The SA Politics Thread

[rubberman]

The abortion amendment bill was defeated in the Legislative Council.

Good.

[Waewick]

The abortion amendment bill was defeated in the Legislative Council.

Good.

Its crazy that this is back, LNP in QLD doing the same thing.

[Will]

The reason this topic keeps coming back is that some people feel uncomfortable with the idea of killing a baby at a stage of development whereupon it is viable to exist out of utero independent of the mother. It is no longer a ‘clump of cells’ and is capable of feeling pain.

[abc]

The abortion amendment bill was defeated in the Legislative Council.

Good.

why good? you're happy with 7 month term babies being murdered?

[Waewick]

The reason this topic keeps coming back is that some people feel uncomfortable with the idea of killing a baby at a stage of development whereupon it is viable to exist out of utero independent of the mother. It is no longer a ‘clump of cells’ and is capable of feeling pain.

The uncomfortableness usually comes from ignorance.

The vast majority of abortions occur well before then and the ones that occur late are done for good reason (like the foetus is likely to be born with issues that means it will die shortly after being born). Only a lunatic thinks women are waiting to late into a pregnancy and getting an abortion for lifestyle reasons.

[gnrc_louis]

The reason this topic keeps coming back is that some people feel uncomfortable with the idea of killing a baby at a stage of development whereupon it is viable to exist out of utero independent of the mother. It is no longer a ‘clump of cells’ and is capable of feeling pain.

It exists because large numbers of evangelical Christians have joined the Liberal Party in recent years who want to bring American culture war issues to Australian politics. There also remains a small amount of hardcore Catholics in the Labor Party who similarly oppose abortion access.

It is not an issue given much thought by most Australians and abortion access remains broadly supported in the Australian community.

[Will]

The reason this topic keeps coming back is that some people feel uncomfortable with the idea of killing a baby at a stage of development whereupon it is viable to exist out of utero independent of the mother. It is no longer a ‘clump of cells’ and is capable of feeling pain.

The uncomfortableness usually comes from ignorance.

The vast majority of abortions occur well before then and the ones that occur late are done for good reason (like the foetus is likely to be born with issues that means it will die shortly after being born). Only a lunatic thinks women are waiting to late into a pregnancy and getting an abortion for lifestyle reasons.

So yeah, i get why people would be uncomfortable if they choose to believe women are out to get pregnant and get late term abortions for fun..

It’s interesting that you infer I am ignorant. My position about late term abortions only developed through study and the accomplishment of 5 degrees in both medicine and health sciences. Learning human embryology and undertaking placements in both obstetrics and neonatology made me more and more uncomfortable about late term abortions. I increasingly found it conflicting how in the same hospital, staff could be valiantly trying to keep alive a premature baby, yet in another room, discarding another without any care even if the abortion was botched and the baby was born alive.

And despite your claim, women (albeit a small number) are having late term abortions for ‘lifestyle’ reasons.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-10-16/ ... ntent=link

[Waewick]

The reason this topic keeps coming back is that some people feel uncomfortable with the idea of killing a baby at a stage of development whereupon it is viable to exist out of utero independent of the mother. It is no longer a ‘clump of cells’ and is capable of feeling pain.

The uncomfortableness usually comes from ignorance.

The vast majority of abortions occur well before then and the ones that occur late are done for good reason (like the foetus is likely to be born with issues that means it will die shortly after being born). Only a lunatic thinks women are waiting to late into a pregnancy and getting an abortion for lifestyle reasons.

So yeah, i get why people would be uncomfortable if they choose to believe women are out to get pregnant and get late term abortions for fun..

It’s interesting that you infer I am ignorant. My position about late term abortions only developed through study and the accomplishment of 5 degrees in both medicine and health sciences. Learning human embryology and undertaking placements in both obstetrics and neonatology made me more and more uncomfortable about late term abortions. I increasingly found it conflicting how in the same hospital, staff could be valiantly trying to keep alive a premature baby, yet in another room, discarding another without any care even if the abortion was botched and the baby was born alive.

And despite your claim, women (albeit a small number) are having late term abortions for ‘lifestyle’ reasons.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-10-16/ ... ntent=link

Oh you appear to be much worse than ignorant.

