SA Economy

[rev]

If I need to buy 100,000 cans of tomatoes, I can either go to the shop and pay the retail price that people who buy 1 or 2 cans pay. Or I can go to the people who make cans of tomatoes and try to negotiate a better price.

Seems reasonable to me

This is a situation created by governments. It is not reasonable to then throw it back at consumers be they households or businesses and say go sort it out.
Households don't have the capacity to sort it out them selves, and businesses having to do it, well those costs get passed on to consumers, the same consumers who are strapped for cash already.
It makes an already miserable economic situation even worse.

Consumers cut back on spending because things become more expensive.
Businesses cut back staff because their turn over drops.
Producers start cutting back staff because their turn over drops.
Producers then start to go under.

The article you linked to and emphasised was about Nippy's and their electricity usage.

Nippy's, as a company, would have supply agreements in place with all sorts of suppliers for a multitude of things. I guarantee that the price they pay for 1kg of oranges is much cheaper than anything you or I could ever get. ie: they've negotiated a price with a supplier of oranges.

What Stephen Mulligan is suggesting in the article is that Nippys negotiate an energy supply agreement directly with either an energy retailer or energy supplier, exactly as they would have done with their orange supplier. This has the potential to give them a price than is lower than would otherwise be available.

Nippy's would use 100,000(??) oranges a year, this would give them an advantage when negotiating with an orange supplier. If you or I went to the same orange supplier and tried to buy 4 oranges for the same price we'd likely be laughed out the door.

If Nippy's are using 100,000 units of electricity, they would have much more bargaining power with a retailer/supplier to negotiate a price than you or I would have if we're using 4 units of electricity.

BHP have done this with Neoen. They've signed a contract directly with the electricity generator which I presume would give them electricity at a lower price than they would otherwise get if they were buying it from a retailer.

Buy in bulk and save. Buy direct from a supplier rather than a retailer and save even more. It's pretty simple stuff.

I see you missed the point.
Ok let's go on with your point.
Should Nippy's also negotiate sewerage costs and water supply charges as well?
Perhaps council rates?

If this is going to be the new norm for utilities and services, which you seem to think it should, should there be tax cuts? If not, why not?

[rubberman]

When ETSA was privatised, divided and sold off, most of those privatised bits legally could charge whatever the market could bear. So they do. Further, as private companies they can negotiate special deals with bigger customers. So they do.

Councils can only do that if their local ratepayers agree.

Government owned Corporations can only do it if their owner, the State Government agrees. However, it is possible.

Now, funnily enough, in the past, separate prices for water (and power) were negotiated for large customers in SA. This went back to the time of Sir Thomas Playford.

Poster Southaussie94 is 100% correct here.

[rev]

And another one..

South Australian bakery Vili’s set to raise prices on all products after power bill hike
Iconic South Australian bakery Vili’s is set to raise prices on all their products after a significant increase to their electricity bill.
Douglas Smith
and
Kathryn Bermingham
2 min read
September 9, 2024 - 3:35PM

Beloved South Australian institution Vili’s bakery will be forced to increase the price of its pies and pasties after being hit with an overnight 18 per cent increase to its power bills.

Already struggling with the increased cost of meat and staff wages, the family-owned business, which has been operating for the past 56 years, said the bill hike will severely impact its bottom line.

Vili’s attempted to negotiate a new power contract via a broker and was quoted increases as high as 36 per cent before securing a 18 per cent rise, equating to an extra $8500 per month for electricity.

Vili’s general manager Peter Utry said the cost-of-living crisis was affecting “all aspects of the business”.

“We work hard to minimise our costs, but when your contract ends and you go to market, you can only lock in what is available at that time,” he said.

“Interest rates and inflation are high and a modest wage increase in July, coupled with utility increases and spikes in meat prices means that we have no option but to increase our prices.

“With the wage increases come additional payroll tax charges, which amount to 4.95 per cent on top of our total wage bill. I find it obscure that businesses are taxed for employing people.”

Vili’s, which employs around 350 staff throughout the business, said they would continue to deliver the “high standards” customers expected from their products.

It comes after drinks manufacturer Nippy’s revealed its monthly electricity bill more than doubled in a year despite the business using fewer power hours.

Opposition Leader Vincent Tarzia said family and small businesses across SA were “really doing it tough” in the current climate.

“Vili’s, Nippy’s, Drakes Supermarkets, Seely International – not only are they loved SA brands, but they employ many thousands of South Australians,” he said.

“The Labor government must do more to protect small business and jobs. South Australia has the highest electricity prices in the country.

“Couple that with the ramping crisis, the housing crisis, GP payroll taxes and rising grocery bills and we have a recipe for economic disaster.”

