News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure

[Waewick]

What...I mean WHAT has this got to do with South Australia?

ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

It is interesting i guess.

Most people who understand their electricity bills probably understand why they are high at the moment anyway.

[rubberman]

What...I mean WHAT has this got to do with South Australia?

ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

What it's got to do with is the constant assertion by some here that renewables have caused price increases.

It's mentioned over and over again.

So, looking at other jurisdictions shows that there's very little correlation between renewables penetration and electricity prices.

[abc]

What...I mean WHAT has this got to do with South Australia?

ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

What it's got to do with is the constant assertion by some here that renewables have caused price increases.

It's mentioned over and over again.

So, looking at other jurisdictions shows that there's very little correlation between renewables penetration and electricity prices.

your logic is flawed when you're comparing hydro electricity + woodfire burning to solar power and wind turbines.

[rubberman]

What...I mean WHAT has this got to do with South Australia?

ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

What it's got to do with is the constant assertion by some here that renewables have caused price increases.

It's mentioned over and over again.

So, looking at other jurisdictions shows that there's very little correlation between renewables penetration and electricity prices.

your logic is flawed when you're comparing hydro electricity + woodfire burning to solar power and wind turbines.

My point, which you missed, is that there doesn't seem to be a correlation between renewables percentage and price.

Further, talking about logic, flawed or not, surely those who have stated that they think renewables are more expensive than fossil fuels need to provide some logic to back up their assertions. Should they wish to be believed.

I believe in free speech, so, if someone wants to handwave and assert that renewables caused price rises, good for them. However, I haven't seen much in the way of logical arguments to support their opinions.

I am more than happy for people to come up with examples where renewables percentage correlates with price, allowing for factors such as gas prices, coal plant maintenance and other like factors.

[abc]

What it's got to do with is the constant assertion by some here that renewables have caused price increases.

It's mentioned over and over again.

So, looking at other jurisdictions shows that there's very little correlation between renewables penetration and electricity prices.

your logic is flawed when you're comparing hydro electricity + woodfire burning to solar power and wind turbines.

My point, which you missed, is that there doesn't seem to be a correlation between renewables percentage and price.

Further, talking about logic, flawed or not, surely those who have stated that they think renewables are more expensive than fossil fuels need to provide some logic to back up their assertions. Should they wish to be believed.

I believe in free speech, so, if someone wants to handwave and assert that renewables caused price rises, good for them. However, I haven't seen much in the way of logical arguments to support their opinions.

I am more than happy for people to come up with examples where renewables percentage correlates with price, allowing for factors such as gas prices, coal plant maintenance and other like factors.

there is a correlation when you are pricing certain renewables vs others

eg hydro and woodfire is a lot cheaper than solar + wind turbines... but we don't have mountain streams in SA to source hydro from

[Jaymz]

I'm not here to join any side of the argument, just post some facts.

My latest electricity bill for the June '24 has just arrived. My usage compared to June quarter '23 was down 2.5%, actual bill 11.5% more. This is also taking into consideration that my daily supply charge has only increased 5.5%.

So is the cause of this rise purely due to gas generation? Interested to hear any ideas on what may have caused it.

[abc]

I'll give you three guesses to what might have caused global gas prices to rise...

[rubberman]

I'll give you three guesses to what might have caused global gas prices to rise...

Well, obviously, it couldn't have been Putin's invasion of Ukraine.

Because if that were the case, the present high prices of electricity would be due to Russia. Not renewables.

[abc]

I'll give you three guesses to what might have caused global gas prices to rise...

Well, obviously, it couldn't have been Putin's invasion of Ukraine.

Because if that were the case, the present high prices of electricity would be due to Russia. Not renewables.

we became more dependent on gas when we shutdown coal

now put 2 and 2 together

[rubberman]

I'll give you three guesses to what might have caused global gas prices to rise...

Well, obviously, it couldn't have been Putin's invasion of Ukraine.

Because if that were the case, the present high prices of electricity would be due to Russia. Not renewables.

we became more dependent on gas when we shutdown coal

now put 2 and 2 together

We are a massive gas producer. Gas should be cheaper. We could have had domestic use reserves. But we didn't. Not sure how one can blame renewables for policy failure when we produce enough gas for it to be cheap.

As for shutting down coal. Yep. We've had major failures and "maintenance " problems. Also a factor in high prices. It's almost as if coal isn't as reliable as an energy source...meaning the sooner we lose reliance on coal, the better.

So. So far. Reasons for high prices: Putin's invasion of Ukraine, lack of gas reservation policy, coal plants becoming less reliable as they age.

None if which implicates renewables.

[SBD]

I'll give you three guesses to what might have caused global gas prices to rise...

Well, obviously, it couldn't have been Putin's invasion of Ukraine.

Because if that were the case, the present high prices of electricity would be due to Russia. Not renewables.

we became more dependent on gas when we shutdown coal

now put 2 and 2 together

Your chart doesn't show 2016 when the Northern Power Station closed, and the price shown declined slightly from the beginning of the chart in January 2019 to about January 2021. I don't see a correlation with shutting down coal in that chart.

[abc]

Well, obviously, it couldn't have been Putin's invasion of Ukraine.

Because if that were the case, the present high prices of electricity would be due to Russia. Not renewables.

we became more dependent on gas when we shutdown coal

now put 2 and 2 together

We are a massive gas producer. Gas should be cheaper. We could have had domestic use reserves. But we didn't. Not sure how one can blame renewables for policy failure when we produce enough gas for it to be cheap.

As for shutting down coal. Yep. We've had major failures and "maintenance " problems. Also a factor in high prices. It's almost as if coal isn't as reliable as an energy source...meaning the sooner we lose reliance on coal, the better.

So. So far. Reasons for high prices: Putin's invasion of Ukraine, lack of gas reservation policy, coal plants becoming less reliable as they age.

None if which implicates renewables.

world gas prices affect gas prices worldwide as the market is global... if there's a shortage O/S our domestic gas prices go up

this is the same for all commodities

[abc]

Well, obviously, it couldn't have been Putin's invasion of Ukraine.

Because if that were the case, the present high prices of electricity would be due to Russia. Not renewables.

we became more dependent on gas when we shutdown coal

now put 2 and 2 together

Your chart doesn't show 2016 when the Northern Power Station closed, and the price shown declined slightly from the beginning of the chart in January 2019 to about January 2021. I don't see a correlation with shutting down coal in that chart.

oh boy...

I think you need to go back and read the book again from the beginning

[Waewick]

Well, obviously, it couldn't have been Putin's invasion of Ukraine.

Because if that were the case, the present high prices of electricity would be due to Russia. Not renewables.

we became more dependent on gas when we shutdown coal

now put 2 and 2 together

Your chart doesn't show 2016 when the Northern Power Station closed, and the price shown declined slightly from the beginning of the chart in January 2019 to about January 2021. I don't see a correlation with shutting down coal in that chart.

You can summarise why we have high powerr prices fairly easily

We had, for a decade an Govt that was ideologically anti Renewables and too incompetent to deliver anything else.

Its attempt to build a gas powered station, despite the market not wanting to be involved resulted in the disaster that is snowy 2.0.

We are now left with aging coal fired generation that continues to deliver high cost energy.

The same party is now trying to tie us into higher prices by building Nuclear Power that no investors would touch.

[rev]

Mmmhh, apparently anything that isn't renewable, is costly, and everything renewable is apparently free...