Perhaps instead of creating your emotive fan fiction you can concentrate on creating a world where that ladies story, instead of being used by people like you against other women, could help build a a world where it her economic position wouldn't matter and her and her child would have the opportunity to thrive.

[Will]

Wow. How pathetic. Instead of debating with facts, you were quick to resort to a personal attack. To also dismiss my lived experience and professional experiences as a ‘fan fiction’…..

Why can’t you debate the topic with facts? Or is it, that you have none, and your position here is solely based on ideology?

I posted that article to counter your earlier claim that ‘only lunatics’ think that women have late term abortions for lifestyle reasons. There was nothing wrong with the baby in that case. This is my point.
[/quote]

[Waewick]

Wow. How pathetic. Instead of debating with facts, you were quick to resort to a personal attack. To also dismiss my lived experience and professional experiences as a ‘fan fiction’…..

Why can’t you debate the topic with facts? Or is it, that you have none, and your position here is solely based on ideology?

I posted that article to counter your earlier claim that ‘only lunatics’ think that women have late term abortions for lifestyle reasons. There was nothing wrong with the baby in that case. This is my point.

Pathetic, lol I see pathetic.

That article is about a lady who tried to avoid getting pregnant for legitimate health reasons, that failed, and her doctors agreed it was unsafe for her to continue.

To use that as an example of women who just get pregnant and get late-term abortions for lifesfyle reasons is horrendous.

There are plenty of facts that point to when the majority of abortions happen and the unusualness of late term abortions (which are overwhelming due to medical reason)

The fact you picked an article like you did to claim it was just for lifestyle reasons reflects the problem with ideology here.

I do hope your lived experience isn't true, for the sake of our health system.

[rubberman]

Wow. How pathetic. Instead of debating with facts, you were quick to resort to a personal attack. To also dismiss my lived experience and professional experiences as a ‘fan fiction’…..

Why can’t you debate the topic with facts? Or is it, that you have none, and your position here is solely based on ideology?

I posted that article to counter your earlier claim that ‘only lunatics’ think that women have late term abortions for lifestyle reasons. There was nothing wrong with the baby in that case. This is my point.

[/quote]

What is the position of the RANZCOG on this legislation? It was quoted last night during the debate.

I'm not doing to take the opinion of some random person on the internet claiming to argue from authority.

As this is a political thread, if the MP concerned misquoted the RANZCOG, that would be easy for you to demonstrate IF you are as qualified as you say. And a serious misleading of Parliament.

Go for it. Otherwise, you are just someone dissembling on the internet.

[Will]

Wow. How pathetic. Instead of debating with facts, you were quick to resort to a personal attack. To also dismiss my lived experience and professional experiences as a ‘fan fiction’…..

Why can’t you debate the topic with facts? Or is it, that you have none, and your position here is solely based on ideology?

I posted that article to counter your earlier claim that ‘only lunatics’ think that women have late term abortions for lifestyle reasons. There was nothing wrong with the baby in that case. This is my point.

What is the position of the RANZCOG on this legislation? It was quoted last night during the debate.

I'm not doing to take the opinion of some random person on the internet claiming to argue from authority.

As this is a political thread, if the MP concerned misquoted the RANZCOG, that would be easy for you to demonstrate IF you are as qualified as you say. And a serious misleading of Parliament.

Go for it. Otherwise, you are just someone dissembling on the internet.
[/quote]

I have never stated that I am speaking on behalf of a whole profession or on behalf of a medical college.
I have been on this forum since 2004, and those here long enough will remember that initially I was very left wing. I previously was very pro-choice; no questions asked.
I discussed my experiences solely to explain how I arrived at my position. My opinions are my opinions alone.

I do not want to ban abortion, or re-introduce it into the criminal code.
I am an atheist. I do not enter this discussion from a place of religious dogma.
I am simply uncomfortable, with viable (over 24 weeks), otherwise healthy babies being killed for situational or social reasons. I am also uncomfortable with the lack of medical care offered to those babies that are born alive.
That is all.