Mr Tarzia said a Liberal government would wind back payroll tax in an effort to reduce costs for business.

Treasurer Stephen Mullighan said high electricity prices were the result of policy failures at “both national and state level dating back many years”.

“The state government has no direct control over setting electricity prices, with the structure of energy contracts, including fees, tariffs and any discounts, decided by individual retailers and we encourage businesses to negotiate with their retailers,” he said.

“We are providing more relief to small businesses with grants of up to $50,000 available to help reduce energy bills, under Round 2 of our $154 million Economic Recovery Fund.”

Mr Mullighan said SA was the “lowest taxing state on the mainland”, and the “best place in the nation” to do business, “according to the Business Council of Australia.

https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/subscrib ... nt-1-SCORE

[rubberman]

Tarzia is a bit cheeky. It's the Olsen Liberal Government that sold off ETSA, meaning that the SA Government no longer owns power assets.

But, according to Tarzia, it's the Labor Government's fault?

Ok. So, a political statement from a politician. However, the problems of power prices aren't going to be solved by political misdirection. Tarzia's party won't accept price control, and it won't accept re-establishing ETSA, so this is just political posturing.

The fact is that SA wholesale electricity prices are mid-range for Australia. So, if we are paying more at the retail level then, IF it's like any other retail product, then it's got nothing to do with governments, it's the market at work. If, on the other hand, it's an essential service, then it should come back into Government hands. However, without the agreement of Tarzia and his party, that cannot happen.

So, Mr Tarzia. Are you going to support the government moving into electricity retail markets? Yes, or no?

[claybro]

Tarzia is a bit cheeky. It's the Olsen Liberal Government that sold off ETSA, meaning that the SA Government no longer owns power assets.

But, according to Tarzia, it's the Labor Government's fault?

Ok. So, a political statement from a politician. However, the problems of power prices aren't going to be solved by political misdirection. Tarzia's party won't accept price control, and it won't accept re-establishing ETSA, so this is just political posturing.

The fact is that SA wholesale electricity prices are mid-range for Australia. So, if we are paying more at the retail level then, IF it's like any other retail product, then it's got nothing to do with governments, it's the market at work. If, on the other hand, it's an essential service, then it should come back into Government hands. However, without the agreement of Tarzia and his party, that cannot happen.

So, Mr Tarzia. Are you going to support the government moving into electricity retail markets? Yes, or no?

Agree with this. The Libs will not win an argument on power. Not Ever. They sold ETSA, they agree with the transition to renewables, the baulk at government control. Either put up or shut up. Not off to a good start Mr Tarzia.

[rev]

Liberals sold it, so why don't Labor buy it back? They've been in power for the majority since ETSA was sold.
Since we're playing the blame game and the troll keeps circling back to his getup talking points (or whatever group the radical left has centered on these days, regardless it's all the same unwashed rubbish).
When was it sold? 1998/1999? A good quarter of a century ago.

Power bills haven't sky rocketed to unsustainable/unmanageable levels until NOW. Labor could have steered the ship in a different direction.

Both sides have a share of the blame for the current state of affairs.

[rubberman]

Weatherill restarted ETSA and bought generators.

It was immediately sold by the Liberals.

So, unless Tarzia and company agree. It can't happen.

If you sell something you don't control it anymore. The Liberals sold ETSA, governments in SA don't control it.

How hard is this to understand?

As for name calling?

[abc]

Tarzia is a bit cheeky. It's the Olsen Liberal Government that sold off ETSA, meaning that the SA Government no longer owns power assets.

But, according to Tarzia, it's the Labor Government's fault?

Ok. So, a political statement from a politician. However, the problems of power prices aren't going to be solved by political misdirection. Tarzia's party won't accept price control, and it won't accept re-establishing ETSA, so this is just political posturing.

The fact is that SA wholesale electricity prices are mid-range for Australia. So, if we are paying more at the retail level then, IF it's like any other retail product, then it's got nothing to do with governments, it's the market at work. If, on the other hand, it's an essential service, then it should come back into Government hands. However, without the agreement of Tarzia and his party, that cannot happen.

So, Mr Tarzia. Are you going to support the government moving into electricity retail markets? Yes, or no?

keep cheering for team red no matter what

[rev]

What happened a quarter of a century isn't the issue. What party did do/didn't do what in the last quarter century isn't the issue either.

The issue is what is happening TODAY, and what is being done and not being done TODAY, and what effect it is having and will have on the state as a whole that is the issue.
Not every thread has to turn into a pissing match between Liberal/Labor trolls.

