclear options aren't reliable because something hasn't been built commercially yet on a large scale.
Neither were some of the renewable technologies that have been rolled out in this country at great expense to households and businesses, but here we are......I guess that's a key point with ideologues, if it suits them its ok, if it goes against their ideology it's bad and any excuse even contradictory will do. Which is why as a nation we need to move away from this ideological stupidity that's clogging up any form of sensible debate which would lead to better outcomes for Australia.

What this country needs is neither a left nor right government, but a centrist government with pragmatic policies that are formed without ideological influence.
But Australians are too scared/stupid to vote for anything but Labor and Liberal, and think voting for dumb shit Greens or some blowin(blowhards more like it) "independents" is going to change anything.
Sorry, that's my rant for the day

ALP and Liberals are both centrist but their policies like nearly all of the collective west are determined by oligarchs. The political ideologies argued online are just for the great unwashed to waste their energy on and generate clickbait for ad revenue.

[rubberman]

The same "experts" that provided the cost and timeframes for renewable rollout, which are already way behind schedule on cost and time, are telling us that nuclear will take way too long and be too expensive. Go figure. Firming by battery on which the whole renewable costing relies let alone long term storage is still not up to the task at times of low/no wind, and timescales for the closure of "ancient" coal stations are being extended.-Seems "ancient" technology still works after all these years. Snowy 2.0 looks like never being completed, and is WAAAY over budget with no end in sight. Pumped hydro has proven a pipe dream, as has hot rocks, and Twiggys green hydrogen has so far been proven a subsidy scam. So we already know the government adviser "experts" are wrong by real world example. Chris Bowen is a condescending twat, who really needs to up his game rather than just relying on smartarse soundbites. People had no idea of the amount of environmental destruction for the widespread rollout of renewables- and are starting to wake up to the half truths told so far. The lowest cost is renewable mantra is just not being bought by a population whos power bills keep rising, and with industry packing up due to scarcity of power. Will nuclear be any better?- I guess at least we are now having the discussion- but seems the rest of the world has not put all its eggs in the renewables basket- and not should we.

Mate the whole thing is fucking ridiculous.

On the left we have lunatics telling us we need to stop digging up X type of resources because it's bad for the environment/climate all the while they are telling us that their solution, which relies on doing the exact same thing just with some different resources, is the better option.

On the right we have lunatics telling us that renewables will be the death of our bank accounts, but their solution is going to save us. It might, or might not, bring down costs, but it's going to still cost us a shit load of our taxes to implement their plan.

What none of these fucking clown politicians are doing though, is taking a step back from all the ideological bullshit that they are drowning in, and looking at what the situation is at present, and how we can get to a scenario where we are better off not only in regards to the environment, but economically as a nation, households and businesses included. What is in the best interests of this nation, without the political ideological horse shit that this debate is covered in.
Sorry to break it to the ideologues, this renewable shit we've had foisted upon is not the best solution and outcome. Sky high electricity prices are proof of that.
And obviously continuing to just burn fossil fuels wasn't a solution. But we will never know if rebuilding or replacing those old plants was going to be a good solution, because that never eventuated. Instead we blew most of them up and the few remaining will end up as a pile of rubble in the near future.

Anyone who believes that we are getting the best outcome, either from the lunatic left or the lunatic right, is part of the problem imho. Because the longer the ideological arguments continue, and they continue because too many people have their blinkers on, the longer this shit will go on and we will continue having to foot the bill, and the bill aint going to be getting any lighter.

The most insane thing I've heard is people saying that some of the nuclear options aren't reliable because something hasn't been built commercially yet on a large scale.
Neither were some of the renewable technologies that have been rolled out in this country at great expense to households and businesses, but here we are......I guess that's a key point with ideologues, if it suits them its ok, if it goes against their ideology it's bad and any excuse even contradictory will do. Which is why as a nation we need to move away from this ideological stupidity that's clogging up any form of sensible debate which would lead to better outcomes for Australia.

What this country needs is neither a left nor right government, but a centrist government with pragmatic policies that are formed without ideological influence.
But Australians are too scared/stupid to vote for anything but Labor and Liberal, and think voting for dumb shit Greens or some blowin(blowhards more like it) "independents" is going to change anything.
Sorry, that's my rant for the day

ALP and Liberals are both centrist but their policies like nearly all of the collective west are determined by oligarchs. The political ideologies argued online are just for the great unwashed to waste their energy on and generate clickbait for ad revenue.