[Waewick]

Wow. How pathetic. Instead of debating with facts, you were quick to resort to a personal attack. To also dismiss my lived experience and professional experiences as a ‘fan fiction’…..

Why can’t you debate the topic with facts? Or is it, that you have none, and your position here is solely based on ideology?

I posted that article to counter your earlier claim that ‘only lunatics’ think that women have late term abortions for lifestyle reasons. There was nothing wrong with the baby in that case. This is my point.

What is the position of the RANZCOG on this legislation? It was quoted last night during the debate.

I'm not doing to take the opinion of some random person on the internet claiming to argue from authority.

As this is a political thread, if the MP concerned misquoted the RANZCOG, that would be easy for you to demonstrate IF you are as qualified as you say. And a serious misleading of Parliament.

Go for it. Otherwise, you are just someone dissembling on the internet.

I have never stated that I am speaking on behalf of a whole profession or on behalf of a medical college.
I have been on this forum since 2004, and those here long enough will remember that initially I was very left wing. I previously was very pro-choice; no questions asked.
I discussed my experiences solely to explain how I arrived at my position. My opinions are my opinions alone.

I do not want to ban abortion, or re-introduce it into the criminal code.
I am an atheist. I do not enter this discussion from a place of religious dogma.
I am simply uncomfortable, with viable (over 24 weeks), otherwise healthy babies being killed for situational or social reasons. I am also uncomfortable with the lack of medical care offered to those babies that are born alive.
That is all.[/quote]
[/quote]

Code: Select all

I find that all very surprising given your takeout of the article you posted.

I still think our focus needs to be elsewhere rather than demonising suffering women.

[Will]

Wow. How pathetic. Instead of debating with facts, you were quick to resort to a personal attack. To also dismiss my lived experience and professional experiences as a ‘fan fiction’…..

Why can’t you debate the topic with facts? Or is it, that you have none, and your position here is solely based on ideology?

I posted that article to counter your earlier claim that ‘only lunatics’ think that women have late term abortions for lifestyle reasons. There was nothing wrong with the baby in that case. This is my point.

Pathetic, lol I see pathetic.

That article is about a lady who tried to avoid getting pregnant for legitimate health reasons, that failed, and her doctors agreed it was unsafe for her to continue.

To use that as an example of women who just get pregnant and get late-term abortions for lifesfyle reasons is horrendous.

There are plenty of facts that point to when the majority of abortions happen and the unusualness of late term abortions (which are overwhelming due to medical reason)

The fact you picked an article like you did to claim it was just for lifestyle reasons reflects the problem with ideology here.

I do hope your lived experience isn't true, for the sake of our health system.

OK fair enough.

Using the word "lifestyle" here is unkind.

I apologise if I triggered or offended you.

I was using the case to highlight that with current legislation, healthy and otherwise viable babies can be aborted. My unkind choice of words still does not change this.

[Waewick]

Wow. How pathetic. Instead of debating with facts, you were quick to resort to a personal attack. To also dismiss my lived experience and professional experiences as a ‘fan fiction’…..

Why can’t you debate the topic with facts? Or is it, that you have none, and your position here is solely based on ideology?

I posted that article to counter your earlier claim that ‘only lunatics’ think that women have late term abortions for lifestyle reasons. There was nothing wrong with the baby in that case. This is my point.

Pathetic, lol I see pathetic.

That article is about a lady who tried to avoid getting pregnant for legitimate health reasons, that failed, and her doctors agreed it was unsafe for her to continue.

To use that as an example of women who just get pregnant and get late-term abortions for lifesfyle reasons is horrendous.

There are plenty of facts that point to when the majority of abortions happen and the unusualness of late term abortions (which are overwhelming due to medical reason)

The fact you picked an article like you did to claim it was just for lifestyle reasons reflects the problem with ideology here.

I do hope your lived experience isn't true, for the sake of our health system.

OK fair enough.

Using the word "lifestyle" here is unkind.

I apologise if I triggered or offended you.

I was using the case to highlight that with current legislation, healthy and otherwise viable babies can be aborted. My unkind choice of words still does not change this.

Its not really about triggering to honest.

I also don't want foetus's aborted needlessly, but lets focus on legitimate problems.

Anyway, play on.