And this is where our politicians fail. They focus on the past, playing the blame game, because they know their dumb ass minions will follow suit.
They don't focus on the issues at hand, and what can be done to fix them.

The electorate, most of which is made up of every day ordinary people not pricks who think it's a working family's fault for having high power prices because they cant afford solar & battery setups, don't give a toss about what party did what a quarter of a century ago.
What people care about is TODAY. What is happening today, what is affecting them today, and what is going to be done to fix what is affecting them today and help them.

[rubberman]

What happened a quarter of a century isn't the issue. What party did do/didn't do what in the last quarter century isn't the issue either.

The issue is what is happening TODAY, and what is being done and not being done TODAY, and what effect it is having and will have on the state as a whole that is the issue.
Not every thread has to turn into a pissing match between Liberal/Labor trolls.

And this is where our politicians fail. They focus on the past, playing the blame game, because they know their dumb ass minions will follow suit.
They don't focus on the issues at hand, and what can be done to fix them.

The electorate, most of which is made up of every day ordinary people not pricks who think it's a working family's fault for having high power prices because they cant afford solar & battery setups, don't give a toss about what party did what a quarter of a century ago.
What people care about is TODAY. What is happening today, what is affecting them today, and what is going to be done to fix what is affecting them today and help them.

TODAY, the power infrastructure of SA is owned privately. What has it got to do with politicians?

If you sell the family car, do you complain about the cost of taxis? If you sell the house, don't complain about rental prices.

Electricity generation is a private industry selling in a retail store near you. Just like Myers. Don't expect the government to hold your hand just because you don't like the prices.

Now, the REASON for going back in history is to stop people repeating mistakes. For example, if anyone ignores the history of privatisation in SA, then they are likely to suggest that the government gets into the market to stabilise prices. However, once they know the history that the Liberals immediately reverse that, they realise it's a stupid thing to do: spend hundreds of millions, only to have it wasted a few years later. Not smart.

End point. Power assets are privately owned. Those companies, legitimately aim to maximise profits. That means high prices. This is the free market at work.

[rev]

Yet more blah blah, predictable. Our economy could completely implode and the troll will still be babbling on about Liberal this Liberal that stuck in his little ideological bubble. F# me this would be hilarious if it wasn't so sad.

[rubberman]

Yet more blah blah, predictable. Our economy could completely implode and the troll will still be babbling on about Liberal this Liberal that stuck in his little ideological bubble. F# me this would be hilarious if it wasn't so sad.

I think this speaks for itself.

[abc]

I took a walk around town this afternoon. I don't care what anyone says, this place is in a recession. There might be a shortage of housing but there's an absolute glut of commercial property. For Lease signs are everywhere. Homeless people sleeping in nooks. Its far worse than the 90's which was a period when the government didn't have any money for public works but small businesses were still doing okay. Today its the opposite thanks to the GST and SA being somewhat of a parasite on the rest of Australia, there are a couple of major public works projects going on which mask the reality of the economy.

[rubberman]

I took a walk around town this afternoon. I don't care what anyone says, this place is in a recession. There might be a shortage of housing but there's an absolute glut of commercial property. For Lease signs are everywhere. Homeless people sleeping in nooks. Its far worse than the 90's which was a period when the government didn't have any money for public works but small businesses were still doing okay. Today its the opposite thanks to the GST and SA being somewhat of a parasite on the rest of Australia, there are a couple of major public works projects going on which mask the reality of the economy.

A lot of people transitioned to Work From Home during the Covid period and never came back. As leases expire, a lot of companies have the choice of requiring staff to come back to the office, or save money by renting a smaller area. Obviously some companies want everyone back. That's fair. However, any company that's made WFH workable in the past four years is going to reduce its office footprint. So, lots of area to let. Then, with fewer working in the CBD, food and coffee places are going to struggle.

[SouthAussie94]

What happened a quarter of a century isn't the issue. What party did do/didn't do what in the last quarter century isn't the issue either.

The issue is what is happening TODAY, and what is being done and not being done TODAY, and what effect it is having and will have on the state as a whole that is the issue.
Not every thread has to turn into a pissing match between Liberal/Labor trolls.

And this is where our politicians fail. They focus on the past, playing the blame game, because they know their dumb ass minions will follow suit.
They don't focus on the issues at hand, and what can be done to fix them.

The electorate, most of which is made up of every day ordinary people not pricks who think it's a working family's fault for having high power prices because they cant afford solar & battery setups, don't give a toss about what party did what a quarter of a century ago.
What people care about is TODAY. What is happening today, what is affecting them today, and what is going to be done to fix what is affecting them today and help them.

What would you do?