You complained about shitposting...then you post this?

[rubberman]

The same "experts" that provided the cost and timeframes for renewable rollout, which are already way behind schedule on cost and time, are telling us that nuclear will take way too long and be too expensive. Go figure. Firming by battery on which the whole renewable costing relies let alone long term storage is still not up to the task at times of low/no wind, and timescales for the closure of "ancient" coal stations are being extended.-Seems "ancient" technology still works after all these years. Snowy 2.0 looks like never being completed, and is WAAAY over budget with no end in sight. Pumped hydro has proven a pipe dream, as has hot rocks, and Twiggys green hydrogen has so far been proven a subsidy scam. So we already know the government adviser "experts" are wrong by real world example. Chris Bowen is a condescending twat, who really needs to up his game rather than just relying on smartarse soundbites. People had no idea of the amount of environmental destruction for the widespread rollout of renewables- and are starting to wake up to the half truths told so far. The lowest cost is renewable mantra is just not being bought by a population whos power bills keep rising, and with industry packing up due to scarcity of power. Will nuclear be any better?- I guess at least we are now having the discussion- but seems the rest of the world has not put all its eggs in the renewables basket- and not should we.

That's all very well, but that decision should have been made 20 years ago.

If you have a succession of governments that think it should be left to the private sector to work out will have this same result.

First, without a firm government policy, nobody is going to risk the price of a coal/nuclear plant. That's a fifty plus year investment. No government policy = No Investment.

However, you can invest in relatively cheap wind and solar.

So, what do you do? Invest in a 50 year expensive asset with no government policy? NO. YOU. WON'T.

Or, do you invest in cheaper, shorter term wind and solar?

Next, gas. In the absence of government policy, gas producers sell it off overseas. Now we are short in Australia, and the prices go up. What a surprise. I'm shocked. The market, unfettered by government, is using market power to increase prices. Now, I actually think that's fair, since gas plants cost a lot to build, even though their economic lives are shorter.

Of course, apparently to some people, the extra cost of gas isn't the cause of increased power prices. Somehow, the increased cost of gas can be ignored. Somehow the increased maintenance costs of coal plants can be ignored. The costs of minimal government policy can be ignored.

We are where we are today because we have had almost no real energy policy for 20 years. Plus, those policies we did have were mostly reversed.

[bits]

Just noticed Origin and AGL prices for electricity are going down a few percent on the 1st of July instead of up to match inflation or worse.
Not heaps but at least not another up.

[abc]

Mate the whole thing is fucking ridiculous.

On the left we have lunatics telling us we need to stop digging up X type of resources because it's bad for the environment/climate all the while they are telling us that their solution, which relies on doing the exact same thing just with some different resources, is the better option.

On the right we have lunatics telling us that renewables will be the death of our bank accounts, but their solution is going to save us. It might, or might not, bring down costs, but it's going to still cost us a shit load of our taxes to implement their plan.

What none of these fucking clown politicians are doing though, is taking a step back from all the ideological bullshit that they are drowning in, and looking at what the situation is at present, and how we can get to a scenario where we are better off not only in regards to the environment, but economically as a nation, households and businesses included. What is in the best interests of this nation, without the political ideological horse shit that this debate is covered in.
Sorry to break it to the ideologues, this renewable shit we've had foisted upon is not the best solution and outcome. Sky high electricity prices are proof of that.
And obviously continuing to just burn fossil fuels wasn't a solution. But we will never know if rebuilding or replacing those old plants was going to be a good solution, because that never eventuated. Instead we blew most of them up and the few remaining will end up as a pile of rubble in the near future.

Anyone who believes that we are getting the best outcome, either from the lunatic left or the lunatic right, is part of the problem imho. Because the longer the ideological arguments continue, and they continue because too many people have their blinkers on, the longer this shit will go on and we will continue having to foot the bill, and the bill aint going to be getting any lighter.

The most insane thing I've heard is people saying that some of the nuclear options aren't reliable because something hasn't been built commercially yet on a large scale.
Neither were some of the renewable technologies that have been rolled out in this country at great expense to households and businesses, but here we are......I guess that's a key point with ideologues, if it suits them its ok, if it goes against their ideology it's bad and any excuse even contradictory will do. Which is why as a nation we need to move away from this ideological stupidity that's clogging up any form of sensible debate which would lead to better outcomes for Australia.

What this country needs is neither a left nor right government, but a centrist government with pragmatic policies that are formed without ideological influence.
But Australians are too scared/stupid to vote for anything but Labor and Liberal, and think voting for dumb shit Greens or some blowin(blowhards more like it) "independents" is going to change anything.
Sorry, that's my rant for the day

ALP and Liberals are both centrist but their policies like nearly all of the collective west are determined by oligarchs. The political ideologies argued online are just for the great unwashed to waste their energy on and generate clickbait for ad revenue.

You complained about shitposting...then you post this?

show me where I 'm wrong?

[rev]

https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/nsw ... cd125248b7

Award-winning nuclear researcher Dr Adi Paterson, who is the former boss of the Australian Nuclear Science and Technology Organisation, said recent social media posts from the Prime Minister — posted before the coalition’s nuclear policy was unveiled — showing Australia’s iconic locations were “under threat” because of nuclear energy were fuelling a “scare campaign”.

“For the Prime Minister of Australia to put his name behind a scare campaign that is not true is deeply embarrassing for Australia when for our national defence we are going to have nuclear submarines,” he told The Daily Telegraph. “I can’t understand why the PM would put out a scare campaign when he should be telling people it’s not scary.”

Well fucking said. About time people with fucking functional brains started to speak up.

Mr Parker also pushed back against claims about the toxic health impacts, referencing a report from the United Nations Commission for Europe that showed “even renewables have a higher life cycle cancer producing effect than nuclear”.

Interesting. lets see if we can find some of these reports.

“” I will support nuclear power. As a power engineer this is very important to maintain energy security and energy stability in this energy crisis.

“Comparing nuclear to renewable, it is very stable, and its cost is very low. In terms of the running cost, it’s lower than coal and natural gas.

Interesting.

“We saw in Germany they turned off their nuclear power plans and having done that they have tanked their economy and driven up their emissions.”

“It’s a very stable and controllable output. I know there are some concerns about the safety issue, like if a disaster happens, but when we talk about energy supply, the most developed OECD countries, if they need to develop an economy, a stable and independent energy supply is critical. For economic development, a nuclear power plant is necessary in the mix.”

[Algernon]

Re: Germany:

Carbon intensity of electricity production ("driven up their emissions"):

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/carb ... =EU-27~DEU

Economic Growth ("tanked their economy")

https://tradingeconomics.com/germany/gdp

The remaining hand full of nuclear plants were decommissioned in the last few years, with a couple of closures delayed because of the cessation of supply of Russian gas.

If the quoted misinfo is the best the nuclear lobby has then fuck me dead. But we all know this isn't about building nuclear. It's about burning coal.

[abc]

Re: Germany:

Carbon intensity of electricity production ("driven up their emissions"):

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/carb ... =EU-27~DEU

Economic Growth ("tanked their economy")

https://tradingeconomics.com/germany/gdp

The remaining hand full of nuclear plants were decommissioned in the last few years, with a couple of closures delayed because of the cessation of supply of Russian gas.

If the quoted misinfo is the best the nuclear lobby has then fuck me dead. But we all know this isn't about building nuclear. It's about burning coal.

the seppos blew up their pipeline FFS

[Algernon]

Typical distraction. Pluck out the dumbest conspioracy theory you can to get a rise out of people.

Back to the topic at hand.

Your expert is full of shit.

Germany's emissions went up - then came straight back down again and are continuing to do so.

Germany's economy didn't tank. Despite the headwinds or covid and the gas supply crisis, it is growing and at the same time still paying down national debt.

You don't need nuclear " in the mix" in developing economies. If that were the case, Australia today wouldn't be a developed economy.

Your expert tries to argue nuclear is cheaper than renewables by stripping out overheads such as the 25 billion required to build the reactor in the first place.

If you want to tell us windmills cause more cancer than Fukushima, Chernobyl and 3 Mile Island, then that's on you to find it.

[Spurdo]

But we all know this isn't about building nuclear. It's about burning coal.

Strange, I think I missed the bit in science class where they taught us about the fissile properties of coal and its use in the nuclear industry